gdemoss Posted November 26, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted November 26, 2012 In the beginning of the day or at the end as a day with the lord is as a thousand years? Some I believe will rise with the new day while others will rise at the end of the day but all will rise again. Gary What part of 'last' do you not understand? Last means last. Period. There is a final day which will occur at the Father's desire. Even the Son doesn't know when it will occur. I don't mean to be condescending here, but this is as obvious as the nose on our collective faces. L A S T. I understand that it is my understanding that you believe is in error here. To ask the question you do, you must assume that the bible is speaking of a single 24 hour period of time known as a day and on the last of these there will be a resurrection of the dead that will occur. As I have said, I believe the text speaks of the millennium as a day. I know you don't agree. We shall agree to disagree, no? Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippias Posted November 26, 2012 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 148 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted November 26, 2012 According to the word of God as given by Paul in his letter to the Thessalonians the resurrection of the dead and the return of God has taken place during Paul's life-time: For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord: that we who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who are asleep.For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first; then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord.Therefore comfort one another with these words. (1 Thess 15-18) Here is your post that I first responded too and if we read the passage in context you see that the actions happen in the same time frame, the dead(bodies of the saints that are gone to be with the Lord) are raised to meet their spirits and then as the verse says, we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord. I highlighted these in the passage you quoted. It easy to prove this hasn't happened yet, are you caught up in the air to be with the Lord and are you there with Him now? On forgeries, you brought that up so you would have to be the one to explain what you meant by that. The point is that these verses imply that God promised this event took place during Paul's life-time (we who are alive and remain etc.) so I don't see why doubt God's Word on this instance. Maybe you think your judgement is a higher authority than the word of God. As for forgeries: I didn't claim any in the Bible. I misunderstood your comment about the lack of chapters and verses in the original manuscripts by assuming you meant some words were added later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted November 26, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Maybe you think your judgement is a higher authority than the word of God. Cut the sarcasm and personal attacks please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bold Believer Posted November 26, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,931 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/22/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1955 Share Posted November 26, 2012 In the beginning of the day or at the end as a day with the lord is as a thousand years? Some I believe will rise with the new day while others will rise at the end of the day but all will rise again. Gary What part of 'last' do you not understand? Last means last. Period. There is a final day which will occur at the Father's desire. Even the Son doesn't know when it will occur. I don't mean to be condescending here, but this is as obvious as the nose on our collective faces. L A S T. I understand that it is my understanding that you believe is in error here. To ask the question you do, you must assume that the bible is speaking of a single 24 hour period of time known as a day and on the last of these there will be a resurrection of the dead that will occur. As I have said, I believe the text speaks of the millennium as a day. I know you don't agree. We shall agree to disagree, no? Gary Actually Gary, the Scriptures never speak of the thousand years as a single day. The Greek term chilioi is translated as a long period of indeterminate time. The other Biblical phrases which speak of a thousand years in this manner are these two: Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight [are but] as yesterday when it is past, and [as] a watch in the night. and 2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. and are references to the way God sees time as opposed to the way we humans see time. They have nothing to do with the millennium. The last day has been pre-determined by the Father and will occur when it arrives, and when it DOES occur, the events of Revelation 20:9 and following will happen on that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bold Believer Posted November 26, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,931 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/22/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1955 Share Posted November 26, 2012 We know for certain by reading this passage that the first resurrection if not the very last day because these in v4 were killed in the tribulation and then go and lived another 1000 years in their resurrected bodies during the reign of Christ as it says in v 4 and verse 5 says this is the first surrection. So the nose on your face may be what is obvious and not the first surrection. Rev 20:4-6 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. The first resurrection is that of the martyrs of the Neronian persecution. It's a specific resurrection given to them. Notice in all the other instances when Jesus speaks of the resurrection, he speaks in general terms. It only applies to those, notice, the writer refers to their having been beheaded and not taking the Mark of the Beast. They refused to venerate the emperors of Rome as Lord and God. The very term 'Jesus is Lord' was a response to the demand of the Roman government that 'Caesar is Lord.' This may also be a spiritual resurrection, rather than body (that is, the martyrs' bodies may still be awaiting reuniting with their already resurrected spirits) as they are given special status to reign with Christ during the thousand years. The Last Day resurrection is everyone who ever lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted November 26, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,180 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,457 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Maybe you think your judgement is a higher authority than the word of God. Cut the sarcasm and personal attacks please. Good thing he does not live in Africa Love ya Fez, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allofgrace Posted November 26, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 158 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 26 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/30/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted November 26, 2012 (edited) We know for certain by reading this passage that the first resurrection if not the very last day because these in v4 were killed in the tribulation and then go and lived another 1000 years in their resurrected bodies during the reign of Christ as it says in v 4 and verse 5 says this is the first surrection. So the nose on your face may be what is obvious and not the first surrection. Rev 20:4-6 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. The first resurrection is that of the martyrs of the Neronian persecution. It's a specific resurrection given to them. Notice in all the other instances when Jesus speaks of the resurrection, he speaks in general terms. It only applies to those, notice, the writer refers to their having been beheaded and not taking the Mark of the Beast. They refused to venerate the emperors of Rome as Lord and God. The very term 'Jesus is Lord' was a response to the demand of the Roman government that 'Caesar is Lord.' This may also be a spiritual resurrection, rather than body (that is, the martyrs' bodies may still be awaiting reuniting with their already resurrected spirits) as they are given special status to reign with Christ during the thousand years. The Last Day resurrection is everyone who ever lived. I am content to read what the scripture says and to apply to all saints that are with the Lord and all who will be alive when it happens. Paul inspired by the Holy Spirit called it the first resurrection and that is all I have called it, he included the bodies and those being transformed so I would not describe it otherwise. The saints killed during the tribulation are their in heaven in their spirits and their bodies are resurrected and they go into the 1000 years reign as do other saints where in the NT it tells us that the saints will rule with the Lord and I believe they must be there in order to do that. Edited November 26, 2012 by allofgrace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted November 26, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted November 26, 2012 The spiritually dead come back to life when they accept Christ as their Savior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bold Believer Posted November 26, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,931 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/22/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1955 Share Posted November 26, 2012 The spiritually dead come back to life when they accept Christ as their Savior Correct, but we're speaking of the day when the body is reunited with the spirit. AllofGrace, Revelation 20 specifically states that the first resurrection applies to those who did not receive the mark of the beast. Since that is something that occurred in Roman times (since it refers to receiving Caesar as God rather than Jesus), it has no meaning to us. The event has occurred for them. They reigned alongside Christ. Since there are no physical human bodies in heaven, I'm led to believe that this was for the martyrs a raising of their spirits to where Christ is: at the right hand of the Father. Other deceased believers, while they most definitely are present with the Lord, did not have the special status of reigning with him during the thousand years (millennium if you prefer). Technically speaking, resurrection is a status as well as a literal bringing to life of the body. The word anastasis which is the primary word used for resurrection in the New Testament. Those who are resurrected are allowed to stand up in the presence of the King. It is something awarded to them BY the king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted November 26, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted November 26, 2012 The spiritually dead come back to life when they accept Christ as their Savior Correct, but we're speaking of the day when the body is reunited with the spirit. ummm...yes I realize that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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