A Forgotten Day & a Forgotten Country

[jcm]

First you have complained about regulation, now you are complaining for a lack of regulation? This isn't a way to make a case, Steff.

nebula, steff wasn't complaining about a lack of regulation when he posted this

In 2003 there is no law regulating conduct that is so ridiculous that someone won't introduce it in the U.S. Congress or some state legislature.

What he meant was that even the most ridiculous laws were being introduced.

Carry on.

[serotta]

I think Nebula makes a good point about this argument. Steff, to think that the world can stand still is not realistic. I agree that there is too much federal government. I agree that we are are expected to pay too much in federal taxes, and that those taxes are not used wisely. But, I think what we need to be talking about are realistic ways to bring our federal government back into balance. We need to talk about what we need to do to encourage more "citizen politicians" rather than the career politicians we are saddled with now (and admit that McCain-Feingold just made it worse).

I also disagree that the US was not feared in 1886. "Fear" that was born from respect. Much like the fear of the Lord is a good thing, the fear of the US is also a good thing for the world community. Do we want a world dominated by something like the EU, countries where weekly church attendance is at 7%, or by a nation like the US?

[AnotherTraveler]

These links, some with quotes, show that France limits freedom of speech in various ways and from various approaches.

Certain speech is a felony under French law while protected speech under US law, and the sentences are in years of prison time.

Certain speech is a lesser crime, punishable with short term jail time and fines.

Certain fines are levied for not registering with a governing authority prior to speaking about certain issues or people.

France (as well as all the EU countries) is under not only French law but EU law, and the squeeze is on to restrict and in certain cases eliminate speech that offends.

You will actually find the court in France trying to legislate what comes from the USA, but our Supreme Court blocked this attempt to limit free speech coming from the USA.

http://www.frenchlaw.com/criminal_law.htm

http://www.fact-index.com/f/fr/freedom_of_...ch.html#Freedom of speech in the European Union

http://www.edri.org/issues/freedom/jurisprudence

In France the owner of a website was convicted to pay a penalty of 450 Euro for publishing personal data without first registering with the Data Protection Authority, the CNIL. On 25 February the appeal-court of Lyon confirmed the earlier ruling, even though the judges decided to suspend payment of the penalty.

"Remarkably the website-owner, Roger Gonnet, is a former member of Scientology who denounces the organisation as a cult and mentions names and other data about members on his website. One of these members complained. The first court ordered him to pay a penalty of 450 Euro, plus 450 Euro compensation for attorney costs and a symbolical 1 Euro compensation for general damages. The appeal-court rejected the extra compensation, because the plaintiff could not prove the damages."

http://www.edri.org/issues/governance

"EDRI-member IRIS and the French Human Rights League (LDH) have sent a brief to the French Constitutional council regarding the unconstitutionality of the French transposition of the E-commerce Directive (Loi pour la confiance dans l'economie numerique or LEN). On 18 May 2004 the French socialist MPs submitted the finalised law to the Constitutional Council, following the public advice from the two organisations.

The parliamentary opposition uses three of the four provisions pointed out by IRIS and LDH: status of email (not defined as private correspondence), privatisation of justice (through notice and take down procedure) and the introduction of different periods of limitation for on-line and off-line content. In the proposed law there is no time bar for offences identified in the press law (defamation, racist speech, holocaust denial, etc.) if they result from an on-line publication, while the statute of limitations is three months if previously published in any other medium."

http://www.informationblast.com/Freedom_of_speech.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/freespeech/artic...,346696,00.html

"The problem for international internet lawyers is that the auction site is legal in the US under the first amendment, which guarantees freedom of speech, and illegal in France under a section of the penal code which prohibits the sale of goods inciting violence or racism."

http://www.encyclopedia4u.com/f/freedom-of-speech.html

http://www.justice.gouv.fr/anglais/europe/aantirac.htm

http://www.infosatellite.com/news/2001/11/...hoo_france.html

"It was announced by the media yesterday that a U.S. federal judge has ruled that Yahoo! didn't have the obligation to comply with French laws governing Internet content."

http://www.tjcenter.org/express.html

"Understanding the democratic power of the Internet, governments everywhere want to control their own citizens' access to it. In a new and more dangerous wrinkle, however, a French court is seeking to control information coming out of the United States."

http://www.worldmagblog.com/archives/005851.html

"France's government has approved a draft law that would punish "insults" against homosexuality and homosexuals."

[Leonard]

I'm afraid I have to agree with most of Steff's first post (it is sooo painful for me to agree with her!). Our liberties are severely eroded, but other nations' have curtailed liberties (or never enjoyed them at all) to an even greater extent. Let us not measure ourselves by other nations, but by what we used to be!

[Guest Chixsngr]

This is what I mean and what I am trying to understand about the current feeling in the body of Christ. Elsewhere on this site this collection of the laws of Christ was posted. (I will post at the bottom.) When I read this, what we are told to do becomes so clear. Are we being lead astray. Are there false prophets among us, leading us away from Jesus, as we were told would happen in the last days? Aren't we supposed to not be concerned with the timing, but to do God's work until the Lord comes again?

I am losing heart with the church and that's kind of why I'm here. I am afraid we are not pleasing God. Please read Christ's words and tell me why the church should support this war?

Is there no one who will respond to this?

[nebula]

Chixsngr -

The best way to get a response is to start a new thread.

Your topic is a sidetrack from the one being discussed; that is why it is being "ignored."

OK?

[nebula]

First you have complained about regulation, now you are complaining for a lack of regulation? This isn't a way to make a case, Steff.

nebula, steff wasn't complaining about a lack of regulation when he posted this

In 2003 there is no law regulating conduct that is so ridiculous that someone won't introduce it in the U.S. Congress or some state legislature.

What he meant was that even the most ridiculous laws were being introduced.

Carry on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"In 2003 there is no law regulating conduct . . ."

[ted]

I'm afraid I have to agree with most of Steff's first post (it is sooo painful for me to agree with her!).

Sorry!

I don't mean to laugh but steff's a Brother! (ehhh...right? )

Anyway, I agree with some of the stuff there but you simply can't compare the country then to what we have now. It would be nice if bread was a penny a loaf again too! So much has changed here and abroad.

t.

[jcm]

"In 2003 there is no law regulating conduct . . ."

The meaning is in the whole sentence, not just the first part. It's like saying "There is nothing so crazy he wouldn't do." That means he would do just about any crazy thing.

[Steff]

We Libertarians want to return to the America that promised every individual the freedom to pursue his own dreams. That was an America that said to people:

It doesn't matter who you are or where you come from or what you were there. You might have been the king of your country or the lowest member of society. But once in America you will be a free, responsible, sovereign individual.

No one will ask for your papers. No one will stick a number on you. No one will extort a percentage of your income as the price of getting a job. You will be free to pursue the life you've always dreamed of.

And I believe that's the meaning of the Statue of Liberty