Split: Unity... Church Leadership and Denominations

[Sanh]

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Which one is the real body of Christ? The real body of Christ are those people who might be in different places around the globe today, but all of them, no exception, are under the personal tutelage of the Lord Jesus Christ himself and the Lord himself is their only Teacher, Pastor, and Good Shepherd thus One Flock under the LORD.

 

What you should have asked is "why is there no unity today in different/various local churches where each group claims to be in the body of Christ," are they really in the body of Christ?

 

1. In the real body of Christ, the LORD JESUS is the only Good Shepherd/Teacher of all and no one in the body acts as pastor or leader of any local churches for there is no such thing as local churches in the real body of Christ since there is only one body whose head is Christ himself and not men as various denominational/full gospel/non-sectarian biblical Christian churches do have today.  Bear in mind that everybody in the body of Christ is at par with each other and only the Lord Jesus is over and above them all.

 

2.  The simple reason why there is no unity in today's various religious denominations claiming to be Christian in nature is simply because they (various religious denominations..) are not under the tutelage and shepherding of the Lord Jesus Christ himself. What is apparent is that they are all under the tutelage of different learned men/ministers/lay leaders who use the bible as their means in knowing God and the things about Christianity thus the difference of teachings/notions and opinions and the result is division of religion.

Edited August 19, 2013 by GoldenEagle
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[GoldenEagle]

 

Why is there no unity in the body of Christ?

 

There are disputes on every single point of doctrine there is. Very few agree on a lot of things. Even fewer agree on most things. I've never come across 2 believers that agreed on everything. The bible states in the book of Acts that the Apostles were of 1 accord. The first believers were in unity. With each other and Christ .

 

Why aren't we?

 

People often say it's ok, because we are never going to agree on everything. But, the bible says Christ is not divided. Where is the unity? Is it we understand the scripture differently? Well, if we are all being led to the truth by the same Holy Spirit, then shouldn't it be the same truth we arrive at?  Is it because we are at different places in our walk with Christ? But even then, the same core truth should be there, should be the same. Just built upon. Line upon line. An unfolding living revelation coming from the living Word.

 

How can every believer be hearing and being led by the same Holy Spirit and all of us come to different answers to the exact same questions? Why is it seen as such a bad thing to say " I don't know " or " I was wrong ". If Christ is love, then shouldn't unity start there to? Isn't forgiveness apart of love?

 

Where is the Unity?

 

May the living Lord Jesus Bless you all

 

Firestormx

Joseph

 

 

Which one is the real body of Christ? The real body of Christ are those people who might be in different places around the globe today, but all of them, no exception, are under the personal tutelage of the Lord Jesus Christ himself and the Lord himself is their only Teacher, Pastor, and Good Shepherd thus One Flock under the LORD.

 

What you should have asked is "why is there no unity today in different/various local churches where each group claims to be in the body of Christ," are they really in the body of Christ?

 

1. In the real body of Christ, the LORD JESUS is the only Good Shepherd/Teacher of all and no one in the body acts as pastor or leader of any local churches for there is no such thing as local churches in the real body of Christ since there is only one body whose head is Christ himself and not men as various denominational/full gospel/non-sectarian biblical Christian churches do have today.  Bear in mind that everybody in the body of Christ is at par with each other and only the Lord Jesus is over and above them all.

 

2.  The simple reason why there is no unity in today's various religious denominations claiming to be Christian in nature is simply because they (various religious denominations..) are not under the tutelage and shepherding of the Lord Jesus Christ himself. What is apparent is that they are all under the tutelage of different learned men/ministers/lay leaders who use the bible as their means in knowing God and the things about Christianity thus the difference of teachings/notions and opinions and the result is division of religion.

 

 

Interesting perspective. I'd like to ask some questions for clarification.

 

1. Are you saying that there should be no pastors or deacons/elders in the Church today?

 

2. Are you saying that people who are within or a part of a church denomination are not following Christ?

Curious.

God bless,

GE

[Sanh]

 

 

Which one is the real body of Christ? The real body of Christ are those people who might be in different places around the globe today, but all of them, no exception, are under the personal tutelage of the Lord Jesus Christ himself and the Lord himself is their only Teacher, Pastor, and Good Shepherd thus One Flock under the LORD.

 

What you should have asked is "why is there no unity today in different/various local churches where each group claims to be in the body of Christ," are they really in the body of Christ?

