Jump to content

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  764
  • Topics Per Day:  0.16
  • Content Count:  7,626
  • Content Per Day:  1.65
  • Reputation:   1,559
  • Days Won:  44
  • Joined:  10/03/2012
  • Status:  Offline

Posted

****Please note this is not the OP/Subject just the introduction****

I’m going to start a series about Leadership on WCF and how it applies to Christians today. My hope is to encourage others to grow and mature in their walk with the Lord. I also would like to see people reach their full potential in leadership in reaching those around them for Christ and making disciples in fullfilling the Great Commission.

Here's what we've discussed and looked at from a Scriptural perspective so far:

God bless,

GE

------------------------------------

*****This is the OP and subject to this thread below*****

Leadership - 1. The Law of the Lid: Leadership Ability Determines A Person’s Level of Effectiveness.

1. Success is within the reach of just about anyone. Effort is required as well as some favor from God. Success without leadership ability brings only limited effectiveness. Leadership has a multiplying effect. To raise one’s level of effectiveness one must increase his or her leadership ability.

4 Observations:

A. Leadership ability is the lid that determines a person's level of effectiveness.

B. Your leadership ability – for better or for worse – always determines your effectiveness and the potential impact of your organization.

C. Personal and organizational effectiveness is proportionate to the strength of leadership.

D. You can find smart, talented, successful people who are able to go only so far because of the limitations of their leadership.

Example: McDonald’s

Take McDonald’s for example. In 1937, Dick and Maurice McDonald opened a small drive-in restaurant in Pasadena, located just east of Glendale. People in southern California had become very dependent on their cars and the culture was changing to accommodate that including businesses.

By 1940 they expanded into San Bernardino, 50 miles east of L.A. That year they had an annual sales revenue of $200,000 and split $50,000 in profits. In 1948, they streamlined their business and adjusted their process in the kitchen to become much like an assembly line. Annual sales hit $350,000 by the mid-1950’s and the brothers split profits of about $100,000 a year.

The rest is history as they say right?

Nope. Wrong.

The McDonalds never went any further because while they were great visionaries (customer service and kitchen organization) their weak leadership put a lid on their ability to succeed.

In 1954 the McDonald brothers hooked up with a great leader in Ray Kroc. Kroc struck a deal with the McDonald brothers and founded McDonald’s ,Inc. in 1955 (What we know today as the McDonald’s Corporation). Kroc saw potential in the brothers new store and began to sell franchises. Kroc assembled a team and started building an organization with the vision to make McDonald’s a nationwide entity. He recruited the sharpest people he could find and sacrificed a lot even though he was in his mid-fifties.

His sacrifice and leadership paid off. In 1961 for the sum of 2.7 million dollars, Kroc brought the exclusive rights from the brothers and he proceeded to turn it into an American institution and a global entity.

The “lid” in the life and leadership of Ray Kroc was obviously much higher than his predecessors. The McDonald brothers were able to sell 15 franchisees their concept of which only 10 succeeded.

On the other hand Kroc’s leadership lid was sky high as he succeeded in opening from 1955 to 1959 100 new restaurants! By 1963 there were 500 MacDonald’s. As of June 2012 there are over 33,000 McDonald restaurants around the world in 118 countries. As of June of 2012 there are over 14,000 restaurants in the U.S. alone.

Can you think of some other examples? How does this apply to the Christian today in relation to the Bible? (Hint: Perhaps Saul and David come to mind?)

God bless,

GE

Assume I'm using this source for all my posts on this thread: Leadership material from John C. Maxwell.

Posted

I have seen many articles and books on leadership among Christians come and go over the years and I wonder if what we need is more discipleship rather than leadership these days.

Now, I'm not trying to attack what you're trying to do GE (and maybe this would make a thread of its own,) but Jesus did say that if we wanted to be leaders we should first be servants of all.

Just a thought. :)


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  7
  • Topic Count:  104
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  2,928
  • Content Per Day:  0.57
  • Reputation:   467
  • Days Won:  2
  • Joined:  04/02/2011
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  03/22/1953

Posted
Can you think of some other examples? How does this apply to the Christian today in relation to the Bible? (Hint: Perhaps Saul and David come to mind?)

Right off the top of my head (and this may not be the kind of example you are looking for) I think of the 12 disciples (11 if you don't count Judas) who are responsible for the fact that we have Christianity today - 2000 years later.

