The ultimate proof of Biblical creation and God

[ollkiller]

Fallen, unfortunately, you do sound extremely angry/bitter.

Angry at God.

How many more times is someone going to say he's angry at God. He dosen't believe in God. Therefore how can he be angry at something he dosen't believe in.

Just because someone does not believe the same as you does not mean they are full of hate.

[Guest HisG]

Fallen, unfortunately, you do sound extremely angry/bitter.

Angry at God.

How many more times is someone going to say he's angry at God. He dosen't believe in God. Therefore how can he be angry at something he dosen't believe in.

Just because someone does not believe the same as you does not mean they are full of hate.

You don't have to believe in God to be angry at Him...didn't you know that?

I see it all the time.

Folk who profess to unbelief in any Supernatural higher power - oh but mention God of the Hebrew Bible and they have a lot to say about Him.(usually heated) .the One they profess to not believing in.

Many atheists also think they are an authority on the subject of God and have all the answers....funny that!

[Guest HisG]

You don't have to believe in God to be angry at Him...didn't you know that?

Let's pretend that "GOD" is at someone's address. The way in which one would release their anger towards "GOD" is by sending a letter expressing your anger. The problem is that I don't have this address because of my lack of belief. I don't know where to "direct" my anger to and therefore cannot be angry.

Your sense of humour is astounding!! : )

[Guest HisG]

You don't have to believe in God to be angry at Him...didn't you know that?

HisG, are you suggesting atheists are angry with the idea of God? Personally, I can't say I ever recall being angry at God. A close friend of mine died of cancer some years back. He was a devout Christian and during his illness he became personally angry with God. I mean he was angry at God. He was shouting at him. A person can only do that if for him God is real. It would not be possible for myself to become personally angry with God in that way. You would never find an atheist yelling at God. An atheist could never have an angry outburst at God. You do understand that, right? You don't mean angry in that way. So what do you mean? Could you perhaps explain what you mean by reference to something else. I need an example. I don't follow your meaning.

Yes many Christians have been angry at God. : )

And btw Celsius - you sound like you hold yourself as the standard to atheism...using your own dis-belief as the plumline...

You are one of those that even with proof of anything shoved under your nose, you are most likely to reject it if it doesn't fit with your standard.

I've come across folk like you ALL the time : )

When it boils down to it - hardened atheist or not - when it comes to the crunch...there is a bit of doubt in all atheists..."just in case".....

and don't ask for proof of website etc...you wouldn't believe it even if there was undeniable proof....

your posts reveal that side of you.

(and btw - I'm the product of a single/atheist parent).....

[Guest HisG]

And can you answer me this -

why do atheist parents tell their children that Grandma and Grandpa or Fido or Fluffy have gone to Heaven?

[ollkiller]

Firstly, you haven't given me a sentence's worth of evidence to support this "GOD" thing you so boldly claim exists. Secondly, if you ever manage that, then you still have a whole bunch of work ahead of you. You'll have to show me why Jesus the Christ of Nazareth is the answer and not Ra, Horus, Osiris, Ptah, Mithras, Attis, Adonis, Dionysus, Thor, Loki, Jupiter, Mercury, Venus, Isis, Heracles, Allah, Krishna, Anubis, Ukko, Ishtar, Humbaba, Ah-Puch and Ixchel just to name a few. Lastly, there is absolutely no more reason for me to be angry at any of these than there is for you to be angry at the boogy man for making you wet yourself when you were little. You get it now?

But I have provided you with the argument from design and the argument for a prime mover and you have not refuted either because you can't. You—on the other hand have not presented even your one best reason for disbelieving in God. You obviously have none. Your sophmorish prattle about Thor and Loki really doesn't work in the world of grown-ups. Is that about it for you? You have failed once again.

What you have been reduced to is a bitter person who remains angry at God because He won't play by your rules and you anemic argument that wouldn't even impress a child. You wanted to be an “apologist' and God spanked you and now you are mad.

As regards your argument about where it all started. No one has proof where it started. They have ideas on both sides, god or big bang, but no one really knows.

If your looking for reasons why athiests don't believe in god i'll give ya a few. These would be my friends reasons, a general view from people, some of whom were never religious and some who were religious and lost the faith (which is a very very large percentage of the irish population.)

1. The god that you worship predominately depends on where you were born.

2. There have been hundreds of different gods. Why is this one so important.

3. The particular teachings of a religion are incompatible with the beliefs in the current world, e.g. the implied deviancy of homosexuals.

4. A belief in science and it's explanations for the world and it's origins.

5. The loss of spirituality in the world, which i think personally that religion, not a god, has a lot to answer for.

6. The control of religion over a populas. This would not be a god's fault, but the fault of men, using power to control but nevertheless is a reason many have stopped believing in god.

There are more i'd say but those would be the main reasons. The athiest's i know aren't angry at god. They are more angry at religious people that expect them to live to their set of standards and beliefs, e.g. i wouldn't expect you to live by the koran because your christian.

I'm not saying any of these are right, just they are the main reasons that i see for disbelief.

[ollkiller]

There are more i'd say but those would be the main reasons. The athiest's i know aren't angry at god. They are more angry at religious people that expect them to live to their set of standards and beliefs, e.g. i wouldn't expect you to live by the koran because your christian.

Thanks for your input OK but none of those reasons has any relationship to whether or not God exists - the problems you list are mostly related to the human heart. I personally lack belief in atheism - all humans know intuitively that God exists--many just want their own set of moral standards. But in the end every knee will bow to God.

I do think some of those reasons influence to the person whether or not god exists. But we'll try another reason. People who don't feel a persence of God, in so far as, they have not feel that a god has influenced their life in any way. That to them is evidence that god does not exist. If god exists would they not feel a presence of god. And some of these people are not closed to their being a god, they just have never felt the presence of god.

Do all humans know intuitively that God exists. The only way that could be answered is if every person in the world wasn't taught religion in school and that ain't gonna happen. Also many people i know who don't believe in God have a way better moral code than religious people. Who says which is better. And lastly, every person will bow the knee to god, are you talking about the afterlife because their are many who have died without bowing the knee.

[ollkiller]

People who don't feel a persence of God, in so far as, they have not feel that a god has influenced their life in any way. That to them is evidence that god does not exist. If god exists would they not feel a presence of god. And some of these people are not closed to their being a god, they just have never felt the presence of god.

But how do you know you have never felt God’s presence? Have you heard the ‘good news’ regarding Jesus the Christ? Maybe some folks have had their “consciences seared as with a hot iron” and simply reject God’s influence in their life.

Do all humans know intuitively that God exists.

Yes--without a doubt--you included. You have simply chosen not to believe.

In reply i don't know if i have heard God's persence. But shouldn't I if i have. How have you felt God's persence.

In regards to hearing the good news of Jesus Christ. Heard it every day at school for 14 year's which leads to the other point that you say i have chosen not to believe. Well nearly every child in Ireland that does not believe has chosen not to believe as they were all taught about Jesus Christ. Choosing not to believe does not mean there was something to believe in. From your reasoning as i understand, if i don't believe in God then i am somehow saying there is a God and i choose not to believe in him. That is not the case. For me that would be silly. I hope i'm getting the point across correctly.

Edited October 15, 2012 by ollkiller

[slowpoke55]

. I personally lack belief in atheism

So you're an atheist towards atheism?!?! Lololol! It doesn't get much better than that!

You do understand what atheism means--right? I simply lack belief in atheism--i.e., there are no atheists in a foxhole.

I understand it infintely more than you and anyone else who claims we're "angry" at the thing we don't believe in. Refer to my edited post above.

But I still lack belief in atheists. I have never seen one and I have never felt the presence of an atheist. I have never been to atheist nirvana and touched a golden goose egg. Can you prove your atheists really exists or do you simply believe via deep faith?

Is this a No True Scotsman Fallacy coupled with an argument from ignorance?

You actually feel our presence here don't you, in the sense that we interact with you through text? Don't you form some image that your having a discussion with a human versus a ghost, a rabbit or some product of your mind?

If we're not real enough here, the way to experience the presence of an atheist is to have a meet up with one and touch them.

There is no atheist nirvana or golden egg, atheism isn't even a club, There is nothing calling for burnt animal offerings, idolization, genocide, or asking any adherence to any ideology. No secret handshakes either.

Why are you so angry at atheist?

[slowpoke55]

Easy. I'm an atheist and I exist.

Prove it.

Can you clarify this?

Are you saying that he is not a true atheist?

Or are you calling him a liar?

Or both?