The Christian Heart

[Khristeeanos]

What is your view of the human heart for a Christian? Wicked or good & holy?

[AmateurPoet03]

Scripture speaks of the heart as deceitful. It is in God, not our own understanding that we are supposed to trust for this reason. Then...I am no scholar, so there is always room for error.

Just some food for thought....

[Jayyycuuup]

Jeremiah 17:9

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it"

[Khristeeanos]

Jeremiah 17:9

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it"

Hi my friend Jacob

I appreciate your reply. I am of the conviction that an Old Testament Scripture may not be reflective of the Christian heart that has the Spirit of God in it. A few verses I would also like to introduce are:

Ezekiel 11:19

¹⁹ I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh.

Luke 8:14-16

¹⁴ The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. ¹⁵ But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.

It would appear that in the Old Covenant God specifically told us He would eventually give us a new and good heart and Jesus seems to say specifically that we have received it. I would like to hear some thoughts on this.

Also to you as well AmateurPoet

I am hoping to have a good discussion, not be a troll.

[Jayyycuuup]

Khristeeanos

I appreciate your reply. I am of the conviction that an Old Testament Scripture may not be reflective of the Christian heart that has the Spirit of God in it. A few verses I would also like to introduce are:

You do realize that the book of Ezekiel is in the Old Testament, correct? Though besides the point- just though I would throw that out there.

Ezekiel 11:19

¹⁹ I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh.

Personally, I do not see the connection. God spoke this to Ezekiel concerning the Land of Israel. Along with that, discussed the manner of reestablishing Israel. (Ezekiel 11:16-17) Therefor is a prophecised (fulfilled) promise of reuniting Israel- so I am lost in how this connects directly to the human heart in and of itself. . . Thoughts?

Luke 8:14-16

¹⁴ The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. ¹⁵ But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.

Luke 8:11 gives an important insight into understanding the parables in Luke 8. "Now the parable is this; the seed is the word of God." So again, concerning the heart in and of itself in this scripture I find hard to see. . . .so some clarity would be nice

My Thoughts

I think in this, it would be better if I would clarify my position so that you know where I am coming from. . .

I believe the heart is wicked (Mathew 15:19) it is the sense of repentance and having a redeemer that makes the difference (Psalm 66:18) We are to put off our old selves (Ephesians 4:22) but we all still sin (1 John 1:8 & Ecclesiastes 7:20) and therefore are without pure hearts (Proverbs 20:9) Hallelujah to the Lord's mercy! (Acts 17:11) For He is faithful in His forgiveness! (1 John 1:9)

Proverbs 4:23

"Above all else, guard your hearts, for everything you do flows from it."

~Though severely off topic, I just wanted to tell you I love your picture! Is very beautiful- most of all you are fishing, lol~

God bless you!

Love to you in Him!

[Qnts2]

I believe it is good and holy, and that is still a surprise to me.

A while back I did a study of our condition after salvation. It was something I believe God prompted me to do with the simple question of 'Who am I'. But the question as I discovered was more, Who am I in Jesus. Thru this, I discovered my view of myself was based more on who I was and not who I am. So this was a rather dramatic change in my thoughts.

Let me start by saying, the first thing I discovered was that when we are saved, we are co-crucified with Messiah, and our old man died. We are not who we were before Jesus. We are new creations. I'm am going to post a series of scripture verses. Yes, there are going to be a lot, but this list is not complete.

Romans 6:4

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 7:4

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Romans 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Ephesians 1

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:14

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Galatians 4

4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

1 John 3:1

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Holy

Romans 11:16

For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Colossians 1

21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Colossians 3:12

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved

2 Timothy 1:9

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Hebrews 3:1

Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

1 Peter 2:5

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 2:9

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Loved

Romans 5:5

And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

[AmateurPoet03]

Jeremiah 17:9

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it"

Hi my friend Jacob

I appreciate your reply. I am of the conviction that an Old Testament Scripture may not be reflective of the Christian heart that has the Spirit of God in it. A few verses I would also like to introduce are:

Ezekiel 11:19

¹⁹ I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh.

