JohnD Posted September 24, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted September 24, 2012 Ever hear of grieving and quenching the Holy Spirit? This is what happens when we sin. If I sin - no! when I sin, I do not lose my salvation. 1 John 1:9 says if I confess my sin I am forgiven. God then removes that sin as far from me as the east is from the west. Then I am right back in fellowship with Him. No loss of salvation there. I say this because I once attended a church that taught loss of salvation. The book of Hebrews was written to - you guessed it - the Hebrews. Many had accepted Jesus and were on the verge of returning to Judaism, thereby rejecting Christ. They were being warned that to return to Judaism was not acceptable. IF I were to lose my salvation for any reason, Christ would have to die again in order for me to be re-saved and that can not happen - He died once for all. So if we were ever saved we are still saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted September 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 25, 2012 Yes we are in agreement here. One thing that concerns me, not on Worthy, because it is hard to establish, but in my "real" life, is the fact that I know people who live "for" God, but do not have Him indwelling. A good example is a person I know who plays in the worship team at church. He is besotted with music and plays very well, and has a wonderful voice. To a person who does not know him well, he looks like the epitome of a spirit filled believer. And yet, knowing him as well as I do, I know he worships the music more than he does the source. He is "working for" God, but is he saved. I cannot say for sure, that is God's sole domain, but do I have my doubts? Yes. That is the difference I see between living "for" God, or living with Him "in" us. Did I explain myself a little better? Yes, you did Fez and thank you for that. I do understand what you are getting at now and I do agree. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjp34652 Posted September 30, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 448 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 156 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) Can a backslidden follower lose salvation? Hebrews 6:4-11 states: 4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, becauseb to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned. 9Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation. 10God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. 11We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure. 12We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised. What does this mean? Thank you You are good at asking controversial questions. Let's look at the theological foundations first. The argument has raged, in the west, since the days of John Calvin and Jacobus Arminius. Two groups of doctrinal disputes have focused on the writings of these boys and have remained forever at one another's throats, theologically speaking. Calvin stated that salvation was up to God. Owing to man's fallen nature, man could not accept Christ as his savior. Man will always reject God. Always. Therefore -some- men had to be forced into compliance with God. This group is called 'the elect' although Calvin has a special meaning for the term that scripture did not intend. Arminius stated that at the point of inspiration, man could indeed decide to accept or reject Christ. Both accept the basic doctrine of original sin and the fallen nature of man. In fact both agree at every point except one; the point of acceptance of Christ in terms of active willful belief. Again, Calvin believed that even at the point where a man accepted Christ God had the upper hand and that there was no real choice involved - as far as humans understand the term. Man had already been conditioned or coerced into accepting faith. Arminius believed that man could be elevated by the Holy Spirit to the point where man could make an honest to God decision to accept or reject Jesus. So we see that the real question isn't the ultimate destiny of man, but the ultimate liberty to decide between Godly discipleship or the the illusion of human spiritual autonomy*. If you accept the Arminian theory, then you can justify man's ability to fall from grace; to backslide. If you accept the Calvinist theory, then you MUST deny that falling from grace or backsliding is possible. Your ideology MUST state that the man was never saved in the first place. The exception to this is the doctrine of sanctification, which may be interpreted to say that the Holy Spirit will seek out the backslider and bring him back into compliance, much like a sheep that has strayed from the flock. This one is my personal favorite because it can be used to explain wandering and willful sin on the part of believers no matter which basic doctrine one subscribes to. Its a skeleton key for opening the door of divine intervention in the face of human tendency to sin. Is the hand of God so short He cannot save? The end of the story is wisdom's declaration that the best policy is to yield to the good will of God because He knows what He's doing. That's the rumor anyway. More and more people in American society doubt that, but I've personally found it to be valid. God DOES know what He's doing and it's always a good idea to follow His lead. but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft... (*) I write illusion here, because its a myth. There is no such thing as human spiritual autonomy despite the popular assumption that it exists. The best the human animal can do is choose its rider; God or the devil (- Martin Luther) Edited September 30, 2012 by rjp34652 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massorite Posted October 21, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,973 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 36 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/26/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/13/1953 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Seriously, does anyone have an explanation? Does it mean what it seems like it is saying? or does it need to be rightfully divided? What is falling away exactly? I know the story of the parable of the lost son. I know that throughout the Old Testament God longs for His people to repent and come back. Can salvation be forfeited by a season of living in sin. Is this what it means to fall away? In Scripture the words "falling away" means "a departure from the faith" which means that a person has known the Holy Spirit, and has rejected or turned away from God and has begun to live a life of unrepented sin again. Which means that if that person dies while living a life of unrepented sin then they will recieve their just reward and according to scripture the just reward for living a life of unrepented sin is eternal death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinky Posted October 22, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,602 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 291 Days Won: 8 Joined: 10/24/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1986 Share Posted October 22, 2012 If one is saved they remain saved, because salvation is not based on us at all - it is based on Christ. The Bible says we are sealed with the Holy Spirit, and that our citizenship is already in heaven. To lose salvation means one undoes what was accomplished at the cross, but that work can never be undone. Christians who sin can be chastised by the Lord, and rewards at the Judgment Seat may be lost, but the child of God will yet be saved, "as if through fire." A misbehaving child is still the child of it's parents, the same as a child of God remains as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deut31:12 Posted November 5, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 232 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/05/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted November 5, 2012 I believe it refers to a person who was truly saved, truly tasted eternal life by eating of the Bread of Life, truly had the Holy Spirit indwelling, but who fell away by renouncing Yeshua. At that point he is without a sacrifice for his sins. In order to receive that sacrifice again, Yeshua would need to be crucified again on his behalf. That being impossible, he cannot be received back no matter how much he repents. This passage cannot refer to falling away by sinning unless the sin is unbelief in Messiah Yeshua or the willful sin spoken of in Hebrews 10. Well if a person renounces the Lord Jesus Christ (remember Peter denied Him also) and never repents of that then I agree they are lost. So basically, I would agree with your statement. If we sin and confess our sin, He is faithful and just to forgive our sin. John 1:9 This is correct. God looks at the heart. We all sin, but if our heart is to get back up and serve God he is merciful to forgive us, but if we in our Christianity decide that living the life and wanting to go back into the world, like Demas, we are throwing away our chance at eternal live for a life of sin. Once we do this we lose the HS and it is impossible to get it back, hence the no sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Seriously, does anyone have an explanation? Does it mean what it seems like it is saying? or does it need to be rightfully divided? What is falling away exactly? I know the story of the parable of the lost son. I know that throughout the Old Testament God longs for His people to repent and come back. Can salvation be forfeited by a season of living in sin. Is this what it means to fall away? James 5 19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messiahfollower Posted November 12, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 16 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/13/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/26/1977 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 Seriously, does anyone have an explanation? Does it mean what it seems like it is saying? or does it need to be rightfully divided? What is falling away exactly? I know the story of the parable of the lost son. I know that throughout the Old Testament God longs for His people to repent and come back. Can salvation be forfeited by a season of living in sin. Is this what it means to fall away? James 5 19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. This scripture helps, and so does the one after this. This shows me that there is still always hope, and this is not the unpardonable sin. However, I see that a man living in sin is not to be saved on the day of judgement if living an unrepetant life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts