Mystery Babylon: U.N or Vatican?

[niki23]

I really like this

 

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/america_babylon.htm

[niki23]

Jeremiah 50:12

"Your mother shall be sore confounded;

she that bare you shall be ashamed:

BEHOLD, THE HINDER-MOST OF THE NATIONS

shall be a wilderness, a dry land, and a desert."

 

This is a direct reference to BABYLON THE GREAT, who is also called THE DAUGHTER OF BABYLON. Jeremiah calls her directly THE HINDERMOST OF THE NATIONS. You view this his perspective, as he looks down the tunnel of time - the HINDERMOST from him would be the LAST BABYLON. That means the LAST BABYLON TO RISE BEFORE THE END. The last and the YOUNGEST OF ALL THE GREAT NATIONS AT THE END TIME. In comparison with the other nations of the world, at the time of the end, SHE WILL BE THE YOUNGEST AND ALSO THE MOST POWERFUL NATION AMONG THE GREAT NATIONS. America fits that description perfectly. She is the YOUNGEST and yet the most powerful NATION among the NATIONS of the world.

 

We know for a fact that this must refer to a limited LAND MASS AREA WITH SPECIFIC BOUNDARIES, for THE WHOLE WORLD IS NOT DESTROYED, but BABYLON THE NATION IS DESTROYED.  This latter day Babylon has a mother, which is also a NATION. This mother was responsible for "birthing" this mighty Babylon of the end times. If Iraq is Babylon as some try to claim, WHO IS THE MOTHER OF IRAQ? If you read this verse carefully, it says that the MOTHER NATION PRECEDED BABYLON, GAVE BIRTH TO HER, WATCHES HER RISE TO FULL POWER, AND WATCHES HER DIE IN FIRE. Again, WHO IS THE MOTHER OF IRAQ? Iraq has none.

 

Who is the mother of Rome, which is often presented as BABYLON? Rome is not a nation, but a city. Further, SHE HAS NO MOTHER.   Who is the mother of the EC, which is often presented as BABYLON, THE REVIVED ROMAN EMPIRE? In point of fact, SHE WILL HAVE NO MOTHER, and further, BABYLON THE GREAT is always shown as a SINGLE NATION FROM HER BIRTH TO HER RISE TO FULL POWER AND GLORY. The EC does not qualify. Each parameter must be fulfilled. You CANNOT PICK AND CHOSE that which you wish to present to prove your case.

 

However, AMERICA has a mother. This mother was DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR HER BIRTH. That mother PRECEDED HER. England has been around awhile. England gave birth to America, and England is still around, and ENGLAND WILL WATCH AMERICA BURN. England is further confirmed as the mother of BABYLON THE GREAT by Daniel the Prophet in Daniel 7:4 (THE LION).  Ezekiel also mentions it in Ezekiel 38/39 as "TARSHISH", who gives birth to "young cubs". Tarshish is a cryptic reference to ENGLAND and her young cubs are America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc. Daniel refers to her as a LION. The national symbol of England is A LION. The eagle wings on top the lion IS AMERICA, HER DAUGHTER. America's national symbol is THE EAGLE WITH OUTSTRETCHED WINGS.

 

The argument that Babylon is ONLY A WORLD SYSTEM utterly contradicts the Lord God and his prophets. BABYLON IS ALWAYS PRESENTED AS A NATION THAT GOES FORTH FROM ONE SPECIFIC LOCATION AND FROM THAT LOCATION CONQUERS THE WHOLE WORLD THROUGH THE SYSTEMS SHE CREATED. A spider weaves a large web, but she has to start from one place. Scripture is adamant and clear: SHE BEGINS AT BABYLON THE NATION, AND BABYLON THE CITY. Through her slowly expanding system of trade, economics, military power, political power and religious power, BABYLON'S WEB SNARES THE WORLD.

That is why God says that THE BLOOD OF THE SAINTS, THE PROPHETS AND ALL THAT WERE SLAIN UPON THE EARTH (Revelation 18:24), CAN BE TRACED BACK TO BABYLON THE NATION, AND TO BABYLON THE LITERAL CITY. It always comes back to roost at the feet of a SINGULAR NATION AND A CITY. America is turning rapidly ANTI-CHRISTIAN. The UNITED NATIONS, for all of its speech about HATRED AND INTOLORENCE, is ANTI-CHRISTIAN TO ITS CORE. God speaks to the United Nations in the Psalms, and MOCKS THEM for taking HIS WORDS IN THEIR MOUTH and then PERVERTING THEM, REVERSING THEM.

 

WHAT THE PROPHETS SAID ABOUT BABYLON

1. Babylon would be an END TIME GREAT NATION (Rev 17,18; Isa 13:6).

2. Babylon would have a huge seaport city within its borders (Rev 18:17).

3. The Great City Babylon is the home of a world government attempt (Rev 17:18).

4. The Great City Babylon would be the economic nerve center of the world (Rev 18:3).

5. Babylon would be the center of a one world Luciferian religious movement (Jer 51:44).

6. Babylon would be the center for the move to a global economic order (Rev 13:16).

BABYLON THE NATION

 

 

