Are people in Heaven?

[Butch5]

Hi butch,

 

Man does have a spirit, but ther is no way your going to understand it.

 

Here are the obvious verses

 

Ro 1:9  For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

 

Ro 2:29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

Ro 8:16  The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 

1Co 2:11  For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

 

1Th 5:23  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

2Ti 4:22  The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit. Grace be with you. Amen.

 

Phm 1:25  The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.

 

Heb 4:12  For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

 

Many including myself have shown to you verses showing that we would be in heaven when our bodies die but you make light of it then just present your opinions as facts when indeed they are not.

 

God bless,

Tony

Dude, which of these passage teaches that a man has a spirit that lives on after death? The word spirit has different meanings and can be used figuratively and metaphorically. You've done nothing more than these other guys. You've just grabbed a few passages that mention spirit without giving any explanation of what of how this spirit is one that live one after a man dies. The Scriptures also talk of a man's heart failing for fear. Would suggest all of those men died? Obviously it's a metaphor. You guys are assuming that the use of the word spirit means some consciousness that lives on after death, yet not one of you has made any attempt to show where the Scriptures teach any such thing. Rather in order to keep the Greek Philosophical ideas you guys ignore the plain teaching of what a soul is and what it consists of. Your interpretation of those passages contradicts what was stated by Solomon, Job, and Moses. You are left with 2 options, either Solomon, Job, and Moses were wrong, or this supposed spirit came into man after they wrote. If it came in after they wrote then you guys should have no problem showing where the Scriptures teach it.

 

You guy also haven't shown that people go into Heaven, that too stem from Greek Philosophy and Gnosticism. Once again that idea was imposed on several passages of Scripture and those were presented. I want to believe you guys know the difference between a fact and an inference.

[enoob57]

 

Question: "What is the human spirit?"

Answer: The human spirit is the incorporeal part of man. The Bible says that the human spirit is the very breath of Almighty God and was breathed into man at the beginning of God’s creation: “Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being” (Genesis 2:7). It is the human spirit that gives us a consciousness of self and other remarkable, though limited, “God-like” qualities. The human spirit includes our intellect, emotions, fears, passions, and creativity. It is this spirit that provides us the unique ability to comprehend and understand (Job 32:8, 18).

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/human-spirit.html#ixzz2fmAa73HT

[Floatingaxe]

 

 

 

Shalom Burch.

 

I am not sure I understand exactly what you are saying.  This is what I have gotten so far from what I have read from your posts:

• You do not believe we have a spirit.
• We are not destined to be in His kingdom, but to rule here on the New Earth.
• We basically "soul sleep" until we are physically resurrected.

Am I correct or am I misunderstanding you?

Hi OneLight,

 

The spirit that we have is God's spirit/breath that is breathed into every living creature. I am saying that when God takes His spirit/breath back there is nothing in a man to live on.

 

We are destined for His kingdom, that Kingdom will be on earth.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by soul sleep. The Scriptures define a soul as a body and the breath/spirit of God. It would seem that when those two are separated there is no more soul to sleep.

When God retrieves His Spirit man is dead and remains dead until God breathes His breath/spirit back into that man at the resurrection.

 

 

Yes, we will be given bodies at the resurrection that will be useful for our time on earth when we rule and reign with Jesus Christ. Those who have died in Christ don't need them at the moment, for they are with Christ in their spiritual bodies.

 

You are futilely trying to oppose the simple scripture that tells us---promises us---that in Christ we never die! So, how can you say we remain dead until the resurrection? No---my physical body returns to dust, but I will live forever in Christ.

 

Dude, I'm the one showing the creation of man and that he doesn't have this spirit you claim. I've asked repeatedly for you guys to show me where Scripture teaches that man has this spirit and as of now neither of you has made an attempt to prove this spirit from Scripture, you've simply presumed it exists. Now's your chance to make you case, show us where Scripture teaches that man has another spirit that lives on after death.

 

It's not I who is opposing the Scriptures, you've not addressed what I presented.

 

 

You cannot show that man has no spirit, because we all do. You have no proof of your claim. Even Solomon knew it:

 

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (NLT)

⁷ For then the dust will return to the earth, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

 

 

 

You have no knowledge of God without your spirit part!

