Butch5 Posted September 24, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Shalom Burch. I am not sure I understand exactly what you are saying. This is what I have gotten so far from what I have read from your posts: You do not believe we have a spirit. We are not destined to be in His kingdom, but to rule here on the New Earth. We basically "soul sleep" until we are physically resurrected. Am I correct or am I misunderstanding you? Hi OneLight, The spirit that we have is God's spirit/breath that is breathed into every living creature. I am saying that when God takes His spirit/breath back there is nothing in a man to live on. We are destined for His kingdom, that Kingdom will be on earth. I'm not sure what you mean by soul sleep. The Scriptures define a soul as a body and the breath/spirit of God. It would seem that when those two are separated there is no more soul to sleep. When God retrieves His Spirit man is dead and remains dead until God breathes His breath/spirit back into that man at the resurrection. Yes, we will be given bodies at the resurrection that will be useful for our time on earth when we rule and reign with Jesus Christ. Those who have died in Christ don't need them at the moment, for they are with Christ in their spiritual bodies. You are futilely trying to oppose the simple scripture that tells us---promises us---that in Christ we never die! So, how can you say we remain dead until the resurrection? No---my physical body returns to dust, but I will live forever in Christ. Dude, I'm the one showing the creation of man and that he doesn't have this spirit you claim. I've asked repeatedly for you guys to show me where Scripture teaches that man has this spirit and as of now neither of you has made an attempt to prove this spirit from Scripture, you've simply presumed it exists. Now's your chance to make you case, show us where Scripture teaches that man has another spirit that lives on after death. It's not I who is opposing the Scriptures, you've not addressed what I presented. You cannot show that man has no spirit, because we all do. You have no proof of your claim. Even Solomon knew it: Ecclesiastes 12:7 (NLT) 7 For then the dust will return to the earth, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. You have no knowledge of God without your spirit part! Romans 8:16 (NLT) 16 For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children. Are you following the discussion? I've already pointed out that the spirit returns to God that because it's His spirit. The discussion ins not whether there is a spirit in man it's does man have a spirit other than God's that lives on after death and the answer is no. None of you have even attempted to make you case. Proof texting doesn't prove your point. I could get an American History book ad take out sentences and claim the British won the war that doesn't mean they did. When you want to make your case please do. No proof texting just show where the scriptures teach this other spirit in a man that lives on after death. The spirit God has given me is the real ME! So, when I die, I will go to be with Jesus...both my soul and my spirit! You have nothing to prove your theory. No scripture, either! Yet you have been given much scripture that proves we are spiritual beings and are eternal in nature, and that when we believers die we see God. Are you in the real world.? I've made my case, you guys have simply proof texted. The fact that none of you have addressed my evidence and that none of you have attempted to build a case from Scripture but rather have simply proof texted suggest strongly that you can't make your case from Scripture. You'll have no problem making a case from the writings of Plato though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asper Posted September 24, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 226 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/26/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/15/1954 Share Posted September 24, 2013 (edited) Hi butch, Really? Php 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.25 And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith; Depart and be with Christ or to remain in the flesh. Where is Christ? 1Pe 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.Re 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven If you were to bring someone with you wouldn’t that mean that they were with you? 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. *** removed personal attack/insult *** God bless,Tony Edited September 24, 2013 by OneLight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted September 24, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Are you following the discussion? I've already pointed out that the spirit returns to God that because it's His spirit. The discussion ins not whether there is a spirit in man it's does man have a spirit other than God's that lives on after death and the answer is no. None of you have even attempted to make you case. Proof texting doesn't prove your point. I could get an American History book ad take out sentences and claim the British won the war that doesn't mean they did. When you want to make your case please do. No proof texting just show where the scriptures teach this other spirit in a man that lives on after death. The spirit God has given me is the real ME! So, when I die, I will go to be with Jesus...both my soul and my spirit! You have nothing to prove your theory. No scripture, either! Yet you have been given much scripture that proves we are spiritual beings and are eternal in nature, and that when we believers die we see God. Are you in the real world.? I've made my case, you guys have simply proof texted. The fact that none of you have addressed my evidence and that none of you have attempted to build a case from Scripture but rather have simply proof texted suggest strongly that you can't make your case from Scripture. You'll have no problem making a case from the writings of Plato though. Yes, are you? You reject what God teaches in His word about how we are created. You have no evidence for your opinion. Plato has nothing to do with what God teaches us. You may like to argue Greek Philosophy, giving it power for some reason, but you are treading on dangerous ground, for it is like Satan---against God. There are millions of believers in Heaven right this very moment, awaiting the Day that Jesus is told by the Father, "Go get your Bride, Son!" At that moment they will all saddle up and ride with Him! Zechariah 14:5b (AMP) and the Lord my [Zechariah’s] God shall come, and all the holy ones [saints and angels] with Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch5 Posted September 24, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted September 24, 2013 How does a person have eternal life of they die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 How does a person have eternal life of they die? Very Good Question Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24 For With God Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: John 11:25 All Things Are Possible I know that my redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand on the earth. And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God; I myself will see him with my own eyes—I, and not another. How my heart yearns within me! Job 19:25-27 (NIV) You See? ~ Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 Love, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted September 24, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 24, 2013 Shalom Burch. I am not sure I understand exactly what you are saying. This is what I have gotten so far from what I have read from your posts:You do not believe we have a spirit.We are not destined to be in His kingdom, but to rule here on the New Earth.We basically "soul sleep" until we are physically resurrected.Am I correct or am I misunderstanding you?Hi OneLight, The spirit that we have is God's spirit/breath that is breathed into every living creature. I am saying that when God takes His spirit/breath back there is nothing in a man to live on. We are destined for His kingdom, that Kingdom will be on earth. I'm not sure what you mean by soul sleep. The Scriptures define a soul as a body and the breath/spirit of God. It would seem that when those two are separated there is no more soul to sleep.When God retrieves His Spirit man is dead and remains dead until God breathes His breath/spirit back into that man at the resurrection.Before I reply to what you posted, may I inquire what is it that you believe and where were you taught this? Is there a specific church that is teaching this, or is this something you learned on your own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch5 Posted September 24, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted September 24, 2013 It's in the Scriptures. I've seen it taught in church also. It's just a matter of going back to what was originally taught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted September 24, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted September 24, 2013 How does a person have eternal life of they die? You must understand how we are created---with three parts. The physical 'dust' part returns to dust when the LIVING spirit leaves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted September 25, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 25, 2013 It's in the Scriptures. I've seen it taught in church also. It's just a matter of going back to what was originally taught.That is pretty vague. I was hoping for much more substance from someone who claims we don't have a spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch5 Posted September 25, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted September 25, 2013 It's in the Scriptures. I've seen it taught in church also. It's just a matter of going back to what was originally taught. That is pretty vague. I was hoping for much more substance from someone who claims we don't have a spirit. What are you looking for that I haven't already presented? No one has made a case for this "other" spirit in a man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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