Are people in Heaven?

[Floatingaxe]

 

Genesis 2:7 (AMP)

 

7 Then the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath or spirit of life, and man became a living being.

Are you trying to prove my point?

 

 

Just stating the facts. We are spirits who possess souls and live in bodies.

[asper]

Hi butch,

 

You are still missing the point.

 

Whether it is spirit or soul or spirit and soul or whatever it is doesn’t matter to the original argument which is that we will be in heaven even though our body lies here on earth dead.

 

Php 1:21  For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

22  But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

23  For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

24  Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

25  And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;

 

We are tri beings just like our Maker.

 

Ge 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

 

1Th 5:23  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Again, more verses below which prove that we will be in heaven while our bodies lie here on earth dead if we die before the Lord’s return.

 

2Co 5:6  Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7  (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

1Th 4:14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

 

 

And yes there is no guess when we receive a new spirit which is distinguished between that and Spirit of God. (New replaces the old one that we had)

 

Eze 36:26  A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27       And       I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

 

There are two different spirits in the verse below unless of course God is talking to Himself.

 

Ro 8:16  The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 

Any questions?

 

You might want to respond to the Scriptures that are presented and I am sure that you will not deny what is plainly said.

 

God bless,

Tony

[OneLight]

 

 

Actually, the words translated breath and spirit are the same word. There are two Greek words that translated as breath/spirit.

 

Genesis 2:7 was not written in Greek, but Hebrew.  the word used for breath-of is nshmth.

 

H5397  nshamah  nesh-aw-maw'

from H5395;

a puff, i.e. wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect. or (concretely) an animal.

 

The Greek word for spirit is pneuma

 

G4151  pneuma  pnyoo'-mah

from G4154;

a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit. Compare G5590.

KJV: ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind.

 

They are not the same.

 

Care to show your evidence that it is?

 

Hi Onelight,

 

I suggested a word study not just the definition two words. There is a lot more involved than just looking at the definition of two words. However, I will address what you've posted here.  Neshama does mean breath and is the word used ion Gen 2:7 for breath in the breath of life. However, "Ruach" is also a word that means breath or wind. The phrase "Breath of Life" that is in Gen 2:7 also appears elsewhere in Genesis.

 

KJV Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

KJV Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

KJV Genesis 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

KJV Genesis 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

 

In Genesis 2:7 and 7:22, the phrase "Breath of life" uses the word "neshama". In the verses 6:17 and 7:15 the phrase "breath of life" uses the "ruwach. The words are interchangeable and ruwach is also translated "pnuma" in the Septuagint. There are other places where the words are interchangeable a study of these words alone with the word "nepehsh" translated "soul" among others will reveal quite a bit about what a man is and how he is created.

 

In looking at your post I have to ask, if you don't believe that Neshamah is God's spirit are you arguing that man has no spirit at all? It seems that if neshamah is not God's spirit there is one of two options, either man has no spirit or man has been given this spirit after the creation. If man has been given a spirit after creation please show where this is taught in Scriptures, this is what I've been trying to get these guys to do.

 

Actually, you suggested that the words were from the Greek. I was correcting your statement.

 

Actually, the words translated breath and spirit are the same word. There are two Greek words that translated as breath/spirit.

Here is the word for word translation of Genesis 2:7:

 

and ∙he-is-forming Yahweh Elohim >> the ∙human soil from the ∙ground and ∙he-is-blowing in ∙nostrils-of ∙him breath-of lives and ∙he-is-becoming the ∙human to ∙soul living.

The fact that they can be interchangable is not in question. What needs to be considered is why different words were used, meaning that we should not be looking for simularities, but what makes them different.

 

H7307 ruwach roo'-akh

from H7306;

wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions).

KJV: air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit((-ual)), tempest, X vain, ((whirl-))wind(-y).

H5397 nshamah nesh-aw-maw'

from H5395;

a puff, i.e. wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect. or (concretely) an animal.

KJV: blast, (that) breath(-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.

 

The differences is where you will find the answer.  God created us as a living being, that has a spirit and a soul.  We do not have His spirit in us.

 

Yes, you will find that many here do much more than what they post when it comes to understanding scripture. Please, don't debate the person, but what the person posted.

[Butch5]

 

 

 

Actually, the words translated breath and spirit are the same word. There are two Greek words that translated as breath/spirit.

 

Genesis 2:7 was not written in Greek, but Hebrew.  the word used for breath-of is nshmth.

 

H5397  nshamah  nesh-aw-maw'

from H5395;

a puff, i.e. wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect. or (concretely) an animal.

 

The Greek word for spirit is pneuma

 

G4151  pneuma  pnyoo'-mah

from G4154;

a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit. Compare G5590.

