Scientific research for supernatural?

[Diatheosis]

I consider this small task as sowing seeds, that at a time may begin to produce harvest. Those of us who were not blessed to have profound healthy, born again Christian home, and even some of those who had, at a time we may have been stubborn and even ridiculed the Word of God no matter how it was delivered and what kind of testimonies. It just did not do it because other stuff took the place God ought to have in our lives.

 

The power of God is so amazing, sometimes even the most cruelsome  mockery may hide the last attempts of the mind to make the decision for salvation, and if we just let the seed drop, soon the rain of the Holy Spirit shall water it and most amazing harvest is produced. Think of Paul, you've got to do quite a bit to beat his score to work against the gospel and yet what came out of it? And even though he got revelation, it was the fellow Christians who then helped it to melt down and apply in the practical life.

 

I think therefore it is important not to lose temper for those who not yet know Him, we never know at what point are they in their search. We might be the last stop before the heavens open, and our testimony (and HOW it is being delivered especially!) can have an impact as to where they navigate as lacking Christ's guidance may delay their salvation quite a bit, as we appear as just another religious fanatic who believe in God but seem not to know Him that very well.

 

That being said, I still do have strong confidence that God is on top of things, no matter what happens.

 

But if any of you find some interesting research about how prayers are found having effect in healing etc., sharing it here might bring some seekers and even most stubborn atheists at the gates of the kingdom of God.

 

Although, the soup is the same, the basic ingredients are the same, the spices may vary. Which is to say, we are saved through Jesus by believing in Him, but how exactly do we come to the point that we find it a good thing to be done, is a matter of personal taste. Some fall in love with Him because He is so radical in His love, some because He is gentle, some because He is just, some because of His mercy etc.

 

We all are different and that's the way God created it and saw it was good. I fell in love with Jesus because I found out He does things that go beyond the comfort zone, He just does not care what's the social value but what actually is righteous and holy. Because this world is in need of more of that. Still His love is eternal. That's quite a combination you don't get that often.

 

Got a bit offtopic (again) but watch'ya gonna do? Can't avoid speaking of Him constantly because He rules, literally If you did not know that before, perhaps it's a time to get it known and experienced. Jesus is online all the time forever.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Diatheosis

[Guest]

 Salvation Is The LORD's Work

 

And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. Acts 2:46-47

 

Joy Too

 

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. John 4:22-24

 

~

 

After spending some time now to bring the gospel to atheists, I was wondering if anyone can share some good research done which 'proves' we are all not nut-cases. I have all the testimony it requires to know God not only exists but actively is seeking to reveal Himself to us, in ways that He sees actually help the cause of kingdom, but that's not enough since most of the people don't know me personally to know it's accountable testimony I give.

 

So, in addition praying for revelation upon them, I suppose there should be some 'water-proof' study on the subject (like prayer power etc.).

 

Might be just as good to have some of that listed here for everyone's benefit if such thread does not already exist here.

 

Although, I am not saying we ought to debate scientifically only, sometimes it might make our side more trustworthy during this material age.

 

~

 

The Knowledge (The Science) Of The God Of Abraham, Isaac And Israel

 

The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider. Isaiah 1:3

 

Is So Far About The Mind Of Man

 

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:7-9

 

That Man Is Lost

 

So why shouldn't I be concerned about Nineveh, that great city, in which there are more than 120,000 human beings who do not know their right hand from their left, as well as a lot of livestock? Jonah 4:11 (NIV)

 

Without Him

 

Jesus answered, "My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me. If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. John 7:16-17 (NIV)

 

You See

 

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. John 6:44 (NASB)

 

~

 

Praying~!

[thomas t]

Hello Diatheosis,

 

in my opinion, there is a problem with scientific testing for prayer effects as this kind of test would set Jesus under pressure. If he refused to answer the prayer, people will come and say anything and everything about the effects of prayres. This is where the pressure comes from, in my opinion. So, I wonder, who would ever take part in this kind of experiment? Why should we set Jesus under pressure just for having scientific data? I mean, why stressing our relationship with our Lord?

 

On top, we actually don't need this kind of testing because, luckily, the word of God is all we need.

 

 

Have a good day,

Thomas

 

P.S.: BTW, I've had this discussion with poster Viole in the one of our debates we had in the faith vs. science forum.

She argued that there wasn't any positive effect of prayers that could be shown in the tests conduted so far.

 

 

 

 

[Diatheosis]

I agree that being sort of problem here; who believer really wished to tempt God in this way? But, I think, God very well could give some marginal indication of such effect to stand for the record. Not to be repeated all over again, for Christ's sake, it is utter foolishness to think one could start playing around with God's purposes. So that's not what I believe either.

 

Actually I found some experiment done in this way. If we look at it, if the believers praying are genuine, and really pray from their heart for someone to be healed, why would that not happen on the other hand? As long as we realize it's not some spoon bending contest etc. Elijah went quite publicly against the priests of Baal too and confronted them. As for that kind of public stand, I wonder if there is a difference between getting it somehow written down and compared?

 

For the believer, such a thing of course seems more like a waste of time because we already experience God's overcoming power on a daily basis, but for some not knowing God it might very well be a testimony that counts. Even though, as I mentioned before, you probably won't get that public confession of that too easily

 

The actual problem might be, to be scientific it should be repeated all over again and so forth. And that's really not how you approach the Almighty. I mean, sure, sometimes we keep on praying on something until He answers, but only to see if it really worked? Don't know if He appreciated that much such quality of asking.

 

But yes, such a great blessing to have the instruction book and the real manual of life eternal which renews our minds and the whole being every time we let the power of Word sink into us.

 

What I am looking for is basically just a marginal phenomenon but which could be handy in some occasions. My heart is among the nonbelievers, because I once was one of them and know the darkness of that reality. So I wish to extend a helping hand and help them realize where the light is. For the Jew be a Jew; for the gentile be a gentile; for the nonbeliever, state the facts.

 

But do not stop mourning for the results for it is God who causes the growth to happen at a time.

[Guest]

Hello Diatheosis,

 

in my opinion, there is a problem with scientific testing for prayer effects as this kind of test would set Jesus under pressure. If he refused to answer the prayer, people will come and say anything and everything about the effects of prayers. This is where the pressure comes from, in my opinion. So, I wonder, who would ever take part in this kind of experiment? Why should we set Jesus under pressure just for having scientific data? I mean, why stressing our relationship with our Lord?

 

On top, we actually don't need this kind of testing because, luckily, the word of God is all we need.

 

 

Have a good day,

Thomas

 

P.S.: BTW, I've had this discussion with poster Viole in the one of our debates we had in the faith vs. science forum.

She argued that there wasn't any positive effect of prayers that could be shown in the tests conducted so far.

 

~

 

A

 

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

 

Test

 

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. Hebrews 3:17

 

Of Truth

 

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

 

Sadly Most Will Fail

 

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Matthew 7:13-15

 

Including Many If Not Most PH.D's (Doctors of Philosophy)

 

See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ. Colossians 2:8 (NIV)

 

Who Remain Too Proud To Be Teachable

 

For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones. Isaiah 57:15

 

You See

 

~

 

Praying For Viole And Her Husband

[Andrew Wabomba]

Is it possible that science be used to

demonstrate that prayer actually

works? No. It cannot. Here's why.

Science is the process of learning

about the universe and how it

behaves. The scientific method deals

with observation, developing a

hypothesis, testing the hypothesis

through experimentation, and then

developing a workable theory to

explain behavior.

So, we have to ask how science could

be used to demonstrate whether not

prayer works. Do they want

repeatable experiments and regular

quantifiable data so that the efficacy

of prayer can be tested and

measured? That would be a

problem. If prayer "A" resulted in

effect "B," then we would see a

correspondence of prayer and result

-- something the atheist could see

and verify. But if this were the case,

such a phenomena would not be a

demonstration that God exists.

Instead, it would be a demonstration

that uttering certain words in certain

patterns brings certain results. This

would imply that a new property of

the universe has been discovered,

and that by saying certain words

certain results occur. Essentially this

would amount to sorcery and would

not demonstrate that God exists.

[Ninevite]

Well, sir

 

On the lighter side...You have Ancient Aliens, UFO Hunters, Ghost Hunters International, Viper Paranormal, and T.A.P.S to prove that demons exist. You also have many cases of demonic possession to choose from. Just google 'demonic possession'. There are many recorded cases that are quite convincing. Also, google miracles, many cool stories and recorded events that can only be explained by devine intervention. Check out some of the stories from the show 'Beyond Belief: fact or fiction". Check that out. Some amazing cases. This can be a research project for you on the side, just to gather information. You have to sort through a lot of it though, seperate the wheat...know what I mean? A lot of it is hocus pocus designed to entertain, but hey, when people laugh more they learn more.

 

And to get serious...

 

There is a mountain of scientific data to confirm the Genesis account and a young earth.

 

You can check ICR (Institute for Creation Research), AIG (Answers in Genesis) or Creation Today. The evidence in favor of Jesus being the creator of the universe is absolutely overwhelming. If you can't convince someone with the sources I've listed then they are willingly ignorant and you have done all you can do.

 

Look up Dr. Jason Lisle, Mike Riddle, Ken Ham...etc. There are many books on this type of thing. Check out a book by Henry Morris called 'Many infallible proofs'. That one is awesome!

 

If that don't work...

 

Kick the dust off your feet and leave them to their fate.