 

1. In the real body of Christ, the LORD JESUS is the only Good Shepherd/Teacher of all and no one in the body acts as pastor or leader of any local churches for there is no such thing as local churches in the real body of Christ since there is only one body whose head is Christ himself and not men as various denominational/full gospel/non-sectarian biblical Christian churches do have today.  Bear in mind that everybody in the body of Christ is at par with each other and only the Lord Jesus is over and above them all.

 

2.  The simple reason why there is no unity in today's various religious denominations claiming to be Christian in nature is simply because they (various religious denominations..) are not under the tutelage and shepherding of the Lord Jesus Christ himself. What is apparent is that they are all under the tutelage of different learned men/ministers/lay leaders who use the bible as their means in knowing God and the things about Christianity thus the difference of teachings/notions and opinions and the result is division of religion.

 

 

Interesting perspective. I'd like to ask some questions for clarification.

 

1. Are you saying that there should be no pastors or deacons/elders in the Church today?

 

2. Are you saying that people who are within or a part of a church denomination are not following Christ?

Curious.

God bless,

GE

 

 

 

1.  Yes, there should be no men pastors or deacons/elders in the real body of Christ because the Lord  Jesus Himself is the only Pastor in His church.

 

2.  Let me try to answer this one in an interrogative manner, who do  you see/think lead those people within denominational churches of today, men pastors who are guided by their wisdom and the bible or the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, alive and real, and in His own terms or manners of running the affairs of His church? Is the Lord Jesus the bible?

Edited August 19, 2013 by Sanh

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

Interesting perspective. I'd like to ask some questions for clarification.

 

1. Are you saying that there should be no pastors or deacons/elders in the Church today?

 

2. Are you saying that people who are within or a part of a church denomination are not following Christ?

Curious.

God bless,

GE

 

 

 

1.  Yes, there should be no men pastors or deacons/elders in the real body of Christ because the Lord  Jesus Himself is the only Pastor in His church.

 

 

I find your response to #1 to be contrary to Scripture. Jesus Christ is indeed the head of the Church. Yet the Bible is clear there are at least two offices (Bishop/Overseer and Deacon/Elder; some view the position of Deacon and Elder as two seperate positions in the Church). But perhaps let's dig into Scripture and discuss this further.

 

 

1a. Are you saying Paul was wrong in calling together the elders of the church? Was it wrong for them to have elders in Ephesus?

 

Acts 20:17-21

¹⁷ From Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called for the elders of the church. ¹⁸ And when they had come to him, he said to them: “You know, from the first day that I came to Asia, in what manner I always lived among you, ¹⁹ serving the Lord with all humility, with many tears and trials which happened to me by the plotting of the Jews; ²⁰ how I kept back nothing that was helpful, but proclaimed it to you, and taught you publicly and from house to house, ²¹ testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

 

1b. Are you saying the Holy Spirit didn't appoint overseers or bishops in Ephesus? Was this not a Biblical model for church leadership?

 

Acts 20:28-30

²⁸ Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers <bishops>, to shepherd the church of Godwhich He purchased with His own blood. ²⁹ For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. ³⁰ Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.

 

 

 

1c. Was Paul wrong in the pastoral letters/epistles (1 & 2 Tim, Titus) to tell Timothy to appoint elders in every city as commanded by Paul? Wa Paul acting of his own will or the Holy Spirit?

Titus 1:5-9

Qualified Elders

⁵ For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you— ⁶ if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination. ⁷ For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, ⁸ but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled, ⁹ holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.

 

 

1d. Why would Paul say through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that desiring to be a bishop (overseer) was a good? If the positions of Overseer (Bishop) and Deacon (elder) was not to be the model for the Church why would Paul give specific instructions on these positions and how to fill them in the Church? Why would the Holy Spirit lead Paul to say that serving as a deacon would obtain them good standing and great boldeness in {proclaiming} the faith?

 

1 Tim 3:1-13

Qualifications of Overseers

3 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. ² A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; ³ not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; ⁴ one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence ⁵ (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); ⁶ not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. ⁷ Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Qualifications of Deacons

⁸ Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, ⁹ holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. ¹⁰ But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless. ¹¹ Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. ¹² Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. ¹³ For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

 

Curious as to your thoughts?