1. Babylon would be the youngest and greatest of the end time nations (Jer 50:12).

2. Babylon would the QUEEN AMONG THE NATIONS (Isa 47:5,7; Rev 18:7).

3. Babylon would be the most powerful nation in the world (Isa 47, Jer 50, 51, Rev 18).

4. Babylon would be the HAMMER OF THE WHOLE EARTH (Jer 50:23; Rev 18:23).

5. Babylon is called a lady, and has the symbol of the Lady (Isa 47:7-9).

6. Babylon would be the praise of the WHOLE EARTH (Jer 51:41).

7. Babylon is center of world trade (Jer 51:44; Rev 17:18; 18:19).

8. Babylon would grow to be the richest nation in the world (Rev 18:3, 7, 19, 23).

9. All nations that traded with Babylon would grow rich (Rev 18:3).

10. The merchants of Babylon were the GREAT MEN OF THE EARTH (Rev 18:23).

11. Babylon is a huge nation, with lands, cities, and great wealth (implied throughout).

12. Babylon is nation "peeled", or timbered, a land of open fields (Isa 18:2).

13. Babylon is land quartered by mighty rivers (Isa 18:2).

14. Babylon is a land that is measured out, and populated throughout (Isa 18:2).

15. Babylon destroys her own land, with pollution and waste (Isa 14:20, 18:2, 7).

16. Babylon is a land rich in mineral wealth (Jer 51:13).

17. Babylon is a the leading agricultural nation of the world (Jer 50, 51; Rev 18).

18. Babylon is the leading exporting nation in the world (Jer 51:13; Rev 18).

19. Babylon is the leading importing nation of the entire world.(Jer 50, 51; Rev 18).

20. Babylon is a nation filled with warehouses and granaries (Jer 50:26).

21. Babylon is the leading INDUSTRIAL NATION OF THE WORLD (Isa 13, 47, Jer 50, 51; Rev 18).

22. Babylon is noted for her horses (Jer 50:37).

23. Babylon is noted for her cattle, sheep and other livestock (Jer 50:26, 27; Rev 18:13).

24. Babylon is noted for her fine flour and mill operations (Rev 18:13).

25. Babylon is a nation of farmers and harvests huge crops (Jer 50:16, 26, 27).

26. Babylon is a huge exporter of MUSIC (Rev 18:22).

27. Babylon's musicians are known around the world (Rev 18:22)

28. Babylon has a huge aviation program (Isa 14:13-14; Jer 51:53; Hab 1:6-10).

29. Babylon's skies are filled with the whisper of aircraft wings (Isa 18:1; Jer 51:53).

30. Babylon has a huge space industry, has "mounted up to the heavens" (Jer 51:53).

31. Babylon fortifies her skies with a huge military aviation program (Jer 51:53).

32. Babylon is portrayed as a leading in high tech weapons and abilities (Jer 51:53; Hab 1:6-10; implied throughout).

33. Babylon is a nation filled with warm water seaports (Rev 18:17-19).

34. Babylon is a coastal nation and sits upon MANY WATERS (Jer 51:13).

35. Babylon trades with all who have ships in the sea year round (Rev 18:17-18).

36. Babylon is nation filled with a "mingled" people (Jer 50:37).

37. Babylon is a SINGULAR NATION founded upon OUT OF MANY, ONE (Isa 13, 47, Jer 50, 51, Hab 1).

38. Babylon is a REPUBLIC or a DEMOCRACY, it is ruled by many counsels (Isa 47:13).

39. Babylon's governmental system breaks down (Isa 47:13).

40. Babylon is bogged down with deliberations and cannot govern properly (Isa 47:13).

41. Babylon's leaders use astrology, seers and mystics for guidance (Isa 47:13; Rev 18:2).

42. Babylon labored in the occult from her very inception (Isa 47:12).

43. Babylon falls to the occult just before her end by nuclear fire (Rev 18:2)

44. Babylon was born as a CHRISTIAN NATION (Jer 50:12).

45. Babylon turns upon its heritage and destroys it all in the end (Jer 50:11).

46. Babylon's Christian leaders lead their flock astray in prophecy and salvation (Jer 50:6; implied Rev 18:2).

47. Babylon's Christian leaders are "strangers" in the Lord Houses of Worship (Jer 51:51).

48. The people of Babylon are deep into astrology and spiritism (Isa 47:12; Rev 18:2).

49. Babylon becomes the home of all antichrist religions in the world (Rev 18:2).

50. Babylon is a nation of religious confusion (Isa 47:12-13).

51. Babylon turns upon its own people and imprisons and slays them by millions (Jer 50:7,33; 51:35; 39; Dan 7:25; Rev 13:7; 17:6; 18:24).

52. Babylon sets of detention centers for Jews and Christians and rounds them up for extermination (Jer 50:7, 33; 51:35, 49; Rev 17:6; 18:24).

53. Babylon has a mother nation that remains in existence from her birth to death (Jer 50: 12).

54. The mother of Babylon has the symbol of the LION (Dan7:4; Eze 38:13; Jer 51:38; Psalms 17:12).

55. The mother of Babylon will rule over her daughter her entire life (Dan 7:4; Jer 50:12).

56. The mother of Babylon will be a state of major decline as the end nears (Jer 50:12).

57. Babylon is considered to be a lion's whelp (Eze 38:13; Jer 51:38).

58. Babylon will have the symbol of the EAGLE and builds her nest in the stars (Dan 7:4 EAGLE WINGS; Isa 14:13-14; Jer 51:53).

59. Babylon turns totally antichrist and is the leading antichrist power at the end (Rev 18:2; Isa 14:4-6).

60. THE KING OF BABYLON is called LUCIFER, the ANTICHRIST (Isa 14:4-6).

61. The King of Babylon will rule from THE GREAT CITY BABYLON (Isa 14:4-6; Rev 17: 18).

62. A world government entity will rise up to rule the world from BABYLON THE CITY (Isa 14; Hab 2, Rev 13, 17, 18).

63. This world entity will be a diverse entity, different than all other ruling bodies of the world (Dan 7:7, 23).

64. This entity will be a TREATY POWER ENTITY (Dan 7:7, 23 DIVERSE).

65. This entity will rise up and use the military power of Babylon the nation to RULE THE WORLD (Isa 14:4-6; Hab 1 & 2, Rev 13, 17).

