ted Posted November 7, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted November 7, 2004 SS, Coming to a Christian web site and posting things to antagonize does little. Are you truly here to learn and maybe make a soul-saving decision to accept Christ? If so, I'm sure you will be blessed here, but jabbing people into petty arguments will not last long. Thanks, t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted November 8, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted November 8, 2004 SS, No where in this thread did I purport to any belief in any god and your sophomoric attempt to bait me into anger was unsuccessful. If however, your goal was to insult me, you have succeeded. Don't try to put words into my mouth, I can speak for myself just fine thank you. ellie I didn't ask for a synopses of Christianity and while I appreciate the time you took to write it I must tell you that I have heard it all before and so far can not buy into the whole "fear/reward" system. But this is for another thread, as this one is about prayer. -SS ????? I saw no fear attempted in Ellies thread. I only saw Love. I also did not see Nicholas provoking you into anger. You asked the question. The answer you got you did not like. God did not come to condemn you. He came to lift the condemnation you are already under. It is your sin that is separating you from God. By this you are already Judged. Here is the Truth; Joh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted November 8, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted November 8, 2004 AMEN! Dr. Luke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thomas I believe Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 The advantage a "believer" has over the "unbeliever" is the Holy Spirit who comes to reside in him. You are confused because you lack the resource (Holy Spirit) for understanding "spiritual" things. So these things will ALWAYS be a mystery or confusing to you. Instead of attempting to "look into" the more mundane aspects of man's relationship with God, what you need to do is to investigate the reality OR non-reality of Jesus Christ. If you can prove to yourself that He isn't who He says He is, then you can go on your merry way, never looking back. This is the ONLY sure way of determining if the Bible is true. Dad Ernie, Right on ... It is the Holy Spirit that takes us beyond mans logic. It is only then that we can start to fully understand what God commands, Who He is, the true meaning of His word. All the mysterys of God that are so hard to understand begin to make sense. I thank God for revelation of the truth through the Spirit. Only then does our trust grow and advance us to the next level in our walk !!!! Praise God in all His Glory..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellie Posted November 11, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 36 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 197 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/14/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 11, 2004 Still praying for you S.S. Wish we would hear from you. In His Great and Wonderful love, ellie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slippery Slope Posted November 12, 2004 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/19/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/24/1965 Author Share Posted November 12, 2004 Hello all, I've been off line a while during my move but I'm back with more questions... When asked why God allows seemingly senseless and or horrific things to happen I always hear this "God gave man free will" and "God doesn't interfere in the dealings of men". So the question I have is, Why do you pray for God to do things for you or others? If you already believe God gave you and everyone else free will and that he doesn't stop the train from slamming into the bus load of 3 year-olds then why do you pray to him for various and sundry things, including praying that I will be saved? -SS <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ted: No complaint here, just a question. Nicolas: I am Agnostic and therefore am skeptical of the existance of the christian god. So, claiming that you are happy that I believe in god, when I said no such thing would appear to be a sarcastic comment. Dr Luke: Nicolas didn't answer my question so how could I like or dislike it? Christianity (and many other religions) use a fear/reward system to control their followers. Do as I say (which god wants me to tell you) and you get to go to the happy place when you die or you will go to the bad place and be burned and tormented for eternity. Don't eat pork or... Don't (fill in your denominations rules) or... Do give us money... believe in Jesus or... it's a fear/reward system. Still waiting -SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellie Posted November 12, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 36 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 197 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/14/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 12, 2004 Hello all, I've been off line a while during my move but I'm back with more questions... When asked why God allows seemingly senseless and or horrific things to happen I always hear this "God gave man free will" and "God doesn't interfere in the dealings of men". So the question I have is, Why do you pray for God to do things for you or others? If you already believe God gave you and everyone else free will and that he doesn't stop the train from slamming into the bus load of 3 year-olds then why do you pray to him for various and sundry things, including praying that I will be saved? -SS <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ted: No complaint here, just a question. Nicolas: I am Agnostic and therefore am skeptical of the existance of the christian god. So, claiming that you are happy that I believe in god, when I said no such thing would appear to be a sarcastic comment. Dr Luke: Nicolas didn't answer my question so how could I like or dislike it? Christianity (and many other religions) use a fear/reward system to control their followers. Do as I say (which god wants me to tell you) and you get to go to the happy place when you die or you will go to the bad place and be burned and tormented for eternity. Don't eat pork or... Don't (fill in your denominations rules) or... Do give us money... believe in Jesus or... it's a fear/reward system. Still waiting -SS <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi S.S. Happy to hear from you. I agree with you about denominations, which is why I believe in a relationship with Jesus Christ, not religion. I did not come to Jesus out of any fear I came out of a need to be forgiven for my sins. I do not serve Him out of a sense of reward, I serve Him because I love Him and have a relationship with Him. I believe most Christians will agree to this, it is a bonus for me to avoid hell which I believe in as much as I do heaven. The beautiful thing about free will is that you can choose to be skeptical about God and I can choose to follow Him. When I say that I pray to God because I have a relationship with Him, it is because I can talk with Him as I talk with others. I have had many instances of answered prayers including miraculous healing, which since you are skeptical of such things wouldn't mean much to you. It does however mean a great deal to me. Prayer isn't all about asking