Split: Unity... Church Leadership and Denominations

[JDavis]

We are still human.

There was division among those walking and taking with Jesus for 3 years.

There was division in the first Christians.

We will not have perfect unity on this earth in these bodies

But one thing is sure and absolute, that the Lord Jesus himself, alive and real though unseen at the moment, is the only Pastor/Great Shepherd/Teacher in His Church and no men pastors are allowed unlike what denominational churches of today have in them.

Then Paul, Peter, James, and more are all heretics for daring to leading groups of Christians.

Paul was the worst, he even gave rules for pastors. Why did God allow these people into the Bible?

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

We are still human.

There was division among those walking and taking with Jesus for 3 years.

There was division in the first Christians.

We will not have perfect unity on this earth in these bodies

 

 

But one thing is sure and absolute, that the Lord Jesus himself, alive and real though unseen at the moment, is the only Pastor/Great Shepherd/Teacher in His Church and no men pastors are allowed unlike what denominational churches of today have in them.

 

 

Again as to this in red still waiting on a response to your point #1. For reference it's I think we need to address this basic building block of church leadership pastors/deacons/elders before going further...

 

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

 

#2 The leader of the denominational churches is Jesus Christ with the assistance of the Helper (the Holy Spirit). The leaders of denominations are guided by the Holy Spirit through Scripture, prayer, fasting, etc. in spreading the Gospel and making disciples in Jesus name.

 

 

 

If Jesus is the leader, why are there so many divisions? Why is there no unity?  

 

 

That is a good question and is discussed in the original thread.

See:  

 

This split thread is particularly discussing first church leadership and second denominations.

 

I'd recommend reading posts #4, #13, #14, #20, #24... There's plenty of discussion there.

God bless,

GE

 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

#2 The leader of the denominational churches is Jesus Christ with the assistance of the Helper (the Holy Spirit). The leaders of denominations are guided by the Holy Spirit through Scripture, prayer, fasting, etc. in spreading the Gospel and making disciples in Jesus name.

 

 

 

If Jesus is the leader, why are there so many divisions? Why is there no unity?  

 

If denominations are "divisions" and thus an impediment to "unity," what form should that unity take?   When you refer to "unity" what exactly do you mean by that term?  I know lots of churches of different denominations that work  together all of the time and get along quite well and pull together in "unity" for the sake of bettering the community.   What do you mean by the term, "unity?"

[Guest man]

 

 

#2 The leader of the denominational churches is Jesus Christ with the assistance of the Helper (the Holy Spirit). The leaders of denominations are guided by the Holy Spirit through Scripture, prayer, fasting, etc. in spreading the Gospel and making disciples in Jesus name.

 

 

 

If Jesus is the leader, why are there so many divisions? Why is there no unity?  

 

 

That is a good question and is discussed in the original thread.

See:  

 

This split thread is particularly discussing first church leadership and second denominations.

 

I'd recommend reading posts #4, #13, #14, #20, #24... There's plenty of discussion there.

God bless,

GE

 

 

 

 

Instead of directing me to another thread, why not just answer the question?   

[TsukinoRei]

1 corinthians 1

10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: one of you says, ‘I follow Paul’; another, ‘I follow Apollos’; another, ‘I follow Cephas[b]’; still another, ‘I follow Christ.’

13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptised in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptise any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptised in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptised the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptised anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptise, but to preach the gospel – not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

 

1Corinthians 4

6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, ‘Do not go beyond what is written.’ Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other. 7 For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?

 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

1 corinthians 1

10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: one of you says, ‘I follow Paul’; another, ‘I follow Apollos’; another, ‘I follow Cephas[b]’; still another, ‘I follow Christ.’

13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptised in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptise any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptised in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptised the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptised anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptise, but to preach the gospel – not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

 

1Corinthians 4

6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, ‘Do not go beyond what is written.’ Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other. 7 For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?

 

 

This has nothing to do with denominations.  Paul was addressing strife and division within a local congregation. His complaint was not that the Corinthians believed something different from the Philippians and the Philippians believed different than the Laodecians or stuff like that.