KJV: ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind.

 

They are not the same.

 

Care to show your evidence that it is?

 

Hi Onelight,

 

I suggested a word study not just the definition two words. There is a lot more involved than just looking at the definition of two words. However, I will address what you've posted here.  Neshama does mean breath and is the word used ion Gen 2:7 for breath in the breath of life. However, "Ruach" is also a word that means breath or wind. The phrase "Breath of Life" that is in Gen 2:7 also appears elsewhere in Genesis.

 

KJV Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

KJV Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

KJV Genesis 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

KJV Genesis 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

 

In Genesis 2:7 and 7:22, the phrase "Breath of life" uses the word "neshama". In the verses 6:17 and 7:15 the phrase "breath of life" uses the "ruwach. The words are interchangeable and ruwach is also translated "pnuma" in the Septuagint. There are other places where the words are interchangeable a study of these words alone with the word "nepehsh" translated "soul" among others will reveal quite a bit about what a man is and how he is created.

 

In looking at your post I have to ask, if you don't believe that Neshamah is God's spirit are you arguing that man has no spirit at all? It seems that if neshamah is not God's spirit there is one of two options, either man has no spirit or man has been given this spirit after the creation. If man has been given a spirit after creation please show where this is taught in Scriptures, this is what I've been trying to get these guys to do.

 

Actually, you suggested that the words were from the Greek. I was correcting your statement.

 

Actually, the words translated breath and spirit are the same word. There are two Greek words that translated as breath/spirit.

Here is the word for word translation of Genesis 2:7:

 

and ∙he-is-forming Yahweh Elohim >> the ∙human soil from the ∙ground and ∙he-is-blowing in ∙nostrils-of ∙him breath-of lives and ∙he-is-becoming the ∙human to ∙soul living.

The fact that they can be interchangable is not in question. What needs to be considered is why different words were used, meaning that we should not be looking for simularities, but what makes them different.

 

H7307 ruwach roo'-akh

from H7306;

wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions).

KJV: air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit((-ual)), tempest, X vain, ((whirl-))wind(-y).

H5397 nshamah nesh-aw-maw'

from H5395;

a puff, i.e. wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect. or (concretely) an animal.

KJV: blast, (that) breath(-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.

 

The differences is where you will find the answer.  God created us as a living being, that has a spirit and a soul.  We do not have His spirit in us.

 

Yes, you will find that many here do much more than what they post when it comes to understanding scripture. Please, don't debate the person, but what the person posted.

 

Dude, God breathed the neshamah into Adam, it came out of God.

 

However that's not the real issue. The issue is this "other" spirit that is supposed to be in a man, yet no one can show where this spirit comes from.

[Butch5]

Hi butch,

 

You are still missing the point.

 

Whether it is spirit or soul or spirit and soul or whatever it is doesn’t matter to the original argument which is that we will be in heaven even though our body lies here on earth dead.

 

Php 1:21  For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

22  But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

23  For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

24  Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

25  And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;

 

We are tri beings just like our Maker.

 

Ge 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

 

1Th 5:23  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Again, more verses below which prove that we will be in heaven while our bodies lie here on earth dead if we die before the Lord’s return.

 

2Co 5:6  Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7  (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

1Th 4:14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

 

 

And yes there is no guess when we receive a new spirit which is distinguished between that and Spirit of God. (New replaces the old one that we had)

 

Eze 36:26  A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27       And       I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

 

There are two different spirits in the verse below unless of course God is talking to Himself.

 

Ro 8:16  The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 

Any questions?

 

You might want to respond to the Scriptures that are presented and I am sure that you will not deny what is plainly said.

 

God bless,

Tony

What do you think these prove? You've posted passages without their context. I didn't see a single passage that said anything about people going to heaven when they die.

 

I have one question, you posted these passages to prove that people go to Heaven when they die. How come not one of the passages mentions Heaven?

[Butch5]

 

 

Genesis 2:7 (AMP)

 

7 Then the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath or spirit of life, and man became a living being.

Are you trying to prove my point?

 

 

Just stating the facts. We are spirits who possess souls and live in bodies.

 

Well, since you haven't made a case from Scripture I'll have to assume that's an opinion. I believe Plato believed that also.

[OneLight]

Dude, God breathed the neshamah into Adam, it came out of God.

 

However that's not the real issue. The issue is this "other" spirit that is supposed to be in a man, yet no one can show where this spirit comes from.

God gave man life. He did not give man His spirit. If God gave man His spirit, Satan would never of been able to deceive him and the would never of gone against His wishes.

Honestly, you are trying to add into scripture what is not there. Our spirit was created in us as we were given life.

