End times prophecy is confusing

[Guest man]

I could not go to the Passion of the Christ.It was too sad.I could not sit there and watch the Lord that I love be beaten.It would be like watching my children or parents being beaten.I would cry at the trailer for it so I did not think I could sit through the movie.

 

 

You didn't miss much.

[Guest]

GOD is not the GOD of confusion. The Scriptures are quite clear, if one keeps it in context, takes it literally, doesn't cherry pick scripture to fit their own ideas, and listens for the Holy Spirit's leading.

[Guest DRS81]

 

Why is that? Why does God have christians pulling their hair out trying to figure it all out?

Well DRS81, this is a good question. However if prophesy is an open subject, think of what it would be like if OSAS, homosexuality or even Barack Obama was listed as a open Topic.

 

The recent confusion was caused by a now locked topic, Prophecy of anti-Christ. When I read it, I was stunned but I didn't answer it right away, I went to scripture. I found the poster to be in great error; 

his post was based in large part by quoting from Daniel on a prophesy that Daniel saw. However even Daniel couldn't figure it out and he prayed and received an answer from Gabriel. So a poster was re-interpreting and misinterpreting what Gabriel already explained starting at Daniel 9:20. By the time I was ready to post, the post was locked. I sent my warning to a moderator who told me the topic was locked. Thinking I was misinterpreted, I sent the message to quite a few moderators and I need to add myself to your topic of pulling "my hair out."  

 

In the final analysis and more directly to your topic, if Christians can't agree on what is stated and has happened in scripture, what do you expect from something that is coded and has not happened? Yet, to me it shows a great concern about the truth and that is good. As long as your focused on scripture it's better than pulling your hair out over the world. Also, there is a triple blessing for those who read Revelations.

 

Oh, I almost forgot in terms of the Christ and Jewish issue that your topic slanted towards think about Israel becoming a state, and God's promises to save the Jews. That is indeed Gospel - good news. 

 

Oak    

 

 

I think it's those preterism and futurism and denominations and yada yada yada..... I do have more gray hairs, and I don't even have kids. lol.

[ProphecyKid]

 

 

Why is that? Why does God have christians pulling their hair out trying to figure it all out?

Well DRS81, this is a good question. However if prophesy is an open subject, think of what it would be like if OSAS, homosexuality or even Barack Obama was listed as a open Topic.

 

The recent confusion was caused by a now locked topic, Prophecy of anti-Christ. When I read it, I was stunned but I didn't answer it right away, I went to scripture. I found the poster to be in great error; 

his post was based in large part by quoting from Daniel on a prophesy that Daniel saw. However even Daniel couldn't figure it out and he prayed and received an answer from Gabriel. So a poster was re-interpreting and misinterpreting what Gabriel already explained starting at Daniel 9:20. By the time I was ready to post, the post was locked. I sent my warning to a moderator who told me the topic was locked. Thinking I was misinterpreted, I sent the message to quite a few moderators and I need to add myself to your topic of pulling "my hair out."  

 

In the final analysis and more directly to your topic, if Christians can't agree on what is stated and has happened in scripture, what do you expect from something that is coded and has not happened? Yet, to me it shows a great concern about the truth and that is good. As long as your focused on scripture it's better than pulling your hair out over the world. Also, there is a triple blessing for those who read Revelations.

 

Oh, I almost forgot in terms of the Christ and Jewish issue that your topic slanted towards think about Israel becoming a state, and God's promises to save the Jews. That is indeed Gospel - good news. 

 

Oak    

 

 

I think it's those preterism and futurism and denominations and yada yada yada..... I do have more gray hairs, and I don't even have kids. lol.

 

 

Agreed

[Guest DRS81]

GOD is not the GOD of confusion. The Scriptures are quite clear, if one keeps it in context, takes it literally, doesn't cherry pick scripture to fit their own ideas, and listens for the Holy Spirit's leading.

 

That's right, MAN is the God of confusion, like the time when you said 1 Thess 5:9 & Rev 3:10 are rapture scriptures when they're not. These scriptures are not talking about rapture. 1 Thess 5:9 is talking about the wrath that is given to nonbelievers for their everyday unrepentance and not great tribulation wrath, and Rev 3:10 is talking about the moving and location of the church. Christ is protecting the church and the believers from affliction and distress, moving to another location does not mean rapture here...post 12

From Parker1: 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10 also points to the removal of the church by rapture at the time of GOD’s future wrath.