Luke 8:14-16

¹⁴ The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. ¹⁵ But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.

It would appear that in the Old Covenant God specifically told us He would eventually give us a new and good heart and Jesus seems to say specifically that we have received it. I would like to hear some thoughts on this.

Also to you as well AmateurPoet

I am hoping to have a good discussion, not be a troll.

It was not my intent to be a troll. Did not mean to come off as one. Merely state my thoughts and leave it at that.

[Jayyycuuup]

I believe it is good and holy, and that is still a surprise to me.

A while back I did a study of our condition after salvation. It was something I believe God prompted me to do with the simple question of 'Who am I'. But the question as I discovered was more, Who am I in Jesus. Thru this, I discovered my view of myself was based more on who I was and not who I am. So this was a rather dramatic change in my thoughts.

Let me start by saying, the first thing I discovered was that when we are saved, we are co-crucified with Messiah, and our old man died. We are not who we were before Jesus. We are new creations. I'm am going to post a series of scripture verses. Yes, there are going to be a lot, but this list is not complete.

Romans 6:4

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 7:4

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Romans 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Ephesians 1

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:14

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Galatians 4

4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

1 John 3:1

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Holy

Romans 11:16

For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Colossians 1

21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Colossians 3:12

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved

2 Timothy 1:9

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Hebrews 3:1

Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

1 Peter 2:5

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 2:9

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Loved

Romans 5:5

And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

I believe it is good and holy, and that is still a surprise to me.

A while back I did a study of our condition after salvation. It was something I believe God prompted me to do with the simple question of 'Who am I'. But the question as I discovered was more, Who am I in Jesus. Thru this, I discovered my view of myself was based more on who I was and not who I am. So this was a rather dramatic change in my thoughts.

Let me start by saying, the first thing I discovered was that when we are saved, we are co-crucified with Messiah, and our old man died. We are not who we were before Jesus. We are new creations. I'm am going to post a series of scripture verses. Yes, there are going to be a lot, but this list is not complete.

Romans 6:4

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 7:4

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Romans 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Ephesians 1

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:14

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Galatians 4

4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

1 John 3:1

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Holy

Romans 11:16

For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Colossians 1

21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Colossians 3:12

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved

2 Timothy 1:9

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Hebrews 3:1

Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

1 Peter 2:5

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 2:9

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Loved

Romans 5:5

And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Lovely scripture about becoming a new creation in Christ, but what about the heart?

Thoughts?

[Khristeeanos]

Jeremiah 17:9

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it"

Hi my friend Jacob

I appreciate your reply. I am of the conviction that an Old Testament Scripture may not be reflective of the Christian heart that has the Spirit of God in it. A few verses I would also like to introduce are:

Ezekiel 11:19

¹⁹ I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh.

Luke 8:14-16

¹⁴ The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. ¹⁵ But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.

It would appear that in the Old Covenant God specifically told us He would eventually give us a new and good heart and Jesus seems to say specifically that we have received it. I would like to hear some thoughts on this.

Also to you as well AmateurPoet

I am hoping to have a good discussion, not be a troll.

It was not my intent to be a troll. Did not mean to come off as one. Merely state my thoughts and leave it at that.

Wow, I am so sorry that my comment appeared directed towards you. I assure it wasn't. I was just trying to let you know that I intend to actually discuss this, not just post & run. I am seeking to further understand why I believe what I believe and see if it truly holds up to a contrary position. Please accept my apology!

[Khristeeanos]

Lovely scripture about becoming a new creation in Christ, but what about the heart?

Thoughts?

My initial thought is that it was Christ who "recreated" us. If we consider that Christ is completely good and holy, wouldn't it then follow that whatever Christ gives is equally as good and holy? Man looks at the outward appearance but God looks at the heart. I am sort of misapplying the Scripture, but I don't think it is too big a leap.