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

 

2.  Let me try to answer this one in an interrogative manner, who do  you see/think lead those people within denominational churches of today, men pastors who are guided by their wisdom and the bible or the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, alive and real, and in His own terms or manners of running the affairs of His church? Is the Lord Jesus the bible?

 

 

#2 The leader of the denominational churches is Jesus Christ with the assistance of the Helper (the Holy Spirit). The leaders of denominations are guided by the Holy Spirit through Scripture, prayer, fasting, etc. in spreading the Gospel and making disciples in Jesus name.

Or do you believe otherwise?

God bless,

GE

[Guest man]

#2 The leader of the denominational churches is Jesus Christ with the assistance of the Helper (the Holy Spirit). The leaders of denominations are guided by the Holy Spirit through Scripture, prayer, fasting, etc. in spreading the Gospel and making disciples in Jesus name.

 

 

 

If Jesus is the leader, why are there so many divisions? Why is there no unity?  

[JDavis]

The leader of the denominational churches is Jesus Christ with the assistance of the Helper (the Holy Spirit). The leaders of denominations are guided by the Holy Spirit through Scripture, prayer, fasting, etc. in spreading the Gospel and making disciples in Jesus name.

If Jesus is the leader, why are there so many divisions? Why is there no unity?

We are still human.

There was division among those walking and taking with Jesus for 3 years.

There was division in the first Christians.

We will not have perfect unity on this earth in these bodies

[Sanh]

#2 The leader of the denominational churches is Jesus Christ with the assistance of the Helper (the Holy Spirit). The leaders of denominations are guided by the Holy Spirit through Scripture, prayer, fasting, etc. in spreading the Gospel and making disciples in Jesus name.

Or do you believe otherwise?

God bless,

GE

 

 

 

That's what every denominational churches today claim for themselves - their leader is the Lord Jesus Christ, that's what they say. I was in to a denominational church before the Lord Jesus came down to us and I know that our pastor and leader then in that church is not the Lord Jesus but the man pastor who used the bible in teaching the whole congregation throughout his life. If the leader of denominational churches today, as you claim, is the Lord Jesus, why do they have men pastors within them when no one in the church of the Lord is allowed to act as pastor or teacher over his fellow brothers in Christ?

 

How can you explain to me that the HS is assisting the Lord in leading those denominational churches, how many HS is out there? Have you experienced the HS teaching you or your congregation?

[Sanh]

 

We are still human.

There was division among those walking and taking with Jesus for 3 years.

There was division in the first Christians.

We will not have perfect unity on this earth in these bodies

 

 

But one thing is sure and absolute, that the Lord Jesus himself, alive and real though unseen at the moment, is the only Pastor/Great Shepherd/Teacher in His Church and no men pastors are allowed unlike what denominational churches of today have in them.

[GoldenEagle]

 

#2 The leader of the denominational churches is Jesus Christ with the assistance of the Helper (the Holy Spirit). The leaders of denominations are guided by the Holy Spirit through Scripture, prayer, fasting, etc. in spreading the Gospel and making disciples in Jesus name.

Or do you believe otherwise?

God bless,

GE

 

 

 

That's what every denominational churches today claim for themselves - their leader is the Lord Jesus Christ, that's what they say. I was in to a denominational church before the Lord Jesus came down to us and I know that our pastor and leader then in that church is not the Lord Jesus but the man pastor who used the bible in teaching the whole congregation throughout his life. If the leader of denominational churches today, as you claim, is the Lord Jesus, why do they have men pastors within them when no one in the church of the Lord is allowed to act as pastor or teacher over his fellow brothers in Christ?

 

How can you explain to me that the HS is assisting the Lord in leading those denominational churches, how many HS is out there? Have you experienced the HS teaching you or your congregation?

 

 

What do you mean you were into a denominational church before the Lord Jesus came down to us? I don't understand.

 

I'm not sure I follow your line of thinking or questioning. Are you saying that the Church is only composed of non-denominational churches? So that Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Assembly of God, Catholics, Orthodox, etc. are not saved or part of the Church of Christ?

 

Sure, I have experienced God's Holy Spirit teaching me through His Word - the Bible. I have experienced God teaching me various things through HIs Holy Spirit in Bible studies, discussions, and sermons. Have you?

 

As to this in red still waiting on a response to your point #1. For reference it's I think we need to address this basic building block of church leadership pastors/deacons/elders before going further... Don't you?

 

God bless,

GE