What can we say confidently about their leadership?

1. They were willing to give over their lives to it (even to GIVE their life, if it came to that)

2. They believed 100 percent in their cause

3. They had TRUTH on their side.

4. They were indwelt by the Holy Spirit

And I'm sure I could list more. But even as great as what these men did was, their contributions to the early spread of Christianity were dwarfed by one Saul of Tarsus - who wasn't even an original disciple.

After his "road to Damascus" experience, Saul (Paul) had all of the traits listed above - again with the exception he wasn't an original disciple. Obviously that did not matter to God, for we know He used Paul extensively.

We can probably draw many conclusions about leadership from that example alone. Quite a bit depends (I believe) on the personality of the person. Their traits. But even there, we see exceptions. Moses did not consider himself any kind of a leader (he begged God to use someone else) but God obviously saw something in Moses that Moses did not.

Perhaps the parable of the Talents comes into play here. We see God blessed those who took whatever they had and increased it - by how much did not seem to be important. Yet, he did increase more to those who had more. (the "evil rich", perhaps?)

God DID NOT bless the one who, however, took his talent and hid it.

Personally, I struggle with the concept of leadership. Real leadership (i.e. getting people to do something they may not be inclined to do) seems to be something one either has or does not have. If there is a formula, I have not yet found it.

I always think of old war movies (fortunately, I was never in combat myself) when I consider an example of a leader. You see the leaders getting the men to "take that hill" - when taking the hill may cost them their very lives.

That kind of leadership cannot be taught, and I don't think it can be learned. You either have it, or you don't.

Blessings!

-Ed


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  20
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  934
  • Content Per Day:  0.18
  • Reputation:   137
  • Days Won:  6
  • Joined:  07/20/2011
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  02/12/1950

Posted

Sounds like part of the Black belt training one has gone through, Yea I have read the book and a few dozen others as well, can not hurt. TQM, OG Mandino had pretty good book.

" When you deliver the best service of which you are capable, striving each time to excel all your previous efforts, you are making use of the highest form of education. Therefore, when you render more service and better service than that for which you are paid, you, more than anyone else, are profiting by the effort"

I've always tried to give just a little bit more then what people hired me to do.

Dennis

Posted

.... The “lid” in the life and leadership of Ray Kroc was obviously much higher than his predecessors. The McDonald brothers were able to sell 15 franchisees their concept of which only 10 succeeded.

On the other hand Kroc’s leadership lid was sky high as he succeeded in opening from 1955 to 1959 100 new restaurants! By 1963 there were 500 MacDonald’s. As of June 2012 there are over 33,000 McDonald restaurants around the world in 118 countries. As of June of 2012 there are over 14,000 restaurants in the U.S. alone.

Can you think of some other examples? How does this apply to the Christian today in relation to the Bible?... Source: Leadership material from John C. Maxwell.

Christian Leadership Starts In Christ

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Matthew 16:24-27

And Continues In Christ

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. Matthew 23:8-11

And Ends In Christ

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. John 15:10-13

Or It Ain't

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:15-17

Christian

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. 1 John 5:21

~

Believe

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  764
  • Topics Per Day:  0.16
  • Content Count:  7,626
  • Content Per Day:  1.65
  • Reputation:   1,559
  • Days Won:  44
  • Joined:  10/03/2012
  • Status:  Offline

Posted

I have seen many articles and books on leadership among Christians come and go over the years and I wonder if what we need is more discipleship rather than leadership these days.

Now, I'm not trying to attack what you're trying to do GE (and maybe this would make a thread of its own,) but Jesus did say that if we wanted to be leaders we should first be servants of all.

Just a thought. :)

Perhaps the wording is not as concise as I'd like. However, leaders are mentored by someone correct? Therefor, they are disciples of whoever was their mentor. And to be a leader one must first learn to serve. I think we're speaking of similar terms here.

Thanks for the input.

God bless,

GE


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  764
  • Topics Per Day:  0.16
  • Content Count:  7,626
  • Content Per Day:  1.65
  • Reputation:   1,559
  • Days Won:  44
  • Joined:  10/03/2012
  • Status:  Offline

Posted

Can you think of some other examples? How does this apply to the Christian today in relation to the Bible? (Hint: Perhaps Saul and David come to mind?)

Right off the top of my head (and this may not be the kind of example you are looking for) I think of the 12 disciples (11 if you don't count Judas) who are responsible for the fact that we have Christianity today - 2000 years later.

What can we say confidently about their leadership?

1. They were willing to give over their lives to it (even to GIVE their life, if it came to that)

2. They believed 100 percent in their cause

3. They had TRUTH on their side.

4. They were indwelt by the Holy Spirit

This is a great example of discipleship/leadership SaveByGrace. Jesus had His inner circle in the 3, the 12, other disciples, and those who were Seekers.

And I'm sure I could list more. But even as great as what these men did was, their contributions to the early spread of Christianity were dwarfed by one Saul of Tarsus - who wasn't even an original disciple.

After his "road to Damascus" experience, Saul (Paul) had all of the traits listed above - again with the exception he wasn't an original disciple. Obviously that did not matter to God, for we know He used Paul extensively.

Yes Paul (Saul of Tarsus) is another great example. Paul was likely part of the Sanhedrin, a Roman citizen, and was schooled in Greco-Roman thought which made him ideal to reach Gentiles. (Acts 17:18, 28)

Paul was educated by a well respected rabbi Gamaliel in Jerusalem. (Acts 22:3, 26:4) Paul was a rising star in Judaism prior to his conversion. Paul was a strict Pharisee of the tribe of Benjamin (Rom. 11:1 and Phil 3:5) and was a youthful prosecutor of the Church (Acts 7:58; 26:10; Gal. 1:13-14). Yet Jesus had other plans for Paul to take the Gospel to the Gentiles. (Gal. 1:15-16a; Acts 9:1-21)

We can probably draw many conclusions about leadership from that example alone. Quite a bit depends (I believe) on the personality of the person. Their traits. But even there, we see exceptions. Moses did not consider himself any kind of a leader (he begged God to use someone else) but God obviously saw something in Moses that Moses did not.

Moses is another great example of a leader developed by God. At first Moses had his brother (Aaron) speak for him (Ex. 5-8). God says “Say to Aaron, …” (Ex. 7:9, 7:19, 8:5, 8:16) But did you notice a subtle change with the fourth plague? The Bible says “Moses said, …” in Ex. 8:26, 29…

This is another principle that I will bring up later. Leadership develops daily, not in a day (Leadership – 3. Law of Process). God developes us as leaders/disciples through experience, knowledge, and trust in Him.

Perhaps the parable of the Talents comes into play here. We see God blessed those who took whatever they had and increased it - by how much did not seem to be important. Yet, he did increase more to those who had more. (the "evil rich", perhaps?)

God DID NOT bless the one who, however, took his talent and hid it.

Another great example. Here the principle is that we’re not to be lazy with what God blesses us with – talents and resources.

Personally, I struggle with the concept of leadership. Real leadership (i.e. getting people to do something they may not be inclined to do) seems to be something one either has or does not have. If there is a formula, I have not yet found it.

Sure there is natural leadership (Paul) and yet there is learned leadership (Moses) as well.

I always think of old war movies (fortunately, I was never in combat myself) when I consider an example of a leader. You see the leaders getting the men to "take that hill" - when taking the hill may cost them their very lives.

That kind of leadership cannot be taught, and I don't think it can be learned. You either have it, or you don't.

Blessings!

-Ed

I’ll address the idea further underlined that leadership can be learned later.

Overall great thoughts Ed. Thanks for sharing brother!

In Christ,

Jon


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  764
  • Topics Per Day:  0.16
  • Content Count:  7,626
  • Content Per Day:  1.65
  • Reputation:   1,559
  • Days Won:  44
  • Joined:  10/03/2012
  • Status:  Offline

Posted

Sounds like part of the Black belt training one has gone through, Yea I have read the book and a few dozen others as well, can not hurt. TQM, OG Mandino had pretty good book.

" When you deliver the best service of which you are capable, striving each time to excel all your previous efforts, you are making use of the highest form of education. Therefore, when you render more service and better service than that for which you are paid, you, more than anyone else, are profiting by the effort"

I've always tried to give just a little bit more then what people hired me to do.