 

third significant passage, where John records the words of Christ to the church at Philadelphia, is found in Revelation 3:10. Christ promises “Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.” Protection is promised to keep them from (ek) the hour of trial. Some of you will debate the meaning of the Greek word “ek” as used here. You may feel that the use of the word indicates that the church will be protected through the time of tribulation. However, it should be observed that the text does not say that we will be kept from trials but from the “hour of trial.” This “hour of trial” refers to the tribulation period and is a promise to keep the church from the period of trial (or testing), which requires the actual removal from the time period itself and not preservation through it. This is accomplished by the Rapture at the beginning of the tribulation."

 

 

 

 

 

...or the time someone on here said Rev 4:1 is rapture scripture, but it's not. It's a vision given to John about the great tribulation.

[Guest man]

He wanted the Jewish Messiah dead and he did everything he could to make that happen. Why would he have Judas betray Jesus and get him arrested? He thought that if the Messiah was killed then he would have foiled God's plan, but it was God's plan all the time to sacrifice his own son.

Satan has since then  tried to fool people into not accepting Jesus, even going so far as to create the false religion of Islam to deny Jesus' sacrifice and subsequent resurrection, and to intimidate Christians (and anybody else whilst he's at it) into converting to Islam.

He has also tried everything he can to destroy the Jews, culminating in the Nazi holocaust (the Final Solution). If he wipes out the bloodline of the Jews then they can't return to Jerusalem and set up the Holy temple in preparation for Jesus' return. God knows who the descendants of David are, even if the Jews themselves don't.

Of course, Satan failed here too because Israel has been reformed, so now he is trying to destroy Israel and persecute any last remaining Jews who are not in Israel. Hence the growing rise in antisemitism in Europe and the rest of the World.

He will have his last chance at capturing as many souls as he can when he rules from Jerusalem during the Tribulation, but he knows the time is short because he will only have seven years in which to do this. When he goes to his fate he wants to bring down as many as possible and take them with him.

 

 

How would Satan know he only has 7 years?

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, bopeep.

 

Lets face it.We are going to get to heaven no matter what the outcome.Isn't that the most important?Why fuss over the details?

 

Because "Heaven" is not what we are to anticipate! We are to anticipate the RESURRECTION of our bodies and the soon return of haMashiach ben Daviyd - the Messiah son of David! We are to anticipate His reign over this earth, both in the last 1,000 years of this age and in the age to come!

 

Ever hear the phrase "the devil is in the detail?" It means that some overlooked facts hidden in the details can come back to bite you later on. If one doesn't focus on the smallest details of prophecy, one is bound to go astray in one's interpretation of prophecy. They may result in nothing; HOWEVER, it is also possible that they can mean life or death to the interpreter of prophecy! This is potentially a deal-breaker!

 

As I've said elsewhere, it is IMPORTANT to understand that "heaven" simply means "the sky." Whatever is in view when one looks up is "the sky." During the daylight hours, that includes the blue sky that we see, the sun, and the clouds in that blue sky, i.e., the Earth's atmosphere as well as our day-star. During the night, "the sky" also includes what we can see of space, the moon, the stars, and the planets, including other moons, comets, and asteroids. Generally speaking, most of what we see is Earth's atmosphere and the forces that exist there which we call "weather."

 

If anything, what one usually describes as "Heaven," namely the "New Jerusalem," will come HERE to THIS planet (once the planet has been re-created after the coming Fire).

 

However, there's MUCH to look forward to when Yeshua` returns and sets up His earthly Kingdom! Many Christians think of the Millennium (Greek: chilia etee = "a-thousand years") as a "time of world-wide peace and prosperity," and it WILL be ... for God's people, both the Jews and the grafted-in Gentiles, but not necessarily for the REST of the world's population! For them, it will be a time when they live under the empire of the King of Kings and Master of Masters, who for them will be a UNYIELDING DICTATOR.

 

Read Psalm 2:1-12 (in a good translation that you feel comfortable reading; I prefer the KJV because I grew up with it and understand it) and 1 Corinthians 15:20-28. If you follow the context carefully in both, you will find that there will be significant conflict during the 1,000 years when Yeshua` reigns in this age! He will be subduing His enemies! One by one, He will be putting them under His feet until the only thing left to defeat will be death itself! Psalm 2 reads like an interrupted U.N. meeting! God interrupts their meeting LAUGHING AT THEM! He warns them to knuckle under His Messiah or face the consequences!

 

God bless you in your studies!

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, DRS81.

 

Why is that? Why does God have christians pulling their hair out trying to figure it all out?

 

It wasn't meant to be that way, and if we still understood our Hebrew roots, it wouldn't be that way.