 

Romans 8:16 (NLT)

¹⁶ For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children.

 

[asper]

Hi butch,

 

Try to pay attention.

 

First I presented verses that showed that man has a spirit.

Verses have been shown before that man can be in heaven when his body is dead.

 

Let’s look at something else.

 

Ge 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath <05397> of life; and man became a living soul.

 

05397. המשׁנ n@shamah nesh-aw-maw’; from 05395; a puff, i.e. wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect. or (concretely) an animal: — 

 

 

Ge 6:17  And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath <07307> of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

 

07307. חור ruwach roo’ akh; from 07306; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): — 

 

His breath was troubled?

Ge 41:8  And it came to pass in the morning that his spirit <07307> was troubled; and he sent and called for all the magicians of Egypt, and all the wise men thereof: and Pharaoh told them his dream; but there was none that could interpret them unto Pharaoh.

 

His breath there is no guile?

Ps 32:2  Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit <07307> there is no guile.

 

 

Without an in depth study you will not pick up the differences since they both have multiple meanings.

So basically you have to take it in context because you can use different words and also get the same meaning.

 

Unless of course you want to consider God’s Spirit His breath.

 

Ge 1:2  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit <07307> of God moved upon the face of the waters.

 

Ge 6:3  And the LORD said, My spirit <07307> shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

 

Ge 7:15  And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath <07307> of life.

 

Ge 7:22  All in whose nostrils was the breath <07307> of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

 

2Ch 24:20  And the Spirit <07307> of God came upon Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest, which stood above the people, and said unto them, Thus saith God, Why transgress ye the commandments of the LORD, that ye cannot prosper? because ye have forsaken the LORD, he hath also forsaken you.

 

Ps 51:11  Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit <07307> from me.

 

So the point is that what is breath is not spirit. And what is spirit is not breath. It has to be taken in context

 

 

God bless,

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Butch5]

Hi butch,

 

Try to pay attention.

 

First I presented verses that showed that man has a spirit.

Verses have been shown before that man can be in heaven when his body is dead.

 

Let’s look at something else.

 

Ge 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath <05397> of life; and man became a living soul.

 

05397. המשׁנ n@shamah nesh-aw-maw’; from 05395; a puff, i.e. wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect. or (concretely) an animal: — 

 

 

Ge 6:17  And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath <07307> of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

 

07307. חור ruwach roo’ akh; from 07306; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): — 

 

His breath was troubled?

Ge 41:8  And it came to pass in the morning that his spirit <07307> was troubled; and he sent and called for all the magicians of Egypt, and all the wise men thereof: and Pharaoh told them his dream; but there was none that could interpret them unto Pharaoh.

 

His breath there is no guile?

Ps 32:2  Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit <07307> there is no guile.

 

 

Without an in depth study you will not pick up the differences since they both have multiple meanings.

So basically you have to take it in context because you can use different words and also get the same meaning.

 

Unless of course you want to consider God’s Spirit His breath.

 

Ge 1:2  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit <07307> of God moved upon the face of the waters.

 

Ge 6:3  And the LORD said, My spirit <07307> shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

 

Ge 7:15  And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath <07307> of life.

 

Ge 7:22  All in whose nostrils was the breath <07307> of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

 

2Ch 24:20  And the Spirit <07307> of God came upon Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest, which stood above the people, and said unto them, Thus saith God, Why transgress ye the commandments of the LORD, that ye cannot prosper? because ye have forsaken the LORD, he hath also forsaken you.

 

Ps 51:11  Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit <07307> from me.

 

So the point is that what is breath is not spirit. And what is spirit is not breath. It has to be taken in context

 

 

God bless,

Tony

Maybe you should do that word study and you'd see that it's the same word. Again, all you've done is post passage that you believe support your position yet not one of tem teaches that man has a spirit that lives on after he dies. I never denied that man Has a spirit in him, It's God's spirit/breath that is in a man. You're assuming you premise without proving it. It doesn't work that way.

 

Also, feel to show me Scripture that teaches that people go to Heaven when they die. Please passages that teach it, not passages from which you infer it.

[Floatingaxe]

John 3:36 (NLT) says,

³⁶ And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.

 

 

Everlasting life is a present-tense possession. It’s not something that begins when we get to heaven. There are a number of scriptures that speak of everlasting life as something we possess in this life:

 

John 4:14 (NLT)

¹⁴ But those who drink the water I give will never be thirsty again. It becomes a fresh, bubbling spring within them, giving them eternal life.”

 

John 5:24 (NLT)

²⁴ “I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

 

John 6:27 (NKJV)

²⁷ Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.

 

 

John 6:47 (AMP)

⁴⁷ I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, he who believes in Me [who adheres to, trusts in, relies on, and has faith in Me] has (now possesses) eternal life.

 

 

In other words---knowing God is eternal life---in the here and now! If you dispute that truth, then do you really know God? Do you struggle merely with a head knowledge? Book learning? Religious adherence? Stop now and give your heart to Jesus Christ and follow closely after Him. In this way you will please God and become His own child, and will inherit eternal life---now.

[Butch5]

 

 

 

 

Shalom Burch.

 

I am not sure I understand exactly what you are saying.  This is what I have gotten so far from what I have read from your posts:

• You do not believe we have a spirit.
• We are not destined to be in His kingdom, but to rule here on the New Earth.
• We basically "soul sleep" until we are physically resurrected.

Am I correct or am I misunderstanding you?

Hi OneLight,

 

The spirit that we have is God's spirit/breath that is breathed into every living creature. I am saying that when God takes His spirit/breath back there is nothing in a man to live on.

 

We are destined for His kingdom, that Kingdom will be on earth.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by soul sleep. The Scriptures define a soul as a body and the breath/spirit of God. It would seem that when those two are separated there is no more soul to sleep.

When God retrieves His Spirit man is dead and remains dead until God breathes His breath/spirit back into that man at the resurrection.

 

 

Yes, we will be given bodies at the resurrection that will be useful for our time on earth when we rule and reign with Jesus Christ. Those who have died in Christ don't need them at the moment, for they are with Christ in their spiritual bodies.

 

You are futilely trying to oppose the simple scripture that tells us---promises us---that in Christ we never die! So, how can you say we remain dead until the resurrection? No---my physical body returns to dust, but I will live forever in Christ.

 

Dude, I'm the one showing the creation of man and that he doesn't have this spirit you claim. I've asked repeatedly for you guys to show me where Scripture teaches that man has this spirit and as of now neither of you has made an attempt to prove this spirit from Scripture, you've simply presumed it exists. Now's your chance to make you case, show us where Scripture teaches that man has another spirit that lives on after death.

 

It's not I who is opposing the Scriptures, you've not addressed what I presented.

 

 

You cannot show that man has no spirit, because we all do. You have no proof of your claim. Even Solomon knew it:

 

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (NLT)

⁷ For then the dust will return to the earth, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

 

 

 

You have no knowledge of God without your spirit part!

 

Romans 8:16 (NLT)

¹⁶ For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children.

 

 

Are you following the discussion? I've already pointed out that the spirit returns to God that because it's His spirit. The discussion ins not whether there is a spirit in man it's does man have a spirit other than God's that lives on after death and the answer is no. None of you have even attempted to make you case. Proof texting doesn't prove your point. I could get an American History book ad take out sentences and claim the British won the war that doesn't  mean they did.

 

When you want to make your case please do. No proof texting just show where the scriptures teach this other spirit in a man that lives on after death.

[Butch5]

 

John 3:36 (NLT) says,

³⁶ And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.

 

 

Everlasting life is a present-tense possession. It’s not something that begins when we get to heaven. There are a number of scriptures that speak of everlasting life as something we possess in this life:

 

John 4:14 (NLT)

¹⁴ But those who drink the water I give will never be thirsty again. It becomes a fresh, bubbling spring within them, giving them eternal life.”

 

John 5:24 (NLT)

²⁴ “I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

 

John 6:27 (NKJV)

²⁷ Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.

 

 

John 6:47 (AMP)

⁴⁷ I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, he who believes in Me [who adheres to, trusts in, relies on, and has faith in Me] has (now possesses) eternal life.

 

 

In other words---knowing God is eternal life---in the here and now! If you dispute that truth, then do you really know God? Do you struggle merely with a head knowledge? Book learning? Religious adherence? Stop now and give your heart to Jesus Christ and follow closely after Him. In this way you will please God and become His own child, and will inherit eternal life---now.

