Passover and the Lord's supper communion

[Widor1]

There exists no regular event schedules in God's Word.... and nothing that says we should emulate Jewish feasts and schedules

1 Cor 11:26

26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes.

NKJV

I really appreciate your words on this. I grew up celebrating Passover and all the other Jewish holidays, and since becoming a Christian I still struggle with how to celebrate these. I have been studying the Lord's Supper with regards to the frequency of it, and this scripture really speaks to me. "For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup..." I agree, I can't find anything that either limits or mandates such things as these. With Passover, and especially Yom Kippur, I did not feel that me abstaining from leavened or fasting were necessary anymore. Reading this entire thread has definitely given me a lot to chew over, and I look forward to studying it more in depth

Edited March 30, 2013 by Widor1

[enoob57]

There exists no regular event schedules in God's Word.... and nothing that says we should emulate Jewish feasts and schedules

1 Cor 11:26

26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes.

NKJV

I really appreciate your words on this. I grew up celebrating Passover and all the other Jewish holidays, and since becoming a Christian I still struggle with how to celebrate these. I have been studying the Lord's Supper with regards to the frequency of it, and this scripture really speaks to me. "For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup..." I agree, I can't find anything that either limits or mandates such things as these. With Passover, and especially Yom Kippur, I did not feel that me abstaining from leavened or fasting were necessary anymore. Reading this entire thread has definitely given me a lot to chew over, and I look forward to studying it more in depth

God has said it does not!

Col 2:16-23

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations — 21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," 22 which all concern things which perish with the using — according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh

NKJV

Loved one the histories of the Chosen People of God to bring about The Body of the Savior of The World are indeed rich with context and proper Biblical interpretation!

But we are a people born where ever we are at that time-> born in Him... are focus is to be forward as this clearly teaches Col 3-> especially noting where our focus is to be

Col 3:1-3

3 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting

at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.

NKJV

so I am cautious of anyone in religious attempt to gain my focus elsewhere! Especially in light of this

Col 3:10-11

10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who

created him, 11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian,

Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

NKJV

Love, Steven

[Botz]

Let's use the verse you quoted. This is in reference to Pesach, a Jewish feast, The statement "as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup" implies that 'you' as a believer are celebrating it. Whenever 'you' observe Passover, you proclaim the Lord's death. And, we should be doing this till He comes back.

20 When you come together, it is not the Lord's supper that you eat. 21 For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes hungry, another gets drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise 23 For you. Do this in remembrance of me." 25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying,"This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

He equates the Lord's supper with Passover. And in the context of the story, the bread and the cup are in reference to the Passover celebration the night of Messiah's arrest.

So to use the verse as you did makes no sense. It proves you wrong. First, of course there exists regular schedule events in God's Word. The whole bible is God's word, and that includes the OT. To claim God does not like, nor use regular scheduled events would tell me you don't know much of God. Second, the very verse you used proved Paul taught his audience that they would be observing a regularly scheduled event called Pesach. That when they did observe it, they should remember the Lord's death. And when Paul identified until He comes, he made it clear that the followers of Messiah would be observing it till the return.

Are you saying that the Passover meal is the Lord's supper that Paul taught?

Nope...for me the Jury is out on that one, I am still adding the pieces together..when I read what Paul writes about breaking bread together

which could be a daily occurance, then that is not a ref to Passover, yet they gather in the name of the L-rd.

The full passage reads:

17But in giving this instruction, I do not praise you, because you come together not for the better but for the worse. 18For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part I believe it. 19For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you. 20Therefore when you meet together, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper, 21for in your eating each one takes his own supper first; and one is hungry and another is drunk. 22What! Do you not have houses in which to eat and drink? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? In this I will not praise you.

The Lord’s Supper

23For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.

27Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

33So then, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 34If anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, so that you will not come together for judgment. The remaining matters I will arrange when I come.

So far I think Paul is perhaps covering two things, one that incorporates the Passover and the breaking of bread...I am unsure exactly how it all gels

in this passage, and have struggled to unravel a cohesive understanding...perhaps, and it is only a perhaps...the breaking of bread, or just gathering

together in each others houses for supper does represent a symbolic re-enactment of the last supper that has become very laissé-faire, and the

Passover itself is a wider version of a daily event, therefore in a sense of greater import etc.

I think everything hinges around Jesus words and whether they refer to literally remembering Him at every 'breaking' bread and drinking wine,

or whether it is specific to what is taking place within the context of Passover...and then does the 'breaking' give a clue that it is with 'unleavened

bread (Matzo) or is that an expression that simply means a meal.

What strikes me is that either way these days we generally do not break bread with the Body, and we most certainly do not celebrate Passover

and the connection that Paul is making is to 'discerning the Body and staying healthy'...realising that there are consequences, not as immediate

as Annanias and Sapphira perhaps, but nevertheless important in a disciplinary way that is often over-looked.

If you have more insight I would like to explore it.

[Qnts2]

Let's use the verse you quoted. This is in reference to Pesach, a Jewish feast, The statement "as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup" implies that 'you' as a believer are celebrating it. Whenever 'you' observe Passover, you proclaim the Lord's death. And, we should be doing this till He comes back.

20 When you come together, it is not the Lord's supper that you eat. 21 For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes hungry, another gets drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise 23 For you. Do this in remembrance of me." 25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying,"This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

He equates the Lord's supper with Passover. And in the context of the story, the bread and the cup are in reference to the Passover celebration the night of Messiah's arrest.

So to use the verse as you did makes no sense. It proves you wrong. First, of course there exists regular schedule events in God's Word. The whole bible is God's word, and that includes the OT. To claim God does not like, nor use regular scheduled events would tell me you don't know much of God. Second, the very verse you used proved Paul taught his audience that they would be observing a regularly scheduled event called Pesach. That when they did observe it, they should remember the Lord's death. And when Paul identified until He comes, he made it clear that the followers of Messiah would be observing it till the return.

Are you saying that the Passover meal is the Lord's supper that Paul taught?

Nope...for me the Jury is out on that one, I am still adding the pieces together..when I read what Paul writes about breaking bread together

which could be a daily occurance, then that is not a ref to Passover, yet they gather in the name of the L-rd.

The full passage reads:

17But in giving this instruction, I do not praise you, because you come together not for the better but for the worse. 18For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part I believe it. 19For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you. 20Therefore when you meet together, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper, 21for in your eating each one takes his own supper first; and one is hungry and another is drunk. 22What! Do you not have houses in which to eat and drink? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? In this I will not praise you.

The Lord’s Supper

23For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.

27Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

33So then, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 34If anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, so that you will not come together for judgment. The remaining matters I will arrange when I come.

So far I think Paul is perhaps covering two things, one that incorporates the Passover and the breaking of bread...I am unsure exactly how it all gels

in this passage, and have struggled to unravel a cohesive understanding...perhaps, and it is only a perhaps...the breaking of bread, or just gathering

together in each others houses for supper does represent a symbolic re-enactment of the last supper that has become very laissé-faire, and the

Passover itself is a wider version of a daily event, therefore in a sense of greater import etc.

I think everything hinges around Jesus words and whether they refer to literally remembering Him at every 'breaking' bread and drinking wine,

or whether it is specific to what is taking place within the context of Passover...and then does the 'breaking' give a clue that it is with 'unleavened

bread (Matzo) or is that an expression that simply means a meal.

What strikes me is that either way these days we generally do not break bread with the Body, and we most certainly do not celebrate Passover

and the connection that Paul is making is to 'discerning the Body and staying healthy'...realising that there are consequences, not as immediate

as Annanias and Sapphira perhaps, but nevertheless important in a disciplinary way that is often over-looked.

If you have more insight I would like to explore it.

The term, 'Breaking bread', refers to a meal. At the beginning of a meal, in Judaism, bread is broken and God is blessed, including Passover when Matzah is broken.

I believe the error in 1 Cor is that some people came early and gorged the food, guzzled the wine, before the rest came so the rest of the people walked in to see a group where some were sick from eating to much, and some were sleeping from too much wine. These who came on time were left hungry and with nothing to drink. This is not some big judgement from God.

The communion is actually Passover, because Passover is a remembrance of Jesus death. But from Passover, just a few days later, we celebrate the first fruit wave offering, which is the resurrection.

The church which has communion multiple times a year, or even multiple times a month, is celebrating His death, His death, His death. And neglects His resurrection, which is only done once a year.

Acts 26:22So, having obtained help from God, I stand to this day testifying both to small and great, stating nothing but what the Prophets and Moses said was going to take place; ²³ that the Christ was to suffer, and that by reason of His resurrection from the dead He would be the first to proclaim light both to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.”

How important is the resurrection?

Romans 1:

1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, ² which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, ³ concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, ⁴ who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, ⁵ through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake, ⁶ among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;

1 Cor 15:³ For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, ⁴ and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

The death is not declared separately from the resurrection. Yet, communion declares His death, without the resurrection if done out of order. We would not be and could not be saved without the death, and resurrection. So death alone, without the resurrection, is not sufficient for salvation.

Romans 10:8But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, ⁹ that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

1 Cor 15:13But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; ¹⁴ and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain

Christianity is not about the death of Jesus, Christianity is actually about the resurrection, so the death must not be declared without also declaring the resurrection.

So, my conclusion is, if the communion is not Passover, or is celebrated multiple times a year, then Easter also, must be celebrated multiple times a year, as there is no command to celebrate only once a year. The memory of the death must come with the memory of the resurrection. Like the actual events of Passover, and first fruits wave offering/resurrection, are within days of each other.

[He giveth more grace]

I profess to be no teacher, but I believe the the Passover Seder, the Lord's Supper, and breaking of bread is different and distinct.

