Why does God let Bad things happen?

[Guest]

PS...I do need prayers that I remember to take my meds, I some times get wrapped up in what I'm doing and loose time.

Praying~!

[gdemoss]

Do we have to wait till the end for justice to be served?

The last thing we should want is to see justice preformed here before us. Sodom desired justice....they got it. What we don't understand is the price of true justice. Unless one is without error, they also need to be judged when justice is given. Justice will happen when the Lord returns no doubt and in Amos we are told that it is not going to be good when he does. We would do better to intercede for others to God, asking him to pour out his mercy and grace upon all who are in error today.

Gary

[OneLight]

I moved this thread here and out of the Worthy Welcome because of the topic being discussed. As I had mentioned earlier, the Worthy Welcome Forum is just what it says it is, a place to welcome and encourage new member to participate and feel accepted, in case I was not clear enough earlier.

[gdemoss]

I moved this thread here and out of the Worthy Welcome because of the topic being discussed. As I had mentioned earlier, the Worthy Welcome Forum is just what it says it is, a place to welcome and encourage new member to participate and feel accepted, in case I was not clear enough earlier.

Alan, you were clear enough. I simply did not catch that I was back in the worthy welcome section thread you previously posted in because I arrive at the threads via the 'view new posts' link and don't always check to see exactly what forum the posts are in.

Gary

[sheya joie]

An essay to consider:

the path through the valley

One day about six months after my husband died, I was bathing my youngest daughter (she was 2 then), when she pointed at the mirror in the bathroom and asked me to read it.

The mirror had been my husband's. It has King David's beautiful 23rd Psalm printed on it. Whenever my husband used to give our little girl a bath, he would read it to her.

So that day when she asked me to, I read it through to her. And then she asked me to read it again.

It was on that second read-through that I saw something. And it amazed me, because I have known the 23rd Psalm most of my life. I memorized it for a prize back when I was in kindergarten - lo, these many years ago.

But this time, as I read it, I noticed something that really struck me. For the first time, I saw that verse 3, which says, 'HE leads me in the paths of righteousness for HIS name's sake' - leads immediately into verse 4, which says, 'yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death...'

And I got to wondering - if I am being led by the LORD my Shepherd in the paths of righteousness - then how did I suddenly wind up in the valley of the shadow of death?

Unless...

...the LORD led me here?

Now, there are some people who have told me at this point, when I am relating this story, that for someone to be in the valley of the shadow of death means that they have strayed off the path of righteousness, straying away from the LORD. But I don't think that's necessarily so.

Look at the rest of verse 4: 'Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for THOU art with me; THY rod and THY staff they comfort me.'

If someone was really straying from the LORD, could they say that? Could they fear no evil if they were straying? And then David plainly states that the LORD his Shepherd is with him. He's not straying; he's right where the Shepherd wants him to be. He's being safely led, even in the darkness of the valley.

We are being safely led, even through the darkest valleys. The Shepherd is leading us. The dark valley - IS the path of righteousness.

And I think of this passage, also in the Psalms:

Psalms 66:10-12 KJV

10 For thou, O God, hast proved us: thou hast tried us, as silver is tried.

11 Thou broughtest us into the net; thou laidst affliction upon our loins.

12 Thou hast caused men to ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water: but thou broughtest us out into a wealthy place.

Why would the LORD do this to HIS people? Silver is tried by putting it into the fire, to melt away all the dross and impurities - all the scum. HE puts us in the fire? HE brings us into a net? Lays affliction on us? Even causes men to ride over our heads? (Riding on war horses, is how I picture that.)

But why? Why would HE do such things to HIS people - to the ones HE loves?

HE does these things because it is by taking us through the fire and through the water - it is by melting the gunk out of us, and by taking us through deep waters up to our necks and even deeper - it is by bringing us through such things, that the LORD can then bring us out into the wealthy place.

In other words, sometimes the only way for us to get to the good place, the wonderful gracious place the LORD our Shepherd wants to bring us to - is by us first going through the hard and the fiery and the killing places - till we have died to Self and can truly live for HIM. For HIM and to HIM. And in HIM.

Where HE leads - there follow. Though the darkness be so complete you can see only the faint glow of HIS footprints leading away into the blackness - follow. The place of richness in HIM is ahead, through the fire and the water. As HE leads.

[joeysei]

Bad things are the product of Adams and Eves decision to disobey, God never intended bad things to happen,

[GoldenEagle]

I need some help understanding God's justice.

Any ideas why bad things happen to Christians, innocent people? Where is the justice here?

Do we have to wait till the end for justice to be served?

Please let me know what you think.

1. The Bible simply doesn’t say that God will never put more on you than you can handle. This is a misreading of 1 Corinthians 10:13, which says, “No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.”

This verse is couched in the middle of Paul’s discussion of Israel’s problem with idolatry. Therefore, this verse has to deal with idolatry. The temptation spoken of was the temptation to abandon God for other things, in the case of the wilderness-wandering Israelites: sex, fun, false gods, and grumbling (

1 Corinthians 10:6-11).

Second, I believe the bronze serpent incident in

Numbers 21:4-9 is implied. In the wilderness, the Israelites began to become disenchanted with God’s provision, and they began to complain. As a result, God sent “fiery snakes” into the camp to bite and kill the Israelites. But God provided a way of escape. The “way of escape” was God had Moses fashion a brazen serpent and place it high on a pole. Whoever looked at the serpent wouldn’t be killed (21:9).

In both cases, the mediator and bronze serpent pointed to Jesus. Paul wanted the Corinthians to know that the cure for immorality, idolatry, and bitterness was Jesus. He was the way of escape from idolatry and its sinful manifestations.

None of this assumes that God won’t deliver his people from many uncomfortable situations and burdens. We know he does (

Psalm 68:19 ). However, the context of 1 Corinthians 10:13 makes it clear that the escape is from sin, and not a stressful job, unpayable bills, or bad relationships.

2. God always puts more on us than we can handle. Sometimes the Lord, in his sovereign purpose, crushes us (

Hebrews 12:4-12). He breaks us so that he can remake us. Think of how Jeremiah cried out in Lamentations because God has left his nation, city, and people utterly desolate and decimated. Think of all the psalms in which the psalmists cry out to God for bruising them. Think of our Lord Jesus in whom “it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer” (Isaiah 53:10).

Therefore, it would be untrue to state that God won’t place more on us than we can bear. He has, he does, and he will. But, he has provided One to bear wrath for us: Jesus.

If it were not for Jesus bearing our innumerable iniquity in himself, we too, would be utterly destroyed under sin’s unbearable weight. That’s where grace comes in. If it weren’t for the grace in which we stand (

Romans 5:2), we would surely fall. This life, and our sin is more than anyone of us can handle. However, God chose to lay our burdens on the back of his Son so that we do not have to bear them (Isaiah 53:6).

It would be more accurate to say that God will never place more on us than Jesus can handle.

Everything was created for God for Whom we exist.

1 Corinthians 8:6 "Yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live."

3. God loves you very much and will carry you through the storms of life. The important thing is to keep trusting God.

Proverbs 10:25 "When the storm has swept by, the wicked are gone, but the righteous stand firm forever."

Why does God allow us to go through storms?

A. To Strengthen our Character

James 1:2-4 says that the testing of our faith produces patient endurance, which in turn takes us closer to maturity and perfection. That is why James says we should count it all joy when we find ourselves in the various trials of life. Trials have a way of strengthening our character.

B. To Teach a Lesson about God's Will

Whenever you find yourself in a storm, you need to get ready to learn some important truths. God can teach us things in the storm that He cannot teach us in any other way. See Matthew 14:22-33. Now they had obeyed Jesus, they were in His will, and yet they went through a storm. Many Christians have the mistaken idea that obedience to God's will produces "smooth sailing." But this is not true. Furthermore, the storm came because they were in the will of God and not, like Jonah, out of the will of God.

C. To Experience God in a Fresh, New Way

The storm (Matthew 14:22-33) gave Jesus another opportunity to work in their lives. This led to an experience of His great salvation and victory over the storm. So if you are in God's will, and yet find yourself in the storm, then get ready, because God is about to do a work in your life, and teach you some lessons! When you go through a storm following God's will, you can be sure that Christ will be with you to deliver you from the storm.

[GoldenEagle]

you found nothing encouraging to what I wrote Onelight? ummm

The whole thread is about who's fault is it, when things go bad... Is God behind the Bad? Is God just sitting on his laurels and watching the bad happen?