66. Babylon is a huge producer and exporter of automobiles (Jer 50:37; Rev 18:13).

67. Babylon is a nation of CRAFTSMEN, experts in their trade (Jer 50, 51, Rev 18:22).

68. Babylon is noted for her jewelry of gold and silver (Rev 18:22).

69. Babylon is a huge importer and exporter of spices (Rev 18:13).

70. Babylon is a huge exporter of fine marble products (Rev 18:22).

71. Babylon is noted for her iron and steel production (Rev 18:12).

72. Babylon has huge corporations that have bases around the world (Rev 18:23, implied throughout)

73. Babylon is a nation of higher education and learning (Isa 47:10, implied throughout).

74. Babylon is a nation with a GREAT VOICE in world affairs (Jer 51:55)

75. Babylon is a VIRGIN NATION, untouched by major war (Isa 47:1).

76. Babylon has a vast military machine (Jer 50:36; 51:30; Hab 1 & 2, Rev 13:4).

77. Babylon will be instrumental in the setting up of Israel in the Middle East, and is the home of God's people (Jer 50:47; 51:45).

78. Babylon will have a major enemy to her north (Jer 50:3, 9, 41).

79. Babylon's enemy will lie on the opposite side of the world, over the poles (Isa 13:5)

80. The enemy of Babylon will be a FEDERAL OF NATIONS (Jer 50:9).

81. The enemy of Babylon will be largely Moslem in make-up (Jer 50:17; Rev 17:16; Psalms 83:5-12).

82. The enemy of Babylon will have nuclear missiles capable of reaching Babylon (Jer 50:9, 14,; Rev 18:8, 18).

83. The enemy of Babylon will be noted for her cruelty (Isa 13, 14, Jer 50, 51, Rev 17, 18).

84. The enemy of Babylon will also have a huge aviation military machine (Jer 50:9, 14, Rev 18:8, 18 implied throughout).

85. The enemy of Babylon will come into Babylon unnoticed (Isa 47:11, Jer 50:24; 51:2, 14).

86. Babylon will be filled with her enemies brought in under the guise of peace (Dan 11:21).

87. Babylon will have all of her borders cut off, and there will be no way of

escape (Jer 50:28; 51:32).

88. Babylon will be destroyed by nuclear fire (Implied throughout)

89. Babylon is land vast land with huge cities, towns and villages throughout (Implied throughout).

90. Babylon will have been a huge missionary nation for Jesus Christ (Jer 50:11; 51:7).

91. Babylon would be a home to multitudes of Jews who leave (Jer 50:4-6, 8; 51:6, 45)

92. The people of Babylon would not know their true identity (Jer 50:6, implied throughout).

93. The people of Babylon would think they are God's elect and eternal (Isa 47:7-8, Rev 18:7).

94. The people of Babylon would enjoy the highest standard of living in the world (Rev 18:7).

95. The people of Babylon would grow mad upon their idols (Jer 50:2, 38; Hab 2:18).

96. The people of Babylon would go into deep sins of all kinds (Rev 18:5).

97. The nation Babylon dwells carelessly before the Lord (Isa 47:8).

98. Babylon becomes proud, haughty, and does not consider her end (Isa 47:7-8).

99. Babylon deals in the occult, in sorceries and drugs (Isa 47:9, 12; Rev 18:23)

 

This is really good. I only pasted a few pieces of it.. So read the rest on the webpage..

BTW I didn't read all of it. Its in 5 parts, I read the first age and scanned through the rest. He really seems to go in depth and seems pretty good. So, I'm going to use it for studying.

Edited February 19, 2014 by niki23

[OakWood]

America (or more precisely, a U.S. city) is a compelling candidate for the role of Mystery Babylon, but there is the possibility that it is a state who has not risen to that level of power yet. America is in economic decline, but who is to say that another economically powerful nation may not rise to take centre-stage?

[other one]

 

Rev 18:17-18

 

Doesn't Mystery Babylon have to be on or near the coast?