[asper]

 

Hi butch,

 

You are still missing the point.

 

Whether it is spirit or soul or spirit and soul or whatever it is doesn’t matter to the original argument which is that we will be in heaven even though our body lies here on earth dead.

 

Php 1:21  For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

22  But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

23  For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

24  Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

25  And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;

 

We are tri beings just like our Maker.

 

Ge 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

 

1Th 5:23  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Again, more verses below which prove that we will be in heaven while our bodies lie here on earth dead if we die before the Lord’s return.

 

2Co 5:6  Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7  (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

1Th 4:14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

 

 

And yes there is no guess when we receive a new spirit which is distinguished between that and Spirit of God. (New replaces the old one that we had)

 

Eze 36:26  A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27       And       I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

 

There are two different spirits in the verse below unless of course God is talking to Himself.

 

Ro 8:16  The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 

Any questions?

 

You might want to respond to the Scriptures that are presented and I am sure that you will not deny what is plainly said.

 

God bless,

Tony

What do you think these prove? You've posted passages without their context. I didn't see a single passage that said anything about people going to heaven when they die.

 

I have one question, you posted these passages to prove that people go to Heaven when they die. How come not one of the passages mentions Heaven?

 

 

 

Hi butch,

 

Really?

 

And just where do you suppose Jesus and God are?

 

Mr 16:19  So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

 

Ac 2:33  Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

 

Ac 7:55  But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

 

 

Let me know if you need more.

 

God bless,

Tony

[Butch5]

 

 

Hi butch,

 

You are still missing the point.

 

Whether it is spirit or soul or spirit and soul or whatever it is doesn’t matter to the original argument which is that we will be in heaven even though our body lies here on earth dead.

 

Php 1:21  For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

22  But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

23  For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

24  Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

25  And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;

 

We are tri beings just like our Maker.

 

Ge 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

 

1Th 5:23  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Again, more verses below which prove that we will be in heaven while our bodies lie here on earth dead if we die before the Lord’s return.

 

2Co 5:6  Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7  (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

1Th 4:14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

 

 

And yes there is no guess when we receive a new spirit which is distinguished between that and Spirit of God. (New replaces the old one that we had)

 

Eze 36:26  A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27       And       I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

 

There are two different spirits in the verse below unless of course God is talking to Himself.

 

Ro 8:16  The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 

Any questions?

 

You might want to respond to the Scriptures that are presented and I am sure that you will not deny what is plainly said.

 

God bless,

Tony

What do you think these prove? You've posted passages without their context. I didn't see a single passage that said anything about people going to heaven when they die.

 

I have one question, you posted these passages to prove that people go to Heaven when they die. How come not one of the passages mentions Heaven?

 

 

 

Hi butch,

 

Really?

 

And just where do you suppose Jesus and God are?

 

Mr 16:19  So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

 

Ac 2:33  Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

 

Ac 7:55  But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

 

 

Let me know if you need more.

 

God bless,

Tony

 

As I said, none of the passages you presented even mentioned Heaven, therefore I have to conclude that you are "inferring" that idea and not getting it from the Scriptures.

 

Regarding the passages here,

 

⁷ Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? ⁸ If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. (Psa 139:1 KJG)

 

It would seem that there is nowhere one can go to get away from God's presents.

 

However, as I said, you've inferred that idea, It's not that the Scriptures teach it. You posted passages about Jesus being at the right hand of God in Heaven. He also said that people couldn't go there.

 

³² The Pharisees heard that the people murmured such things concerning him; and the Pharisees and the chief priests sent officers to take him.

³³ Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me.

³⁴ Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come.

³⁵ Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?

³⁶ What manner of saying is this that he said, Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come? (Joh 7:32-36 KJV)

 

²⁰ These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.

²¹ Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

²² Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.

(Joh 8:20-22 KJV)

 

³¹ Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.

³² If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

³³ Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you. (Joh 13:31-33 KJV)

 

 

He told the Jews and His disciples that He was going to the one who sent Him and they could not go. In order for them to be with Him He needed to come back as He told them in John 14.

 

KJV John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

² In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

³ And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. (Joh 14:1-3 KJV)

 

 

It seems pretty clear that no one is going there.

 

However, if you'd put your passages in context and consider them you'd see that they are not saying what you believe they are.

 

[Butch5]

 

Dude, God breathed the neshamah into Adam, it came out of God.

 

However that's not the real issue. The issue is this "other" spirit that is supposed to be in a man, yet no one can show where this spirit comes from.

God gave man life. He did not give man His spirit. If God gave man His spirit, Satan would never of been able to deceive him and the would never of gone against His wishes.

Honestly, you are trying to add into scripture what is not there. Our spirit was created in us as we were given life.

 

Where does Scripture teach any of this?