Couppy Posted August 9, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 135 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 82 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/27/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 9, 2012 Carlos, I feel you. When I began to desire getting close to God, I too wondered these same things. ... One other thought Gary... You came to realize that your motive in wanting to see the miraculous was to test God. Having come to realize that you seem to have set aside the desire to see these gifts operate to focus on love. Which is all well and good in one sense (if indeed that is the case) but I would say that if we come to realize that our hearts are in the wrong place...the better and more godly thing to do...would be to change our motives but still seek the Lord on how to do the sign gifts out of a pure and godly motive. If our motives ARE pure and desirous of seeking His glory and the furtherance of His Kingdom but we see nothing happen of the sort that He empowered His disciples to do...my question has to do with why not? Assume for a minute that my motive is pure and godly. I see no reason to believe it is not though I grant you that something may be lurking deep down inside that is not pure...the Lord will reveal that in good time if that is so...but assume for a minute that my motive is absolutely godly. Why do I not see more sign gifts occur? Why not? Is it God's fault? I mean is He really the Living Lord? Powerful and able and willing to do whatever He did when on Earth through His Body today? Or is it mine? Well...I think it's pretty obvious that the problem is me. So if that is the case...then what do I do to change? How do I repent from who knows what to be able to become a vessel through whom God will work through me (through us) to do what Jesus did while on Earth? Carlos Hi Carlos, All you have to do is seek a closer relationship with God and leave the Holy Spirit to work through you. I believe that the manifestation of God through us goes beyond our pure motives. It is a combination of many factors including recognising the gifts we have, our knowledge of the workings and operations of the Holy Spirit, recognising how God relates to us and works in us, and a few other things that only God knows about. The first step you have to ask yourself is what gifts of the Holy Spirit do you have? These gifts develop as we continue to use them but we have to first acknowledge that we have them. God deals with us as individuals and the operation of these gifts differ from individual to individual even though we see them as the same gift. How does God prompt you to do something? The gifts of healing is a coveted gift. We can develop this gift by stepping out in faith and praying for others e.g. if they have a headache, stomach ache etc. It does not necessary have to be something dramatic. As we continue to pray our faith becomes stronger and our understanding of the Holy Spirit increases. You never know what God is going to do through you next. Couppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlos123 Posted August 9, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,015 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 97 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/12/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Well said Couppy (interesting name you have there). Thanks for sharing! Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted August 9, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 9, 2012 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted August 9, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 9, 2012 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted August 10, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Carlos, Hbr 2:4 God also bearing [them] witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? God confirmed those who preached the truth. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlos123 Posted August 10, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,015 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 97 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/12/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 Carlos, Hbr 2:4 God also bearing [them] witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? God confirmed those who preached the truth. Gary That's a good verse Gary. One I have never thought about in connection with this topic. I believe what you say is true. That the verse is saying that God used signs and wonders and various miracles to confirm that those who preached the Gospel were speaking the truth. It is no different I think than when Elijah called on God to make himself real to turn the hearts of Israel back to Himself. 1 Kings 18:36 (AKJV) And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that you are God in Israel, and that I am your servant, and that I have done all these things at your word. Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that you are the LORD God, and that you have turned their heart back again. Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench. And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God. Today, without such demonstrations of God's LIVING reality, how are people who hear the Gospel to know that both the Gospel message itself and God are true and real and not just a figment of our imagination? Just because it's in the bible, a book albeit a book with God's inspired words, doesn't make it the truth in people's minds. Where is the evidence? That what this book says is the truth and not just made up fairy tales? I mean I have always, in sharing the Gospel with others, assumed that the words themselves would somehow bring about a conviction of truth to the minds of those hearing. And sometimes that does happen. But biblically speaking in the New Testament at least, the main evidence for the truthfulness of the Gospel, was not the Gospel message itself in what it says but rather the signs and wonders and miracles which accompanied the preaching of the Gospel. By the way for anyone that is interested one of the best books I ever read on this topic is called Healing the Sick by T.L. Osborne. Whether or not you agree with all that T.L. Osborne ever said about this...it is well worth reading his book to gain some insight from a person who apparently lived out what Jesus said about all this in his campaigns in Africa. I do not vouch for everything T.L. Osborne said but I highly recommend you read his book. I found a link to it at https://docs.google....8V5FKsBfO_sVEWw Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlos123 Posted August 10, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,015 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 97 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/12/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 Here is something very interesting that T.L. Osborne said... The most common tradition is the worn-out statement: The age of miracles is past. For this to be true, there would have to be a total absence of miracles. Even one miracle would prove that the age of miracles is not past. Anyone who claims that the age of miracles is past denies the need, the privileges, and the benefits of prayer. For God to hear and answer prayer, whether the petition is for a postage stamp or for the healing of a paralytic, is a miracle. If prayer brings an answer, that answer is a miracle. If there are no miracles, there is no reason for faith. If there are no miracles, prayer is mockery and only ignorance would cause anyone to either pray or expect an answer. God cannot answer prayer without a miracle. If we pray at all, we should expect that prayer to be answered. If that prayer is answered, God has done it; and if God has answered prayer, He has performed something supernatural. That is a miracle. To deny miracles today is to make a mockery of prayer today. That makes a lot of sense to me. Dictionary.com's first definition for "miracle" is... an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause. God answering prayer definitely qualifies as a miracle in that sense I think. Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlos123 Posted August 10, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,015 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 97 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/12/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 Oh...one other tid bit. The greatest book I ever read, bar none, on healings in our modern day was Anointed for Burial by Todd Burke. Amazon has one copy for sale I think. It's an out of print book but if anyone EVER is able to get a copy of this book...buy it! It will greatly challenge your thinking regarding whether miracles of the kind that happened in Acts can happen today. It did mine. It tells the story of the church in Cambodia just before the fall of Vietnam. Todd Burke apparently turned his back on Christ and went off into the new age movement from what I understand after the death of his 11 year old son. I cannot confirm that but that is what I read on the internet. But don't let that become in your head a reason to discount what he wrote about happening in the book. What happened in the book was not all about him. It was about the simple people of Vietnam believing God and taking Him at His word and telling of what happened. Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted August 10, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 10, 2012 Wow! Your post touched on a lot of things I have felt in my life Zemke. You see the reason I posted this thread is because I wanted to discuss in a roundabout way how I might somehow be able to fit into a church somewhere. Not directly mind you but indirectly. I believe God has gifted me to be a prophet. I prayed for this gift years ago and everything since has indicated to me that I have this gift. I thought you were somehow familiar Carlos and I looked up a thread I thought I saw you in and it was the one where the op is wondering about being a prophet and it turns out that person is you I quoted a response from that thread where you state you believe that God has called you to be a prophet. So now we have these two threads where you believe you are called of God to be a prophet and now this one where you want to have the gift of healing. You state that you prayed for the gift of prophecy and you believe that God gave that gift to you. There are so few people willing to just follow the Lord whether they have a gift of special kind or not but a very popular theme in these threads are people who think they are a prophet and they disagree with everyone that disagrees with them. Frankly, I wasted my time answering you simply because I did not say the things you want to hear. I still maintain that deception is the word that should be used most often when people believe they have a special super duper calling of God to be some prophet, healer what have you Make of it what you will, I now understand more than I did when I first responded, so I am removing myself from the dialogue I say that fascitiously but most Christian prayers are not much different than that if you ask me. By our actions and the results of our prayers it is evident that we don't really trust God for much at all. We trust our bank accounts, and doctors, and man and leave the LIVING GOD on the backburner in really trusting Him to BE the LIVING GOD in our midst. I will say again, with regards to the quote above from you Carlos and it is this: I think you do NOT understand what it would take to have the gifts you believe are yours. You would not be condemning every Christian's prayers and whining about it if you did have the gift you think you have. Your words are not merciful, edifying or any way of any use to the Body of Christ. ALL things a true prophet would exemplify. Everyone wants miracles and anointing and I tell you...most people who think they have these things want them for the wrong reason. The devil comes as an angel of light. But I know I can say that till the cows come home and no one is going to listen. Perhaps you are speaking of yourself in the quote above, but you do not do service to any Christian who goes before God and knows they are in His presence and then they come along and read what you wrote. I am so very very worn out with the complaining and what gifts people think they have. We should be praying for God's mercy and not COMPLAINING and examining our puny gifts and wondering if we are special Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 1 Kings 18:36 (AKJV) And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that you are God in Israel, and that I am your servant, and that I have done all these things at your word. Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that you are the LORD God, and that you have turned their heart back again. Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench. And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God. Today, without such demonstrations of God's LIVING reality, how are people who hear the Gospel to know that both the Gospel message itself and God are true and real and not just a figment of our imagination? Just because it's in the bible, a book albeit a book with God's inspired words, doesn't make it the truth in people's minds. Where is the evidence? That what this book says is the truth and not just made up fairy tales? I mean I have always, in sharing the Gospel with others, assumed that the words themselves would somehow bring about a conviction of truth to the minds of those hearing. And sometimes that does happen. But biblically speaking in the New Testament at least, the main evidence for the truthfulness of the Gospel, was not the Gospel message itselfin what it says but rather the signs and wonders and miracles which accompanied the preaching of the Gospel. Your signs are coming.......be patient. Matthew 24 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 2 Thessalonians 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, Revelation 13 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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