[Elhanan]

1. In the real body of Christ, the LORD JESUS is the only Good Shepherd/Teacher of all (true) and no one in the body acts as pastor or leader of any local churches for there is no such thing as local churches (many house churches in NT) in the real body of Christ since there is only one body whose head is Christ himself and not men as various denominational/full gospel/non-sectarian biblical Christian churches do have today. (elders were appointed to serve & guide the church; not lead the church) Bear in mind that everybody in the body of Christ is at par with each other and only the Lord Jesus is over and above them all. (true)

Matt 23:8-10  "But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. ⁹ Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. ¹⁰ Do not be called ^[a]leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ."

 

2.  The simple reason why there is no unity in today's various religious denominations claiming to be Christian in nature is simply because they (various religious denominations..) are not under the tutelage and shepherding of the Lord Jesus Christ himself. What is apparent is that they are all under the tutelage of different learned men/ministers/lay leaders who use the bible as their means in knowing God and the things about Christianity thus the difference of teachings/notions and opinions and the result is division of religion.

True, the problem is that most congregations remain dependent on the senior pastor to teach and lead them.  After all that's what he gets paid for and as more people depend on him, the more his church grows [numerically].  They remain under his tutelage rather than under the tutelage of the Spirit.

1 Jn 2:27  "As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him."

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

 

#2 The leader of the denominational churches is Jesus Christ with the assistance of the Helper (the Holy Spirit). The leaders of denominations are guided by the Holy Spirit through Scripture, prayer, fasting, etc. in spreading the Gospel and making disciples in Jesus name.

 

 

 

If Jesus is the leader, why are there so many divisions? Why is there no unity?  

 

 

That is a good question and is discussed in the original thread.

See:  

 

This split thread is particularly discussing first church leadership and second denominations.

 

I'd recommend reading posts #4, #13, #14, #20, #24... There's plenty of discussion there.

God bless,

GE

 

 

 

 

Instead of directing me to another thread, why not just answer the question?   

 

 

Regarding divisions God uses divisions to spread His Word - the message is the same the methodology and specifics is different. Take Paul and Barnabus split over John Mark for example.

 

As to discussing unity... Because this is a split topic and the other discussion is still active.

 

I gave my perspective on unity in that thread: and  Perhaps you missed these?

 

Also check out Shiloh's I think he had a great perspective on unity and comformity.

God bless,

GE

[Guest shiloh357]

1. In the real body of Christ, the LORD JESUS is the only Good Shepherd/Teacher of all (true) and no one in the body acts as pastor or leader of any local churches for there is no such thing as local churches (many house churches in NT) in the real body of Christ since there is only one body whose head is Christ himself and not men as various denominational/full gospel/non-sectarian biblical Christian churches do have today. (elders were appointed to serve & guide the church; not lead the church) Bear in mind that everybody in the body of Christ is at par with each other and only the Lord Jesus is over and above them all. (true)

Matt 23:8-10  "But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. ⁹ Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. ¹⁰ Do not be called ^[a]leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ."

 

2.  The simple reason why there is no unity in today's various religious denominations claiming to be Christian in nature is simply because they (various religious denominations..) are not under the tutelage and shepherding of the Lord Jesus Christ himself. What is apparent is that they are all under the tutelage of different learned men/ministers/lay leaders who use the bible as their means in knowing God and the things about Christianity thus the difference of teachings/notions and opinions and the result is division of religion.

True, the problem is that most congregations remain dependent on the senior pastor to teach and lead them.  After all that's what he gets paid for and as more people depend on him, the more his church grows [numerically].  They remain under his tutelage rather than under the tutelage of the Spirit.

1 Jn 2:27  "As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him."

If we don't need pastors then why would Paul have written Eph. 4:8-16?  That passage makes no sense if John means that we don't need teachers.  Clearly we need them or God would not have sent them to us.

 

 I John 2:27 parallels verse 24 and is part of a the same line of thought.   John in this passage is saying that they have no need of a teacher regarding the truth that already abides in them.  He is not saying that they no longer have need of a pastor or teacher at all.