 

So, you're not goon die ?

[Floatingaxe]

 

 

 

 

 

Shalom Burch.

 

I am not sure I understand exactly what you are saying.  This is what I have gotten so far from what I have read from your posts:

• You do not believe we have a spirit.
• We are not destined to be in His kingdom, but to rule here on the New Earth.
• We basically "soul sleep" until we are physically resurrected.

Am I correct or am I misunderstanding you?

Hi OneLight,

 

The spirit that we have is God's spirit/breath that is breathed into every living creature. I am saying that when God takes His spirit/breath back there is nothing in a man to live on.

 

We are destined for His kingdom, that Kingdom will be on earth.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by soul sleep. The Scriptures define a soul as a body and the breath/spirit of God. It would seem that when those two are separated there is no more soul to sleep.

When God retrieves His Spirit man is dead and remains dead until God breathes His breath/spirit back into that man at the resurrection.

 

 

Yes, we will be given bodies at the resurrection that will be useful for our time on earth when we rule and reign with Jesus Christ. Those who have died in Christ don't need them at the moment, for they are with Christ in their spiritual bodies.

 

You are futilely trying to oppose the simple scripture that tells us---promises us---that in Christ we never die! So, how can you say we remain dead until the resurrection? No---my physical body returns to dust, but I will live forever in Christ.

 

Dude, I'm the one showing the creation of man and that he doesn't have this spirit you claim. I've asked repeatedly for you guys to show me where Scripture teaches that man has this spirit and as of now neither of you has made an attempt to prove this spirit from Scripture, you've simply presumed it exists. Now's your chance to make you case, show us where Scripture teaches that man has another spirit that lives on after death.

 

It's not I who is opposing the Scriptures, you've not addressed what I presented.

 

 

You cannot show that man has no spirit, because we all do. You have no proof of your claim. Even Solomon knew it:

 

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (NLT)

⁷ For then the dust will return to the earth, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

 

 

 

You have no knowledge of God without your spirit part!

 

Romans 8:16 (NLT)

¹⁶ For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children.

 

 

Are you following the discussion? I've already pointed out that the spirit returns to God that because it's His spirit. The discussion ins not whether there is a spirit in man it's does man have a spirit other than God's that lives on after death and the answer is no. None of you have even attempted to make you case. Proof texting doesn't prove your point. I could get an American History book ad take out sentences and claim the British won the war that doesn't  mean they did.

 

When you want to make your case please do. No proof texting just show where the scriptures teach this other spirit in a man that lives on after death.

 

 

The spirit God has given me is  the real ME! So, when I die, I will go to be with Jesus...both my soul and my spirit!

 

You have nothing to prove your theory. No scripture, either! Yet you have been given much scripture that proves we are spiritual beings and are eternal in nature, and that when we believers die we see God.

[Floatingaxe]

 

 

John 3:36 (NLT) says,

³⁶ And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.

 

 

Everlasting life is a present-tense possession. It’s not something that begins when we get to heaven. There are a number of scriptures that speak of everlasting life as something we possess in this life:

 

John 4:14 (NLT)

¹⁴ But those who drink the water I give will never be thirsty again. It becomes a fresh, bubbling spring within them, giving them eternal life.”

 

John 5:24 (NLT)

²⁴ “I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

 

John 6:27 (NKJV)

²⁷ Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.

 

 

John 6:47 (AMP)

⁴⁷ I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, he who believes in Me [who adheres to, trusts in, relies on, and has faith in Me] has (now possesses) eternal life.

 

 

In other words---knowing God is eternal life---in the here and now! If you dispute that truth, then do you really know God? Do you struggle merely with a head knowledge? Book learning? Religious adherence? Stop now and give your heart to Jesus Christ and follow closely after Him. In this way you will please God and become His own child, and will inherit eternal life---now.

 

So, you're not goon die ?

 

 Nope. My body will, but the true me, which is my soul and my spirit---will go on to eternity and to glory where Jesus is. I will receive a new glorified body at the resurrection because I will need it to rule and reign with Him on earth for the Millennial Reign of Christ.