Enoc Posted May 18, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 153 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/14/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2013 Though I have heard all the different interpretations I find it interesting that all the early church writers either taught by the Apostles or the men they themselves taught regard this as referring to water baptism. Were they taught an error regarding this very important passage? Did the Apostles make a mistake and give them all this false impression? Hmm? I don't think so... As humanly reasonable as any other view can appear to be I will side with them on this one....just my $.02 Brother Paul I may have over looked that scripture, can you provide the scripture where water baptism and being born of water are the same. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted May 18, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2013 Though I have heard all the different interpretations I find it interesting that all the early church writers either taught by the Apostles or the men they themselves taught regard this as referring to water baptism. Were they taught an error regarding this very important passage? Did the Apostles make a mistake and give them all this false impression? Hmm? I don't think so... As humanly reasonable as any other view can appear to be I will side with them on this one....just my $.02 Brother Paul I may have over looked that scripture, can you provide the scripture where water baptism and being born of water are the same. Thanks! I'm curious as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted May 19, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,256 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 16,671 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 19, 2013 Man, hold up there. The we in Genesis 1 was referring to the Trinity. Angels have not flesh and bones but are spirits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted May 19, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 19, 2013 My view would be that only humans can be born again; therefore having to be first born through water. There are no other implications that any other created being can be born again. Place yourself back in biblical times when Christ spoke those words. The only way to be born was by natural childbirth. First , the water breaks, then birth. I cannot place this as being baptized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 19, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,387 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,563 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 19, 2013 "Unless one is born of water..." If Jesus was referring to natural childbirth, that would mean there are multiple ways of giving birth to a child. Or at least one other way where the developing child isn't surrounded by amniotic fluid. It also detracts from the importance of water baptism. Jesus' ministry started with His baptism. The Spirit of God didn't light upon Him until after He came out of the water. Think about it. One possible reason for this born of woman as specific is cloning... I believe the mortal wound that anti-christ shall receive and be healed as miracle will merely be a movement from one cloned body to another using science and lie to deceive even the elect if God were to permit... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 "Unless one is born of water..." If Jesus was referring to natural childbirth, that would mean there are multiple ways of giving birth to a child. Or at least one other way where the developing child isn't surrounded by amniotic fluid. It also detracts from the importance of water baptism. Jesus' ministry started with His baptism. The Spirit of God didn't light upon Him until after He came out of the water. Think about it. One possible reason for this born of woman as specific is cloning... I believe the mortal wound that anti-christ shall receive and be healed as miracle will merely be a movement from one cloned body to another using science and lie to deceive even the elect if God were to permit... Love, Steven I don't believe they were cloning people 2,000 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted May 20, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.95 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 20, 2013 Strict adherence other than to the water breaking at birth leaves anyone who does not believe in immersion baptism out or heaven and without the Holy Spirit as I understand your response. That is not correct. There are many who do not adhere to that teaching or are unavailable to be baptized after they accept Jesus as Saviour. That leaves only Baptists (in the general term) as going to heaven. Many Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Orthodox, Presbyterians and Jews etc out of heaven. I cannot in any stretch of my imagination believe you to be correct. In any land if one accepts Jesus and they are far from water to be immersed how are they baptized before the Holy Spirit indwells them on accepting Jesus as Saviour? This is not a premise I can accept. I do not believe immersion is necessary for the Salvation of the Soul or entry into heaven or the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted May 20, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2013 Yes, it is John 3:3-8...this is how they interpreted it...that one needed to be water and Spirit baptized to enter the kingdom of Heaven. Brother Paul For context... John 3:1-15 You Must Be Born Again 1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” 9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted May 20, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2013 I do not believe immersion is necessary for the Salvation of the Soul or entry into heaven or the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. I agree Little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Strict adherence other than to the water breaking at birth leaves anyone who does not believe in immersion baptism out or heaven and without the Holy Spirit as I understand your response. That is not correct. There are many who do not adhere to that teaching or are unavailable to be baptized after they accept Jesus as Saviour. That leaves only Baptists (in the general term) as going to heaven. Many Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Orthodox, Presbyterians and Jews etc out of heaven. I cannot in any stretch of my imagination believe you to be correct. In any land if one accepts Jesus and they are far from water to be immersed how are they baptized before the Holy Spirit indwells them on accepting Jesus as Saviour? This is not a premise I can accept. I do not believe immersion is necessary for the Salvation of the Soul or entry into heaven or the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Who exactly are you addressing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts