What is (are) God's purpose(s) in allowing suffering?

[GoldenEagle]

This discussion is two parts:

A. What is (are) God's purpose(s) in allowing suffering in your view?

B. Here's an interesting perspective from a guy named JD. What do you think of JD's perspective?

The purpose of God allowing suffering is for us to better know Him. Romans 5:3-5 help make this clear and even tells us why we are to rejoice in our sufferings. Looking to the Old Testament, however, the most obvious example of God allowing suffering is the life of Job. In that case, Job had done nothing wrong that caused suffering in his life. He was upright in God’s eyes and God allowed Satan to attack him. God never explains “why” he allowed such suffering, but the book of Job does explain “how”. Ultimately, we get to see how Job comes to have a more clear faith in God and his uprightness is confirmed by his steadfastness in the face of adversity. The New Testament does help explain the “why” of such suffering.

First, we need to look at God’s purpose in salvation and for that we look to the Great Commission in Matt. 28 which states that God wants to make disciples of all nations. The basic definition of a disciple is found in John 8:31, which is obedience. This obedience results in bearing fruit which brings glory to God as stated in John 15:8. Going back to Romans 5, we can see that we should rejoice in our sufferings because the result is perseverance, character and hope. Since we believe in Romans 8:28 where God tells us that all things work together for our good, we should follow that string of perseverance and suffering. 2 Peter 1:5-8 tells us that perseverance is necessary so that we will be productive and effective in our knowledge of God. James 1:2-5 tells us that this perseverance is necessary for us to become mature and complete which also ties with the Great Commission of becoming a disciple. God’s desire is for us to be his disciple, and perseverance is necessary in the process, and this perseverance is produced through suffering. Suffering comes through a variety of channels, but all of it is for our good.

[Guest]

B. Here's an interesting perspective from a guy named JD. What do you think of JD's perspective?

Amen~!

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. Matthew 16:24

[Jayyycuuup]

GoldenEagle

A. What is (are) God's purpose(s) in allowing suffering in your view?

I will let the scripture speak for itself.

Romans 5:3-5

"More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us."

James 1:2-4

"Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing."

John 16:33

"I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”

B. Here's an interesting perspective from a guy named JD. What do you think of JD's perspective?

Amen, that (IMO) Is right on!

Thanks for sharing !

God bless you,

Love to you in Him

[Mcgyver]

Yep...

And I think that there is a larger principle at work that ties in directly to what JD wrote...

If God were to remove all suffering, then of needs He would also have to remove the ability of men to make decisions either for good or evil. He would have to remove that "free will" that He has given us from the beginning; that very same will that caused Adam to eat of the fruit in the garden.

Allow me to illustrate what I mean here: Take the example of a "third world" country wherein the citizens suffer extreme want, while the leader grows wealthy from corruption and greed...where people starve while sumptuous banquets are served in the palace.

In this example, the leader (let's call him "fearless leader") of this country is largely responsible for the suffering of his people. Instead of moving money back into the economy to improve the condition of his people, he lines his pockets from greed.

If God were to remove all suffering, then He would also have to involuntarily remove the desire within "fearless leader's" heart to be greedy, and in the process remove the ability to choose to be greedy in the first place. He would have to remove "fearless leader's" will and choice.

From what I see, God does not desire either mindless servants nor some kind of robot...He desires a relationship as a father to His children...and He uses the suffering that entered the world as a result of sin to accomplish His purpose.

Hope that this has made sense!

[Believer112]

This discussion is two parts:

A. What is (are) God's purpose(s) in allowing suffering in your view?

B. Here's an interesting perspective from a guy named JD. What do you think of JD's perspective?

The purpose of God allowing suffering is for us to better know Him. Romans 5:3-5 help make this clear and even tells us why we are to rejoice in our sufferings. Looking to the Old Testament, however, the most obvious example of God allowing suffering is the life of Job. In that case, Job had done nothing wrong that caused suffering in his life. He was upright in God’s eyes and God allowed Satan to attack him. God never explains “why” he allowed such suffering, but the book of Job does explain “how”. Ultimately, we get to see how Job comes to have a more clear faith in God and his uprightness is confirmed by his steadfastness in the face of adversity. The New Testament does help explain the “why” of such suffering.

First, we need to look at God’s purpose in salvation and for that we look to the Great Commission in Matt. 28 which states that God wants to make disciples of all nations. The basic definition of a disciple is found in John 8:31, which is obedience. This obedience results in bearing fruit which brings glory to God as stated in John 15:8. Going back to Romans 5, we can see that we should rejoice in our sufferings because the result is perseverance, character and hope. Since we believe in Romans 8:28 where God tells us that all things work together for our good, we should follow that string of perseverance and suffering. 2 Peter 1:5-8 tells us that perseverance is necessary so that we will be productive and effective in our knowledge of God. James 1:2-5 tells us that this perseverance is necessary for us to become mature and complete which also ties with the Great Commission of becoming a disciple. God’s desire is for us to be his disciple, and perseverance is necessary in the process, and this perseverance is produced through suffering. Suffering comes through a variety of channels, but all of it is for our good.

God allows suffering because Adam opened the door to it. God encourages us to live through it and give us the reasons why.

[gdemoss]

For it became him, for whom [are] all things, and by whom [are] all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

I am being made perfect by the things I suffer. I did not understand this for a long time but in hindsight I get it. Suffering has done me a lot of good. Though Jesus never failed and sinned like I have, he was still made perfect through sufferings. By having been in human form and tested himself, he is able to help people like me who are being proven. And he does an awesome job of standing by me, even when everyone else flees! Praise His Holy Name!