Dennis

Extra effort is great Oldshep. It's like going the extra mile. :thumbsup:

Matt. 5:38-42

Go the Second Mile

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’[f] 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  764
  • Topics Per Day:  0.16
  • Content Count:  7,626
  • Content Per Day:  1.65
  • Reputation:   1,559
  • Days Won:  44
  • Joined:  10/03/2012
  • Status:  Offline

Posted

.... The “lid” in the life and leadership of Ray Kroc was obviously much higher than his predecessors. The McDonald brothers were able to sell 15 franchisees their concept of which only 10 succeeded.

On the other hand Kroc’s leadership lid was sky high as he succeeded in opening from 1955 to 1959 100 new restaurants! By 1963 there were 500 MacDonald’s. As of June 2012 there are over 33,000 McDonald restaurants around the world in 118 countries. As of June of 2012 there are over 14,000 restaurants in the U.S. alone.

Can you think of some other examples? How does this apply to the Christian today in relation to the Bible?... Source: Leadership material from John C. Maxwell.

Christian Leadership Starts In Christ

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Matthew 16:24-27

And Continues In Christ

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. Matthew 23:8-11

And Ends In Christ

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. John 15:10-13

Or It Ain't

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:15-17

Christian

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. 1 John 5:21

~

Believe

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

I agree Joe. :thumbsup:

I agree Christ is the ultimate leader. He is the greatest picture of leadership in the Bible. We are to follow Him above all. He is the best example of servant leadership, going the extra mile, and believing in people's potential.

To clarify I'm not trying to make an idol out of anyone. Kroc was just as an example of a man who had more vision for an organization and was driven to more success than the McDonald brothers.

God bless,

Jon


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  764
  • Topics Per Day:  0.16
  • Content Count:  7,626
  • Content Per Day:  1.65
  • Reputation:   1,559
  • Days Won:  44
  • Joined:  10/03/2012
  • Status:  Offline

Posted

Can you think of some other examples? How does this apply to the Christian today in relation to the Bible? (Hint: Perhaps Saul and David come to mind?)

A. Law of the Lid: King Comparison - Saul and David…]

1. Saul stopped leading to serve his own interests… See 1 Sam 15:1-26

God commanded King Saul through Samuel to destroy the Amalekites and everything they owned. This was to be the supreme test of Saul’s fitness to lead God’s people – a test Saul failed miserably. Saul spared the king of the Amalekites and took for himself the best of their livestock. When confronted about Saul’s disobedience by Samuel he offered lame exuse that he intended to sacrifice the livestock to the Lord.

“Woops. I got caught. I really meant to give this to God.” The result was Saul was rejected as King of Israel.

2. David on the other hand was a man after God’s own heart. See 1 Sam 16:1-13

This passage shows how God disregards human customs and traditions to accomplish His purposes. By human standards David was not a good candidate. David was a shepherd and the youngest son in his father’s family. Yet God saw the heart of the young man and knew that his people would need a leader with tenderness of spirit. God developed David as a leader for His people. David probably had to wait around 15-20 years before he became King of Israel in Saul’s stead.

David devolved into a leader of courage with wisdom and strength beyond his years. David demonstrated his faith in God and willingness to be used by God in defeating Goliath while the great warriors of the time hid in their tents. (1 Sam. 17:40-50) David enjoyed a clear sense of dependence on God and made sure God would get the glory for any success in his life.

David had a great attitude and did what was asked of him. While his own brothers looked down on him God lifted David up.

David’s life illustrates that faithfulness in the small things often results in much larger assignment and greater responsibility down the road. David loved the Lord and lived his life as a man after God’s own heart (1 Sam. 13:13-14; Acts 13:22)

3. The Law of the Lid: Leadership Determined Saul and David’s Success. See 1 Sam 17:24-40

When Goliath taunted the armies of Israel the frightened Hebrew soldiers forgot how to fight. They lacked a leader who could provide a strategy for success. They lacked a leader who was willing to follow God no matter what the instruction was.

Saul was a very experienced soldier; but he cowered in fear with his men. David, on the other hand, sized up the situation, determined his weapon (a sling and stones) and ran towards Goliath. In case this was missed the first time David RAN to Goliath.

Saul suffered under the lid of fear; paralyzed from leading. David labored under no such lid. Once God gave David the giant, the Israelite army joined to finish of the Philistines who couldn’t believe their hero was bested by a boy.

Your thoughts?