 

America is surrounded by the ocean

 

 

 

Rev 18:17-18

 

Doesn't Mystery Babylon have to be on or near the coast?

 

America is surrounded by the ocean

 

While I understand what you are saying.....   Thre is Canada on the North and Mexico on the South......   so technically we are not surrounded by the Ocean......         Hawaii is.....    but we're really not even all connected considering Alaska.

 

But according to scripture she is a city, not a country...     also as I said it's not really very easy to put all the descriptions into one single city..     But I do still think the the Vatican and Rome probably fits more of the descriptions than any other single city.

[other one]

We should be careful not to confuse Babylon with the two beasts in all the descriptions. 

[niki23]

 

 

Rev 18:17-18

 

Doesn't Mystery Babylon have to be on or near the coast?

 

America is surrounded by the ocean

 

 

 

Rev 18:17-18

 

Doesn't Mystery Babylon have to be on or near the coast?

 

America is surrounded by the ocean

 

While I understand what you are saying.....   Thre is Canada on the North and Mexico on the South......   so technically we are not surrounded by the Ocean......         Hawaii is.....    but we're really not even all connected considering Alaska.

 

But according to scripture she is a city, not a country...     also as I said it's not really very easy to put all the descriptions into one single city..     But I do still think the the Vatican and Rome probably fits more of the descriptions than any other single city.

 

BABYLON THE GREAT IS A NATION.

When we say Babylon is a nation, we mean to say that she is A LAWFUL NATION, A NATION WITH SPECIFIC BOUNDARIES, A NATION RECOGNIZED IN INTERNATIONAL LAW, A NATION CAPABLE OF ENTERING INTO TREATIES, A NATION WITH A CENTRAL GOVERNMENT, AND A NATION RECOGNIZED BY THE NATIONS OF THE EARTH. That is a nation with a SPECIFIC LAND MASS, DEFINED BOUNDARIES BY LAW, A NATION WITH A PEOPLE THAT GO BY A SPECIFIC NAME, A NATION WITH URBAN AREAS, CITIES, TOWNS AND RURAL DISTRICTS, FARMS, LAKES, FORESTS, ETC. That is what we mean by a nation, and that is what GOD MEANS BY A NATION.

Babylon is referred to in the Scriptures as a nation both directly and indirectly. Often the term KINGDOM and NATION are used interchangeably. We will first of all examine those areas in the Old Testament prophecies that identify BABYLON THE GREAT as a nation, as a SINGULAR ENTITY, not some world wide system. Jeremiah 50:12 is a good place to start:

 

"Your mother shall be sore confounded;

she that bare you shall be ashamed:

BEHOLD, THE HINDER-MOST OF THE NATIONS

shall be a wilderness, a dry land, and a desert."

 

"For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans (New Babylon),

THAT BITTER AND HASTY NATION,

which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces

that are not their's

(Habakkuk 1:6)".

 

Here Isaiah calls Babylon A KINGDOM, in fact, she IS THE QUEEN AMONG ALL THE KINGDOMS/NATIONS OF THE EARTH. She is the leading power of the WHOLE WORLD.  Notice her end: BY FIRE. That is EXACTLY WHAT JEREMIAH SAYS, and that is EXACTLY WHAT REVELATION 17 and 18 say. SHE WILL BE BURNED UTTERLY WITH FIRE. From coast to coast, from sea to shining sea. There is a complete HARMONY OF SCRIPTURE.

 

"Sit thou silent, and get thee into darkness,

O DAUGHTER OF THE CHALDEANS:

for thou shalt no more be called,

THE LADY OF KINGDOMS

 

 

Babylon the Great is also referred to as the DAUGHTER OF BABYLON, and also THE DAUGHTER OF THE CHALDEANS. It is important to note that IT IS AGAIN A SINGULAR DAUGHTER. It is not DAUGHTER(S) OF BABYLON, but the ONE SINGULAR DAUGHTER.  The word for "daughter" is "bath", and it means OFFSPRING OR DESCENDENT of Babylon. LIKE MOTHER, LIKE DAUGHTER. It means that this DAUGHTER OF BABYLON will be OF THE SAME TYPE, OF THE SAME CHARACTERISTICS.

[other one]

Rev 18:21

21 And a strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "Thus will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer.
NASB
 

 

Rev 18:9-10
9 "And the kings of the earth, who committed acts of immorality and lived sensuously with her, will weep and lament over her when they see the smoke of her burning, 10 standing at a distance because of the fear of her torment, saying,' Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city!
NASB
 

 

I do think you are mixing scripture that should not be mixed...

[ARGOSY]

I've got a complicated mind, but recognize that the bible wasn't written for educated men like myself. Its written in simple language for everyone to understand.

Daniel 2: 4 consecutive kingdoms that start with Babylon, the fourth is then Rome

Rome is split into two feet (two sections, Rome and Turkey) which are the dominant empires until Jesus comes again.

Revelation 13, a two -part dominant empire controls the world until Jesus comes again (Rome/Turkey of course)

Revelation 13: the two part empire gives power to another country

What is the other country that will come to power with the help of Europe and Turkey:

The antichrist comes to power in Jerusalem (2 Thess 2)

Jesus warns of false Jewish leaders (Christs) at the end (Matthew 24)

The abomination/antichrist is set up in Judea (Matthew 24)

The beast is a country that had disappeared by the writing of Revelation and yet would re-appear and amaze the world (Rev 17 - was and is not and is to come). Israel had disappeared by that time, and then rose again to amaze the world in 1948.

The beast is a small country (little horn) of Europe (Rome) that then takes over 3 countries (Daniel 7)

The antichrist takes over the beautiful land (Daniel 11) he still there when he hears of reports (armies) from the north and the east and he comes to his end (the antichrist starts and ends in Israel)

The woman is in alliance with this Israel beast. She is the described as the city that rules over the kings of the land. This was written when rome ruled over the kings of the land. The woman is Rome, symbolic of Western Europe.

The symbol of Europe is the woman Europa being carried off by the bull/beast. This means that the EU has been taken over by Middle Eastern interests, and is being carried off to support the creation of a new Middle Eastern superstate. Turkey and Israel will run this superstate, Israel will expand to control the centre of this superstate to dominate two other countries as well.

The ten countries of the new superstate are as follows: Greece (possibly symbolically representing the EU), Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Israel, Iran, Afghanistan. We know this because Revelation 13 describes the beast as resembling Alexander's Empire (the leopard), and incorporating Iraq and Iran.(lion/bear)

And so that my friends is the simplistic and bible-based definition of the main political players during the end-times. Of course these are all open to interpretation, but I really believe its the most obvious interpretation, and with prophecy that's the best we can do.

Edited February 20, 2014 by ARGOSY

[ARGOSY]

Rev 18:17-18

 

Doesn't Mystery Babylon have to be on or near the coast?

 

Rev 18:10

 Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city!

NASB

 

It's kind of difficult to fit all the description of Babylon into one city.....  Vatican city seems to be the closest to the description in my personal view.....

 

It's responsible for the death of saints, it's only 13 miles from the sea,  It has the colors mentioned and the Political side of the Holy See has been involved with just about every country in the world.    And it's on one of the seven hills of the city of Rome.

I agree.

Rome ruled the land when this was written:

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth (actually that means land - reigns over the kings of the land)

I personally see the city of Rome as symbolic of its powerbase, western Europe. That is why it is described as so economically powerful, and its ships trade with the earth. The descriptions of purple and scarlet robes, economic wealth, golden cups, influence in wars etc etc ironically applied to the old Roman empire, the old Papal Europe (until 1798) and also the current Vatican/EU alliance.

[kingdomwitness]

Great Babylon maybe the world government of corruption and crisis