Guest Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 .... This couple is married with no children as yet, had been members of the same church for years and tithed because they felt led to and wanted to support the church's missions and other programs. Then came a change in church leadership, followed by the members as a whole were told they were not giving enough because there were shortfalls in church finances, and at first subtle, then more blatant thug tactics were used to pressure them into to giving more. Soon there were several sermon series on giving, tithing, and all the rest. Then they started getting calls from the elders that stopped just shy of demanding more money. Other tactics including peer pressure were used also. They got to the point where they were not sure what to do about it all because there was clearly something wrong with the whole situation. They eventually figured it out, but what would you do in this situation? I would leave that church. ~ Push Back But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Matthew 6:33 For Sure Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:5 See Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. Jeremiah 17:7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted June 6, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted June 6, 2013 My church is a definitely Spirit-led church and we do get reminders and encouragement regarding giving from time to time because we are in a building program, and as we are growing fast, new members need to be apprised of the goings-on, etc...but this strong-arming is not necessary. We are told that whenever there is admonishment regarding any matter from the pulpit, that if the shoe doesn't fit, feel free to set it aside and pray for those to whom it applies. There is no need to internalize every mention of tithing or any matter if one is following the Lord first and foremost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Joyful Posted June 6, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,901 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 365 Days Won: 29 Joined: 08/16/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted June 6, 2013 The problem always arise... When you began to forget...God knows what we can and what we can't do. He also know those who may not understand the measure of giving. As long as your friends are led by the Spirit of God...then why book it up and leave? I do not agree with the thug tactis...but feel if the ball was in their court...why didn't they address it to that person when approached concerning that matter? In the world no one can make one feel guilty about money and run them off...why allow people in the church to do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted June 6, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,189 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,467 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted June 6, 2013 I would know The Spirit had left as influence in this matter and a false one had been put into place! Col 3:1-2 3 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth NKJV I would join with those who also could see this and pray for the leadership... to return to what counts! Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Love Posted June 6, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/06/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 6, 2013 I'd find a new church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 The problem always arise... When you began to forget...God knows what we can and what we can't do. He also know those who may not understand the measure of giving. As long as your friends are led by the Spirit of God...then why book it up and leave? I do not agree with the thug tactis...but feel if the ball was in their court...why didn't they address it to that person when approached concerning that matter? In the world no one can make one feel guilty about money and run them off...why allow people in the church to do it? My friends did point out the problems to the elders on several occaisions and the strong arm tactics got worse, not better. Its not about anyone being "run off." They did what they felt led to do after bringing the matter up to the church leadership who seemed to be way off base with their pressure tactics in the few times I visited the church. This is something that took place over a period of around six months, and was not a snap decision on anyone's part. Its not easy leaving a church that you've been part of for years, but that was apparently what was needed at that point in my friend's lives. They are now quite happy and growing in their new church. The old one is slowly drying up and blowing away and the leadership still seems commited to their course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nChrist Posted June 7, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 438 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,947 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 300 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/28/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1949 Share Posted June 7, 2013 I absolutely can't stand any attempt to 'strong-arm' people for money.....or anything else. I would simply leave this church and take as many with me as I could persuade. I would do the same thing. I won't tolerate this kind of treatment from any church I attend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted June 7, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 7, 2013 This sounds so familiar. Me and the wife attended a church service recently in another town while we were away from home. It is a church a family member attends. I was very, very uncomfortable because the whole service was about giving, not a problem one might think, but this was about giving to the church. It was not a pleasant experience and the "sermon' was almost a begging session, It turns out that the church is not tithing enough to support the pastor and he might have to look for work. I say a Spirit led church will stand on it's own, through times of plenty and times of need. I did not feel the Spirit in this sermon and was praying against what I felt in this sermon. It was over the top. I have had problems with this too.Where the Church was practically begging for money all the time.It sure was an uncomfortable experience for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted June 7, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted June 7, 2013 If people are not tithing, then it is the pastor's duty to speak to them. It is his flock and his responsibility. If they are so miserly that they cannot support a pastor, then they deserve some strong teaching and admonition. It is difficult for visitors to have to sit through it, as they may come away with a bad taste in their mouths, but it is not their spiritual home, and they need to put that into perspective. Try to remember when you were a kid, playing at a friend's house and standing by while your friends mom or dad disciplined your friend. Uncomfortable, but completely appropriate for that family to function as that family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted June 7, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 7, 2013 If people are not tithing, then it is the pastor's duty to speak to them. It is his flock and his responsibility. If they are so miserly that they cannot support a pastor, then they deserve some strong teaching and admonition. It is difficult for visitors to have to sit through it, as they may come away with a bad taste in their mouths, but it is not their spiritual home, and they need to put that into perspective. Try to remember when you were a kid, playing at a friend's house and standing by while your friends mom or dad disciplined your friend. Uncomfortable, but completely appropriate for that family to function as that family. Sorry, but I think I have to comment. The Pastor is not my daddy. I am not the pastor's child. Now, the Pastor can certainly teach concerning tithing or being a giver as a part of teaching the scripture, but he is not to discipline in that manner at all. There is a prescribed way in scripture to discipline if a believer is sinning. First you go to them privately. Then you bring a brother. Then the elders, and finally, if they have not repented, you are to bring it before the body. If they do not repent, then they are to be turned over to the adversary, treated as an unbeliever, not a part of the assembly. A while back, a church brought in a new Pastor. This new pastor was not happy with the parsonage and wanted a much nicer house. But the house he wanted cost much more. The congregation agreed but were not keeping up with the mortgage payments. That pastor gave a sermon on their responsibility, and said that for the next week, they should tithe 90% and live off the remaining 10%. The attendance in that church dropped dramatically. The pastor resigned. Since the congregation owned the building, they survived, got another pastor and are now doing much better. I personally would go to a person if I have an issue with them, and especially if the situation comes to be discussed outside of the church. So, I do go to talk if I believe something is wrong. Sometimes it works out, and sometimes it doesn't. I read in Revelations that scripture asks, 'why do you tolerate the teaching of 'jezebel', or the Nicolatians'. If really bad doctrine is being taught, we are not to 'tolerate' such things. There is the prescribed method of going to them first privately etc, but if we are not to tolerate really really bad teaching (not just mistakes or doctrinal differences which are not serious), that means we might have to leave the church. But, in my view, if things are that bad, to stay allows the bad teaching to continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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