Literal Swords vs Spiritual Weapons

[enoob57]

Noob I say it again, thats not the whole council of God. otherwise, there would be no reason for the rest of the Bible. I mean serious, how do you know what disobedience is without the law? answer that question from those 3 verses.

Pat with all respect to you... I never lead or desired the direction you seemed bent to go!

My original statement

I always find it interesting- how that people in the Grace period go into the law period to justify that activity there back into the Grace period

... interesting! Love, Steven

was about dispensational boundaries which we cross to justify present day activity and views... The law was a tutor yes but that was never in question

in my statement was it? My point was- what was in the OT was for our example to indicate the need for some other way! Which is what The Lord

brought with Him...

1 John 2:15-17

15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world — the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life — is not of the Father

but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

NKJV

I have been by The Lord relieved of all struggle to make this a better place and just make myself a better Person by

imitating His Life in my own! There will be all different degrees of achievement in people and it all depends on how

much they are willing to die to themselves and allow Christ to live in them... Love, Steven

[The_Patriot21]

I think He may have been teaching multiple points, and using them as a tool to get across a broader point yes blessed I agree with you on that point-but the mere fact that He used them and told the disciples to get them, means that He wasn't anti-weapon, if He was, then He would have been a hypocrit if He was against us owning weapons, and then told the disciples to get weapons, regardless of the point he was trying to get across.

Now, Im not suggesting that Jesus is saying its a commandment that we all need to go out and buy a gun. Thats not what Im saying at all. Im saying, from that passage, that Jesus was not against the owning of swords, or against self defense. I think it fits in with the rest of the Bible-especially the verses listed above, that allows Christians to own weapons, and to use them in defense of their families or those to weak to defend themselves. If I were to use this entire passage to validate my beliefs, then I would be doing the same thing enoob is doing-Basing my entire beliefs off of one verse, and ignoring the rest of the Bible, and I would also be missing the point of the passage. Theres more to that scripture then merely owning swords-yes, they were there, no Jesus did not condemn the use of them, but theres a lot more to that passage then just that, and that passage coincides with several other passages of scripture and holds true to several Biblical values, both with self defense, but also with wisdom in using it, as well as the lesson that the answer to everything isnt the sword. Jesus uses that sword, as a lesson to what is in our heart, and that is probably the most important part I pulled out of it.

[enoob57]

I think He may have been teaching multiple points, and using them as a tool to get across a broader point yes blessed I agree with you on that point-but the mere fact that He used them and told the disciples to get them, means that He wasn't anti-weapon, if He was, then He would have been a hypocrit if He was against us owning weapons, and then told the disciples to get weapons, regardless of the point he was trying to get across.

Now, Im not suggesting that Jesus is saying its a commandment that we all need to go out and buy a gun. Thats not what Im saying at all. Im saying, from that passage, that Jesus was not against the owning of swords, or against self defense. I think it fits in with the rest of the Bible-especially the verses listed above, that allows Christians to own weapons, and to use them in defense of their families or those to weak to defend themselves. If I were to use this entire passage to validate my beliefs, then I would be doing the same thing enoob is doing-Basing my entire beliefs off of one verse, and ignoring the rest of the Bible, and I would also be missing the point of the passage. Theres more to that scripture then merely owning swords-yes, they were there, no Jesus did not condemn the use of them, but theres a lot more to that passage then just that, and that passage coincides with several other passages of scripture and holds true to several Biblical values, both with self defense, but also with wisdom in using it, as well as the lesson that the answer to everything isnt the sword. Jesus uses that sword, as a lesson to what is in our heart, and that is probably the most important part I pulled out of it.

I would like to ask you Pat if you are totally dead to self what exactly is there to defend? Love, Steven

[BlessedByTheBest]

I think He may have been teaching multiple points, and using them as a tool to get across a broader point yes blessed I agree with you on that point-but the mere fact that He used them and told the disciples to get them, means that He wasn't anti-weapon, if He was, then He would have been a hypocrit if He was against us owning weapons, and then told the disciples to get weapons, regardless of the point he was trying to get across.

Now, Im not suggesting that Jesus is saying its a commandment that we all need to go out and buy a gun. Thats not what Im saying at all. Im saying, from that passage, that Jesus was not against the owning of swords, or against self defense. I think it fits in with the rest of the Bible-especially the verses listed above, that allows Christians to own weapons, and to use them in defense of their families or those to weak to defend themselves. If I were to use this entire passage to validate my beliefs, then I would be doing the same thing enoob is doing-Basing my entire beliefs off of one verse, and ignoring the rest of the Bible, and I would also be missing the point of the passage. Theres more to that scripture then merely owning swords-yes, they were there, no Jesus did not condemn the use of them, but theres a lot more to that passage then just that, and that passage coincides with several other passages of scripture and holds true to several Biblical values, both with self defense, but also with wisdom in using it, as well as the lesson that the answer to everything isnt the sword. Jesus uses that sword, as a lesson to what is in our heart, and that is probably the most important part I pulled out of it.

i appreciate your insight, and enjoy engaging you to pick your brain on this.

i am blessed by it, as i am sure you are.

thank you. love to you brother.

[The_Patriot21]

blessed, I have enjoyed this discourse, discussing scripture with another believer, regardless of whether we agree 100% or not, is always refreshing, because we both learn from said discussion. Thankyou for the discussion.

noob. I have explained myself several times to you. and asked you a question which you ignored. I have even answered the question you just posed several times. Now, I will not bother to respond to any more of your questions until you answer the question I posed you.

From those 3 verses, what is disobedience.

[enoob57]

blessed, I have enjoyed this discourse, discussing scripture with another believer, regardless of whether we agree 100% or not, is always refreshing, because we both learn from said discussion. Thankyou for the discussion.

noob. I have explained myself several times to you. and asked you a question which you ignored. I have even answered the question you just posed several times. Now, I will not bother to respond to any more of your questions until you answer the question I posed you.

From those 3 verses, what is disobedience.

Justifying carnal weaponry today by OT example

[The_Patriot21]

how do you get that from those 3 verses enoob?

[enoob57]

how do you get that from those 3 verses enoob?

The same way you got from my comment the direction you went! If you would like to set up a debate

with Christians responsiblity in modern Grace period as to violence... I would be more than happy to do so! Love, Steven

[The_Patriot21]

no, your not answering the question noob, your dodging it. From those 3 verses, you cannot define sin. Any sin that you pull out of that, is from your own understanding. Period. You have to have the whole of the Bible, not just 3 verses. You cannot ignore scripture, period.

[Elhanan]

Jesus did not "suggest" to his disciples to get a sword; he commanded that they sell their cloaks and get a sword instead. When Peter hacked the guy's ear off, it is certainly likely that his motive was self defense in order to protect Jesus. While Jesus rebukes Peter for his rash action, he does not tell Peter to get rid of his sword but simply instructs him to put it back in place. How one can construe this passage as figurative only does injustice to the narrative as the narrative gives us the historical record of Jesus' apprehension. Therefore it is appropriate and justifiable to use this passage as a reference point as to whether Jesus condoned the possession and use of weapons for the believer.

2 Cor 10:3-6

3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty

in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God,

bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience

is fulfilled.

NKJV

the whole council of God... Love, Steven

the whole council of God...a time to love and a time to hate,

a time for war and a time for peace.