Willa Posted August 24, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,256 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 16,671 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 24, 2013 I have rewritten your post as a way of replying. Example 1: Say God creates humanity in mothers womb. Today God creates a baby whom He can forsee will be named Joseph Dunn. God says, "Ok, I'm gonna create Joseph Dunn. I can already see that He's gonna live till he's 72 years old and have 5 grandchildren. He's gonna have a good wife and a good life, but he's gonna go to hell when he dies because I can see that he will reject Jesus. Today God creates a baby named Michael Jennings. God says, "Ok, I'm gonna create Michael Jennings. I can look ahead and see He's gonna live till he's 87 years old and have 2 grandchildren. He's gonna have a good wife and a good life, and he's gonna go to heaven when he dies. because he chose to receive My Son Jesus Christ. Example 2: Say you end up getting married and having 4 children. How many of those children do you love? Do you love only 3 out of 4, or maybe you only love two of your children. God says, "Even though I have created you from your mothers womb I do not love all of you, just some of you---because I can forsee that some of you will hate my Son till you die and persecute and even turture those who have chosen Him. Some of you will simply be too proud and stubborn to receive My love in My Son, even though it has been offered to you. (The rest is blasphemy so I won't repeat it). I believe that God so loves the World, that he gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes on Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:18 He who believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. NKJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted August 24, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,993 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,691 Content Per Day: 11.76 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 24, 2013 God leaves the choice to us. But He chooses those whom He can forsee will Choose Him. He predestins them to salvation. Since everyone is bound for hell by default, only those who choose Christ escape hell. Their names are written in the Lambs Book of Life. But where's the "choice" if God's omniscience is more notable than our free will. God leaves the choice to us, but HE chooses?? I don't understand, which one is it? DRS,I don't think God chooses.I think God wants everyone to go to Heaven and be saved.I think WE choose.Life is full of choices and that is one of them.Where do you want to spend your eternity?Heaven or hell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DRS81 Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Aren't we saying here that God is a mass murdering psychopathic, that maybe is worse than Hitler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted August 24, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,256 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 16,671 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 24, 2013 God can see the future and the past all at the same time because He is eternal. He is always in the "now". His name is I AM . He can see the beginning and the end at the same time. He said: I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. Rev. 1:8 Since he can see the end of the movie and knows how we will turn out, He has prepared heaven for all who at the end of the movie have chosen Christ. If someone doesn't want to go to heaven at the end of the movie He does not choose them. But God watches the end of the movie before the people are even created. He can do that because He is God. From God's point of view, He chooses. From our point of view we receive Him. God's grace is offered to everyone, but those who actively resist saving faith won't go to heaven. Those who passively receive the gift of saving faith will be saved. For by grace are you saved through faith, and not of yourselves;. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Eph. 2:9 NKJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted August 24, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,993 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,691 Content Per Day: 11.76 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 24, 2013 The Bible says that we all have a choice to believe in Jesus Christ and be saved.If God is choosing it is not fair.Jesus is the most fair of anyone we have ever experienced on this Earth. John 3:16For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Romans 10:9-10that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted August 24, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,256 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 16,671 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 24, 2013 Aren't we saying here that God is a mass murdering psychopathic, that maybe is worse than Hitler. This is very offensive to God and to all believers. It is you who are calling God such blasphamous things. Our God is a holy and righteous God. He does all things well. We are not God that we can stand in judgement of Him. You can be kicked off this forum for repeating what you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted August 24, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,993 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,691 Content Per Day: 11.76 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 24, 2013 God can see the future and the past all at the same time because He is eternal. He is always in the "now". His name is I AM . He can see the beginning and the end at the same time. He said: I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. Rev. 1:8 Since he can see the end of the movie and knows how we will turn out, He has prepared heaven for all who at the end of the movie have chosen Christ. If someone doesn't want to go to heaven at the end of the movie He does not choose them. But God watches the end of the movie before the people are even created. He can do that because He is God. From God's point of view, He chooses. From our point of view we receive Him. God's grace is offered to everyone, but those who actively resist saving faith won't go to heaven. Those who passively receive the gift of saving faith will be saved. For by grace are you saved through faith, and not of yourselves;. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Eph. 2:9 NKJV Yes,God knows before we are born if we will go to Heaven and he knows if we will make that choice or not.But He does not choose and say "Ok,you Betty will go to Heaven but John over there will not". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elhanan Posted August 24, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 322 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/18/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 24, 2013 Aren't we saying here that God is a mass murdering psychopathic, that maybe is worse than Hitler. This is very offensive to God and to all believers. It is you who are calling God such blasphamous things. Our God is a holy and righteous God. He does all things well. We are not God that we can stand in judgement of Him. You can be kicked off this forum for repeating what you said. I don't find it offensive as I recognize he is making a philosophical argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DRS81 Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Aren't we saying here that God is a mass murdering psychopathic, that maybe is worse than Hitler. This is very offensive to God and to all believers. It is you who are calling God such blasphamous things. Our God is a holy and righteous God. He does all things well. We are not God that we can stand in judgement of Him. You can be kicked off this forum for repeating what you said. It was a question not a statement. I wasn't trying to offend, rather I was trying to make people think about the OP. I'm trying understand God's way of thinking here. Since a lot of people are without hope since birth and will burn in hell, why does God create them in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted August 24, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,256 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 16,671 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 24, 2013 Aren't we saying here that God is a mass murdering psychopathic, that maybe is worse than Hitler. This is very offensive to God and to all believers. It is you who are calling God such blasphamous things. Our God is a holy and righteous God. He does all things well. We are not God that we can stand in judgement of Him. You can be kicked off this forum for repeating what you said. It was a question not a statement. I wasn't trying to offend, rather I was trying to make people think about the OP. I'm trying understand God's way of thinking here. Since a lot of people are without hope since birth and will burn in hell, why does God create them in the first place. God created us to have a group of people who love Him and are with them because they want to be there. He offers a place in heaven to everyone. But some people have chosen not to go there. Sometimes they are just too proud to admit they need God's help. They want to do it their own way. Pride is one of the worst sins in God's eyes because it prevents people from knowing Him and His love for them. Jesus said people did not receive Him because their deeds were evil. I don't know other peoples hearts or why they don't receive Him. I do know that I need to pray for them and ask God to open their eyes. And I know that they don't understand that God came not for the righteous but for sinners. Some people try to manipulate God as though He were just a person. Some people don't want anyone messing with their lives and want to be their own bosses. Other people who are born without hearing about Christ have a law of their own culture, and God does give them a way to instinctively desire His mercy just as He did people in the old testament such as Abraham. Read the first few chapters of the book of Romans since it answers all these questions and shows that we are all in need of a Savior, no matter who we are. It also explains that some people know they have done wrong and choose to trust that Creator God is a merciful God Who will somehow provide a way for them to go to heaven. They have all of creation declaring that there is a Creator. Some of these people tell how God has led them to other nations to a missionary where they were saved. God has mercy on those who live up to the light given them, but we still only can go to heaven by faith in Jesus. So those who have died without Christ I have to believe must have had hard unreceptive hearts at the end of the movie. We are told that the fields are ripe for the harvest, and that we are to pray that God send workers, missionaries, into the fields. Perhaps He is calling right now, but who is willing to go? Are you willing to tell your friends and family about Christ? Do you pray for them? We are all called to make disciples and to tell what God has done in our own lives. Perhaps your questions are something you will understand better in time, as you come to know the Bible better. Or else it will remain one of the questions you can ask God when you get to heaven. I know that I have a list. Meanwhile, I trust that I serve a merciful, loving God Who is completely fair, righteous and just in all that He does. I have come to that conclusion by continually reading His Word to know Him better and by trying my best to hear His voice and do what He has prepared for me to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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