[2ndRateMind]

The problem with the idea that suffering is (ultimately) for our own individual good, is the potential for a complacent blindness to avoidable suffering when it occurs in the world and happens to others.

It seems to me that suffering is generally an indication that we are doing something wrong, or have yet to do something right, or both.

If God 'allows' suffering, then it is in the sense of a warning signal that we are collectively sinful. If suffering strengthens people, then that is a secondary effect and not it's primary purpose.There was an ancient and erroneous belief, which crops up in the Bible from time to time, that one's suffering was caused by one's sins, and was punishment for them. The fact is though, in most cases, suffering is caused by someone else's sin. We need to be far more sensitive to the idea that, through our own lifestyles, excessive as they are in Western civilisation, we are causing distress elsewhere in the world.

But it may well be that God does not 'allow' suffering, in the sense that He could end it, and chooses not to. It could be that he relies on us to cease to allow suffering, where we can end it, and work on minimising it, where we can't.

I think the ball is in our court, not God's.

[Jayyycuuup]

The problem with the idea that suffering is (ultimately) for our own individual good, is the potential for a complacent blindness to avoidable suffering when it occurs in the world and happens to others.

It seems to me that suffering is generally an indication that we are doing something wrong, or have yet to do something right, or both.

If God 'allows' suffering, then it is in the sense of a warning signal that we are collectively sinful. If suffering strengthens people, then that is a secondary effect and not it's primary purpose.There was an ancient and erroneous belief, which crops up in the Bible from time to time, that one's suffering was caused by one's sins, and was punishment for them. The fact is though, in most cases, suffering is caused by someone else's sin. We need to be far more sensitive to the idea that, through our own lifestyles, excessive as they are in Western civilisation, we are causing distress elsewhere in the world.

But it may well be that God does not 'allow' suffering, in the sense that He could end it, and chooses not to. It could be that he relies on us to cease to allow suffering, where we can end it, and work on minimising it, where we can't.

I think the ball is in our court, not God's.

I think there are many other things to consider as well, there is Gods will for our lives, our own free-will, and what Satan tries to lay out before us. I am not so sure that it is due to sin that causes our tribulation. Christ proclaims we will have tribulation in the world, and not not indicate it is because of our individual sin. So I think that is an assesment rather than a complete truth. Taking this a bit further, people also have their own free-will, and often deal others a pretty horrible hand, was it our sin that caused this? Or could this just be life? None the less God takes care of us so there is nothing to be affraid of.

God bless you

Love to you in Him/

[GoldenEagle]

A. What is (are) God's purpose(s) in allowing suffering in your view?

What is (are) God’s purpose(s) in allowing suffering?

First regarding suffering the good news is that our suffering in this life is only for a short time when we look at the rest of eternity. (1 Pet. 5:10)

For God’s Glory:

Job is the ultimate story of suffering besides that of Christ. Job lost everything including his children, riches, standing in society. And the incredible aspect of Job’s story is that he did nothing wrong and yet suffered. Yet God’s purpose was to glorify His name in Job. The pain and suffering Job experienced allowed God to share with Job who He was and what He was about.

Chastisement by God:

Sometimes people suffer because His children whom God loves He chastises and rebukes for the purpose of repentance. (Heb. 12:6-8, Rev. 3:19) The purpose is as well for cleansing of our lives of unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)

For the Lord Jesus Christ & Furthering of the Gospel:

Jesus healed a man named Lazarus and yet he explained that the man had the sickness for the glory of God. (John 11:2-4) Later it is understood that some who saw this and other miracles believed in Jesus. (John 11:45) Some in particular believed because of Jesus healing Lazarus. (John 12:11) God was in complete control and had a purpose in allowing the sickness.

The story of Jim Elliott comes to mind. Jim was a missionary to natives who never heard the Gospel. They ended up killing Jim. Yet, years later many came to believe and trust in Jesus Christ.

We are told that those who are in Jesus Christ will suffer persecution. (2 Tim 3:12) Jesus Himself promised suffering that if anyone would come after Him they were to deny themselves, take up their cross daily, and follow in His footsteps. (Luke 9:23)

God’s Instruction and Teaching in Suffering:

God is at war with Satan waging the battles for the souls on men. As soldiers of Jesus Christ we’re to endure hardness at times. (2 Tim. 2:3) One of the fruits of the spirit is longsuffering. (Gal. 5:22) Sometimes I wonder if we as Christians gloss over that one when reading the others?

David himself, the man after God’s own heart, said that perhaps it is for good that bad things happened to him so he might learn God’s ways. (Ps. 119:71)

The of course there is the fact that all things work for good for those who love the Lord and are called according to His purposes. (Rom. 8:28) And yet we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us. (Phil. 4:13)

Often God doesn’t want to change our circumstances but He wants to change our hearts.

Contrasting This World and Life What is to Come:

In Revelation 21:4 we’re told in the Bible there will be a time where there will be no more tears and death will be no more. There won’t be mourning, crying, or any pain any longer as God creates the New Heaven and New Earth. So perhaps in this life there is suffering to contrast with what is to come?

Conclusion:

If God were to remove all suffering then He would also remove the ability of men to make decisions for good or evil. It would almost be like nullifying the free will that allowed Adam/Eve to choose to sin in the Garden of Eden. Through one man sin entered the world and through One Son of Man God provided a way (John14:6) for the creation of God to become children of God (John 1:12, 1 John3:1). God doesn’t desire mindless servants or a form of robots. God desires a relationship with His creation. God desires to adopt us into His family and become co-heirs with Christ. (Rom. 8:17) God uses the suffering of the world as a result of sin to accomplish His purposes.

Thoughts anyone?

In Christ,

GE

[missmuffet]

One of the reasons that God allows suffering is to bring us to Him.