God bless,

GE

Source: Leadership material from John C. Maxwell.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • You are coming up higher in this season – above the assignments of character assassination and verbal arrows sent to manage you, contain you, and derail your purpose. Where you have had your dreams and sleep robbed, as well as your peace and clarity robbed – leaving you feeling foggy, confused, and heavy – God is, right now, bringing freedom back -- now you will clearly see the smoke and mirrors that were set to distract you and you will disengage.

      Right now God is declaring a "no access zone" around you, and your enemies will no longer have any entry point into your life. Oil is being poured over you to restore the years that the locust ate and give you back your passion. This is where you will feel a fresh roar begin to erupt from your inner being, and a call to leave the trenches behind and begin your odyssey in your Christ calling moving you to bear fruit that remains as you minister to and disciple others into their Christ identity.

      This is where you leave the trenches and scale the mountain to fight from a different place, from victory, from peace, and from rest. Now watch as God leads you up higher above all the noise, above all the chaos, and shows you where you have been seated all along with Him in heavenly places where you are UNTOUCHABLE. This is where you leave the soul fight, and the mind battle, and learn to fight differently.

      You will know how to live like an eagle and lead others to the same place of safety and protection that God led you to, which broke you out of the silent prison you were in. Put your war boots on and get ready to fight back! Refuse to lay down -- get out of bed and rebuke what is coming at you. Remember where you are seated and live from that place.

      Acts 1:8 - “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses … to the end of the earth.”

       

      ALBERT FINCH MINISTRY
        • Thanks
        • This is Worthy
        • Thumbs Up
      • 3 replies
    • George Whitten, the visionary behind Worthy Ministries and Worthy News, explores the timing of the Simchat Torah War in Israel. Is this a water-breaking moment? Does the timing of the conflict on October 7 with Hamas signify something more significant on the horizon?

       



      This was a message delivered at Eitz Chaim Congregation in Dallas Texas on February 3, 2024.

      To sign up for our Worthy Brief -- https://worthybrief.com

      Be sure to keep up to date with world events from a Christian perspective by visiting Worthy News -- https://www.worthynews.com

      Visit our live blogging channel on Telegram -- https://t.me/worthywatch
      • 0 replies
    • Understanding the Enemy!

      I thought I write about the flip side of a topic, and how to recognize the attempts of the enemy to destroy lives and how you can walk in His victory!

      For the Apostle Paul taught us not to be ignorant of enemy's tactics and strategies.

      2 Corinthians 2:112  Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices. 

      So often, we can learn lessons by learning and playing "devil's" advocate.  When we read this passage,

      Mar 3:26  And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. 
      Mar 3:27  No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strongman; and then he will spoil his house. 

      Here we learn a lesson that in order to plunder one's house you must first BIND up the strongman.  While we realize in this particular passage this is referring to God binding up the strongman (Satan) and this is how Satan's house is plundered.  But if you carefully analyze the enemy -- you realize that he uses the same tactics on us!  Your house cannot be plundered -- unless you are first bound.   And then Satan can plunder your house!

      ... read more
        • Oy Vey!
        • Praise God!
        • Thanks
        • Well Said!
        • Brilliant!
        • Loved it!
        • This is Worthy
        • Thumbs Up
      • 230 replies
    • Daniel: Pictures of the Resurrection, Part 3

      Shalom everyone,

      As we continue this study, I'll be focusing on Daniel and his picture of the resurrection and its connection with Yeshua (Jesus). 

      ... read more
        • Praise God!
        • Brilliant!
        • Loved it!
        • This is Worthy
        • Thumbs Up
      • 13 replies
    • Abraham and Issac: Pictures of the Resurrection, Part 2
      Shalom everyone,

      As we continue this series the next obvious sign of the resurrection in the Old Testament is the sign of Isaac and Abraham.

      Gen 22:1  After these things God tested Abraham and said to him, "Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am."
      Gen 22:2  He said, "Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you."

      So God "tests" Abraham and as a perfect picture of the coming sacrifice of God's only begotten Son (Yeshua - Jesus) God instructs Issac to go and sacrifice his son, Issac.  Where does he say to offer him?  On Moriah -- the exact location of the Temple Mount.

      ...read more
        • Well Said!
        • This is Worthy
        • Thumbs Up
      • 20 replies
×
×
  • Create New...