The Seder was to be eaten with bitter herbs in remembrance of the Jews bitter enslavement in Egypt, no mention of bitter herbs in Lord's Supper

The Seder was to be eaten in haste, which in Christianity we are instructed to sit and rest.

I believe that the Lord set the precedence of the Lord's Supper in the Gospel.

Breaking of bread is daily supper, church could gather in the home to eat together, but is simply dining

Again, no teacher.

[nebula]

The church which has communion multiple times a year, or even multiple times a month, is celebrating His death, His death, His death. And neglects His resurrection, which is only done once a year. ...

Great observation! And a good point.

[Qnts2]

I profess to be no teacher, but I believe the the Passover Seder, the Lord's Supper, and breaking of bread is different and distinct.

The Seder was to be eaten with bitter herbs in remembrance of the Jews bitter enslavement in Egypt, no mention of bitter herbs in Lord's Supper

The Seder was to be eaten in haste, which in Christianity we are instructed to sit and rest.

I believe that the Lord set the precedence of the Lord's Supper in the Gospel.

Breaking of bread is daily supper, church could gather in the home to eat together, but is simply dining

Again, no teacher.

In the OT/Tenakh, a person must be physically ritually circumcised to participate (eating the lamb).

In the NT, Jesus said whenever we eat this bread and drink this wine, is to do so in remembrance of Him. In my view, the bread and wine is only in the Passover seder. I call this the NT Passover, as it changes. It is still Passover, as Jesus used more then one symbol to point to Himself. But, the NT Passover is for those who have a circumcised heart.

The OT/Tenakh Passover is to be said in first person. It is celebrated because of what God did for 'me', when He brought 'me' out of Egypt, the house of bondage.

The NT Passover must also be said in first person. It is celebrated because of what Jesus did for 'me' when He bought 'me' from bondage.

Either one has a special necessity to be in first person. If I do not include myself in first person with what God did for the children of Israel, I would not have been delivered and included in that covenant. If I do not believe that Jesus died for my sins, I would not be delivered in included in the New Covenant. Passover is first person, as God did this for 'me/us'.

And finally, during the Passover seder of today, we dip twice, but in Jesus day, there was only one time they dipped in a bowl. That one time was the bitter herbs, when Jesus said, Matthew 26:23And He answered, “He who dipped his hand with Me in the bowl is the one who will betray Me.' Jesus and Judas were dipping at the same time, into the bowl of bitter herbs.

[Fez]

The church which has communion multiple times a year, or even multiple times a month, is celebrating His death, His death, His death. And neglects His resurrection, which is only done once a year. ...

Great observation! And a good point.

I tend to disagree.

Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me."

Luk 22:20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

Joh 6:50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.

Joh 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh."

Joh 6:52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"

Joh 6:53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

Joh 6:54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

Joh 6:55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

Joh 6:56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

Joh 6:57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me.

Joh 6:58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever."

It is a celebration of more than death.

It does not just remember His death. It also celebrates our new covenant with God, and the fulfillment of the law.

[Qnts2]

The church which has communion multiple times a year, or even multiple times a month, is celebrating His death, His death, His death. And neglects His resurrection, which is only done once a year. ...

Great observation! And a good point.

I tend to disagree.

Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me."

Luk 22:20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

Joh 6:50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.

Joh 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh."

Joh 6:52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"

Joh 6:53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

Joh 6:54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

Joh 6:55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

Joh 6:56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

Joh 6:57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me.

Joh 6:58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever."

It is a celebration of more than death.

It does not just remember His death. It also celebrates our new covenant with God, and the fulfillment of the law.

If you don't mind, let me bring Passover into this.

In the story of Passover, the final plague was the death of the first born, in every home and family in Egypt. All first born were condemned to die that night. But, the children of Israel were told to take the blood of a lamb to put on the door posts of the house, and the death angel would pass over that house. All were condemned to death, and the only reason the first born of the children of Israel did not actually die, was because the blood caused the death angel to pass over. Had they not applied the blood, the first born would have died. So, the blood on the door posts caused those who were condemned to die to live instead.

So, Passover is a celebration of what God did to give us life, deliverance, redemption and freedom. In the NT, we were dead in our sins and Jesus said He came to give life.

[Fez]

If you don't mind, let me bring Passover into this.

In the story of Passover, the final plague was the death of the first born, in every home and family in Egypt. All first born were condemned to die that night. But, the children of Israel were told to take the blood of a lamb to put on the door posts of the house, and the death angel would pass over that house. All were condemned to death, and the only reason the first born of the children of Israel did not actually die, was because the blood caused the death angel to pass over. Had they not applied the blood, the first born would have died. So, the blood on the door posts caused those who were condemned to die to live instead.

So, Passover is a celebration of what God did to give us life, deliverance, redemption and freedom. In the NT, we were dead in our sins and Jesus said He came to give life.

And that means we are repeating His death only every time we break bread how?