God gets the blame, for about everything........... The dead child in the casket, must have been for some greater good we never will understand.... God did it.

Or, can it be that we are told to have faith, obey, and do as he has called us to do.. Could it be we have a part? If God sent his Word for us to be delivered. o heal us from our own mess (Destructions) why are not some delivered, some healed, some getting victory? Is it God's fault? Lack of Justice? Who gets the blame...?

Jesus Is Lord.

Brother Mike, what do you say to the one who spoke and acted in faith yet he remained sick or his loved one died? He did his part. He believed it would come to pass. It did not. The bad still happened. What went wrong?

Gary

God doesn't kill people or bring evil upon people. God does, however, allows us to go through trials and tribulations though. (See previous post #34.)

I. Can God Heal or provide as we ask Him? I believe He can. Does He always choose to do so? I believe He doesn’t.

I prayed for healing for my aunt who has cancer. God healed her through modern medicine. God's answer was yes.

I prayed for my dad who had bypass surgery at a very young age (late 40's) as the widow maker artery was 95% clogged. He went in for a check up due to pain in his arm. They had surgery next day. God healed him through modern medicine. God's answer was yes.

Another aunt has Perkiness disease. We have prayed for healing. No healing has come. God has said wait. Is God not good and sovereign if He doesn't heal my aunt? If He doesn't heal her does that mean we have not had enough faith or that somehow God cannot use this to somehow bring Honor to His name?

I know of a young wife who's husband was diagnosed with a brain tumor after only 2 years of marriage. Wow that would be very hard. The man finally had surgery and the doctors were able to remove the tumor. At first he could not walk as he was paralyzed. But God healed him enough to where he can walk now. The man still has trouble with memory and his eye sight. They have prayed for healing but it has not come. Is God not good and sovereign if He doesn't completely cure (memory & eye sight) this young lady's husband? Does God have the right to say "No, my grace is sufficient for you. Through your weakness and your trials you will bring honor to My Name. You will bless others through this and point others through Christ. "?

Bottom line: Is God not sovereign to say no to a request we have?

The young wife’s name is Laura Story. Her husband’s name is Martin. She wrote the song “Blessings” as well as others. Would her ministry to those who are suffering be the same without the trials of her husband’s health? http://www.songlyric...essings-lyrics/

She says she believes God can heal if He wills it. She said God is 100% powerful. She said God is 100% loving. So that means putting those two together that means healing for her husband.

But the most important thing she said is... “You don’t want to hear this. This is – yuck. Sometimes God gives us what we need instead of what we want. Sometimes God lets us stay broken so that God’s light can bream through.”

II. I believe God's answers are: A) Yes B) No or C) Wait

I think first I want to emphasize 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

If someone would like to disagree with me that is fine as long as there is Biblical backing. I am speaking of what God has taught me is all.

Here’s a few examples from Scripture...

Yes – God granted the request Jabez made of Him. (1 Chron 4:10)

Yes – Hannah prayed for a baby. God gave her Samuel. (1 Sam. 1 & 2)

Yes – Elijah prayed for God to show His power to the followers of Baal. (1 Kings 18:20-40)

Wait – How long did Job have to wait before God restored him and even blessed him more than what he’d had before?

Wait – How long did Joseph have to wait before he was free and re-united with his brothers?

Wait – How long did Simeon await the Messiah (Luke 2)

No – Paul asked God in to take away his ailment 3 times and God said no. (2 Cor. 12:7-10)

No – David was not to build the temple. (1 Chron. 28:3)

No – God said no to Abraham’s request for God to accept Ishmael instead of Isaac as the promised son.

Do I believe there is Biblical backing for saying when people suffer (financially, heath related, etc.) it is because of their own sin? No. This is errant theology and I believe it is spiritual abuse.

Bottom line: We are free in Christ to disagree with Brother Mike. (Gal 5:1 & Rom. 8:2)

[GoldenEagle]

No – Paul asked God in to take away his ailment 3 times and God said no. (2 Cor. 12:7-10)

How was Paul sick.............???

Paul said a Messenger of Satan came to buffet him.. (Stop him from getting the Word out) This messenger stirred up the people against Paul. Give me the scripture about his sickness, I can't find it....