God for various or sundry things. Prayer is about having an intimate relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, although I do believe He supplies all of my needs according to His Perfect Will. The Bible says that the sun shines on the just and the unjust and the rain falls on both groups, one group chooses to follow God, while the other does not. I've always looked at it this way, if what I believe is wrong and there is no afterlife I truly haven't lost as much as someone who doesn't believe. For I will just be worm food at that point and I would have lived a good life. Because if what I believe is true, I live a life in Christ and when I die I go to heaven, therefore avoiding hell. But if an unbeliever dies and what I believe is proven true, they are suffering forever in eternal torment. In His Great Love, ellie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nazim Ali Posted November 13, 2004 Share Posted November 13, 2004 Did Jesus(Peace Be Upon Him) Claim Divinity or Prophethood according to the Bible? Jesus(Peace be upon him) Denied Divinity LUKE 18:19 Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God LUKE 2:52 Jesus grew in wisdom and stature and in favor with God and men. JOHN 8:42 I proceeded forth and came from God, neither came I of myself but he sent me. GOD IS ALL KNOWING BUT JESUS(PBUH) WASN'T Matt 24:36 But of that day and hour no man know, not the angels which are in heaven, nor the son, but only the father. But God knows all, since Jesus does not know of the day of judgment he is not all-knowing and therefore not God Although Jesus performed miracles he admitted that his power was not his own John 5:19 I can of mine own self do nothing Matt 12:28 I case out devils by the spirit of God Luke 22:43 An angel appeared to Jesus and strengthened him God does not have a God but Jesus did have a God. Jon 20:17 I ascend unto my father and your father, and to my God and your God. Matt 27:46 My God My God why hast thou forsaken me? Luke 6:12 One day Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray and spent the night praying to God. Hebrews 5:7 During Jesus days on earth, he offered prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him. God does not lose power and if someone drains him of power he would know who had done it. Mark 5: 25-32 When she heard about Jesus, she came up behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak, because she thought, If I just touch his clothes, I will be healed. Immediately her bleeding stopped and she felt in her body that she was freed from her suffering. At once Jesus realized that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked, Who touched my clothes? But Jesus kept looking around to see who had done it. God is an invisible spirit but Jesus was flesh and blood. John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only. No one is greater than God and no one can direct him But Jesus acknowledged someone greater than himself. John 14:28 My father is greater than I. I started reading the Bible and I also started reading articles online, so I looked up these verses myself to make sure they werent made up. Jesus(PBUH) claimed Prophethood according to the Bible Luke 7:16 "Great fear swept the crowd, and they praised God, saying " A mighty prophet has risen among us" and, "We have seen the hand of God at work today." The report of what Jesus had done that day spread all over Judea and even out across its borders" Luke 24:19 "what things?" Jesus asked. "The things that happened to Jesus, the man from Nazareth," they said. "He was a prophet who did wonderful miracles. He was a mighty teacher, highly regarded by both God and all the people" John 6:14 "When the people saw this miraculous sign, they exclaimed, " Surely, he is the prophet we have been expecting!" Hebrews 3:1 " And so, dear brothers and sisters who belong to God and are bound for heaven, think about this Jesus whom we declared to be Gods Messenger and High Priest. For he was faithful to God, who appointed him, just as Moses served faithfully and was entrusted withs Gods entire house" Luke 13:33 "Yes, today, tomorrow, and the next day I must proceed on my way. For it wouldnt do for a prophet of God to be killed except in Jerusalem!" Acts 3:13 "For it is the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of all our ancestors who has brought glory to his servant Jesus by doing this" Matthew 12:18 " Look at my Servant, whom I have chosen" As you can see from these verses, Jesus(Peace be upon him) claimed to be a Prophet according to the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steward George Posted November 13, 2004 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,465 Topics Per Day: 1.25 Content Count: 27,793 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,513 Days Won: 130 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Share Posted November 13, 2004 Hello Nazim, These are the typical verses pulled out by Islamic apologetics teachers, but when you read a few verses in any set of Scripture you can always create a "slanted picture". Now did Jesus claim to be God? Let's look: Exodux 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then what happened when Jesus said -- I AM! John 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. Why did they pick up stones? For blasphemy! He just called himself -- I AM -- God! There's many instances of Scripture where the divinity of Jesus is clearly expressed. Out of curiousity are you a Muslim? Your brother in Christ with much agape love, George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted November 13, 2004 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,987 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted November 13, 2004 So are you saying that prayers can be answered? That God can or will sometimes say yes or can be bargined or pleaded with? This would conflict with the "free will" theory. Or are you saying that God already knows and has already decided long before you ever pray (omniscience), which also conflicts with "free will" and makes prayer a vain attempt to plead with God when you already know he has chosen the outcome. I suppose you could say that God knows the outcome but doesn't chose or influence it, which would give back the "free will" theory but then still makes praying a waste of time... I'm confused. Greetings SS, The advantage a "believer" has over the "unbeliever" is the Holy Spirit who comes to reside in him. You are confused because you lack the resource (Holy Spirit) for understanding "spiritual" things. So these things will ALWAYS be a mystery or confusing to you. Instead of attempting to "look into" the more mundane aspects of man's relationship with God, what you need to do is to investigate the reality OR non-reality of Jesus Christ. If you can prove to yourself that He isn't who He says He is, then you can go on your merry way, never looking back. This is the ONLY sure way of determining if the Bible is true. Blessings, Dad Ernie <{POST_SNAPBACK}> SS I find it interesting that you copy/paste several other's replies to you and you did not touch Dad Ernie's. I agree with Dad Earnie as to your position concerning Christ. The first thing you need to do is decide if Jesus the Christ is for real and is who he says he is. If not then the rest is junk, and if so........ I think you should be able to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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