Bottom line: We are free in Christ to disagree with Brother Mike. (Gal 5:1 & Rom. 8:2)

I like that..............

Jesus Is Lord

Lol. I suppose you agree with the rest of the the content of the posts. Good I'm glad we agree. Let's talk about Paul then.

Okay so perhaps they were not ailments in your opinion - a thorn in the flesh per say. Apparently, it is a common mistake to assume that the thorn in the flesh was a disease or ailment that Satan gave Paul. But there is obviously symbolism involved here (since it's not a literal thorn), and when symbolism is involved, we have to let God's Word itself interpret the symbolism. We cannot privately interpret, make assumptions, or guess at what it might mean. So I studied this further and I concede that I misrepresented this passage regarding Paul having what I implied was a physical ailment. I came back to the rule: We MUST compare scripture with scripture to discern God's truth.

Joshua 23:13 - "Know for a certainty that the Lord your God will no more drive out any of these nations from before you; but they shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until ye perish from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you." Here we see other nations would be entanglements for the Lord's people.

Numbers 33:55 - "But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell." Here we see the inhabitants of the land, who if left among the Children of God, would vex or trouble the children of Israel.

Some would say "Paul obviously isn't talking about a literal thorn sticking out of his flesh. He was simply using a common expression of those days, just as they are used in our day." A term we use today is to say someone is, "a pain in the neck."

Judges 2:3 - "Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you." They would be a snare and trouble to God's Children.

Ezekiel 2:6 - "And thou, son of man, be not afraid of them, neither be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns be with thee, and thou dost dwell among scorpions: be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house." The briers, thorns, and scorpions are all symbolic of the people of Satan which come against the Lord's Children to vex them. These are the adversaries of God's servants who come to revile and trouble them.

Luke 6:44 - "For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes." Here they are false teachers who are the enemies of God's people and come bearing no fruit.

In the book of Hebrews, God speaks of those fallen away from Him..

Hebrews 6:8-9 - "But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany Salvation, though we thus speak". Here we see the contrast between the messengers of God, and the messengers of Satan. One planting, whose work is signified as thorns and briers, and the other, who God says will bring forth better things, things which accompany Salvation. The clear illustration of thorns as the fruit of the wicked who are under God's judgment.

Okay so we talked about thorns. I concede it was a spiritual hindrance. Paul did ask for the Lord to act and the Lord decided not to. At least on that we can agree? What about the previous verses in chapter 11?

Do you think Paul asked God to keep him from receiving the lashes from the Jews? What was God's answer? (vs. 24)

Do you think Paul asked God to keep him from being beaten with rods or stoned? What was God's answer? (vs. 25)

Do you think Paul asked God to keep him from being shipwrecked? What was God's answer? (vs. 25)

Do you think Paul wanted to be in danger? What was God's answer? Was God not showing Paul that he should trust God? (vs. 26)

Did Paul not hunger and thirst in the cold? Do you think Paul asked God to take the hardship away? What was God's answer? (vs. 27)

2 Cor. 11:21-29

²¹ To my shame I must say that we have been weak by comparison.

But in whatever respect anyone else is bold—I speak in foolishness—I am just as bold myself. ²² Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they ^[g]descendants of Abraham? So am I. ²³ Are they servants of Christ?—I speak as if insane—I more so; in ^[h]far more labors, in ^[i]far more imprisonments, ^[j]beaten times without number, often in danger of death. ²⁴ Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes.²⁵ Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep. ²⁶ I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren; ²⁷ I have been in labor and hardship, ^[k]through many sleepless nights, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and ^[l]exposure. ²⁸ Apart from such ^[m]external things, there is the daily pressure on me of concern for all the churches. ²⁹ Who is weak without my being weak? Who is^[n]led into sin ^[o]without my intense concern?

[gdemoss]

Could it be, that it's not God Allowing, because to Allow something when you have power to stop it, is in a way condoning it. If I saw a small child crawling to the edge of the swimming pool, and did nothing but watch the baby drown, would I be a fault somehow?

This is exactly why people come to crazy weird doctrinal positions and thoughts about God. Because they can't fathom the thought that God actually allows the baby to fall in the pool and drown though he could stop it from happening. But alas it is true. God knew it was going to happen, could have prevented it but did not.

Gary