 

The Bible is a Hebrew book written to the Hebrews (both Jews and non-Jewish Isra'el) and needs to be interpreted that way. Even the New Testament was written by Hebrews to Hebrews about the Hebrew Yeshua whom they called "haMashiach" or "the Messiah," "the Christ" in Anglicized Greek. Today, we use the term "Jewish" to refer to anyone born into the family of Jacob (Israel), although technically, a Jew (Y'hudiy) is just one individual from the tribe of Judah (Y'hudah), one of the twelve sons of Jacob.

 

However, if one is a Gentile (a non-Hebrew person), he has a natural disadvantage to understanding the Scriptures. If those born into God's family through the Spirit are not taught their heritage, they will come to wrong conclusions about God's Word, not realizing why the Bible says certain things that do not make sense to someone who doesn't understand the cultural context and heritage.

 

Now, prophecy is a natural mystery because we don't know our future at all without it, and prophecy is a "condensed version" of what our future holds. Such information was given to us to help us trust God. Knowing that God knew what was going to happen in the future should help us to trust that He has everything in control. Knowing that God loves us - each of us individually as well as all of us as a group - helps us to trust that He has our best interest in mind and will do what is good and right for us (in HIS timing, of course). With this knowledge and faith, we can be little children again, resting in His arms, and anticipate "Christmas coming," so to speak! We can anticipate all the good things that the prophecies in God's Word say are coming for those who love God and who are His children.

 

What He does NOT want us to do is to obsess about it all to the point where we drive ourselves to ulcers! We are not to have this information to generate a sense of dread and worry, and it is WRONG for a Christian or a believer to SCARE people about the future that God's Word says is SECURE for those who love Him! We may expect tribulation and persecution to strengthen us and help us to grow, but we need to understand that God's promise is...

 

"I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee!" (Hebrews 13:5b)

 

Many people obsess about how their dead are buried. Some think that their loved ones need to be buried with their bodies intact or with all their internal organs; thus, their conviction is against being an organ donor. However, what we need to teach them is that God's work of "resurrection" is a CREATIVE ACT! He's not just bringing our dead bodies back to life! In many cases, He must first REBUILD our bodies to raise them back to life! People who have been dead for thousands of years, for instance, may not even have much of their skeletal remains left!

 

Ours is a message of HOPE and that is the ARCHAIC meaning of "hope," by the way! "Hope" used to mean "ASSURANCE" or "CONFIDENCE," as in the "Blessed Hope." It's not just an "I hope so" belief; it's an "I KNOW so" belief!

 

So, all that to say this: The study of prophecy and how the various prophecies dovetail together should be a FUN undertaking, not a hopeless chore, or an impossible drudgery. It's DOABLE, but it will require that you gain an understanding in some of the terminology (avoiding, if possible, the "labeling" of events, which can lead to prophecy/eschatology/theology taking precedence over God's Word). Take courage, and enjoy the ride!

[OakWood]

 

He wanted the Jewish Messiah dead and he did everything he could to make that happen. Why would he have Judas betray Jesus and get him arrested? He thought that if the Messiah was killed then he would have foiled God's plan, but it was God's plan all the time to sacrifice his own son.

Satan has since then  tried to fool people into not accepting Jesus, even going so far as to create the false religion of Islam to deny Jesus' sacrifice and subsequent resurrection, and to intimidate Christians (and anybody else whilst he's at it) into converting to Islam.

He has also tried everything he can to destroy the Jews, culminating in the Nazi holocaust (the Final Solution). If he wipes out the bloodline of the Jews then they can't return to Jerusalem and set up the Holy temple in preparation for Jesus' return. God knows who the descendants of David are, even if the Jews themselves don't.

Of course, Satan failed here too because Israel has been reformed, so now he is trying to destroy Israel and persecute any last remaining Jews who are not in Israel. Hence the growing rise in antisemitism in Europe and the rest of the World.

He will have his last chance at capturing as many souls as he can when he rules from Jerusalem during the Tribulation, but he knows the time is short because he will only have seven years in which to do this. When he goes to his fate he wants to bring down as many as possible and take them with him.

 

 

How would Satan know he only has 7 years?

 

 

Unless he has never read the Bible or read this forum or ever heard any other Christian on the planet mention the Tribulation, then I guess that he knows that he has only seven years!

[GlidingWings]

 

Why is that? Why does God have christians pulling their hair out trying to figure it all out?

 

Well firstly it is not really God's fault, it is man's fault. And also if you believe that the devil is a sly old fox, then he would have his preachers pretending to be Christians preaching a lot of falsehood concerning prophecy and confusing the issue making it hard for the person who really wants to understand the truth to understand.

 

But even before that, there is a special reason why the book of revelation was written that way. Remember John was on the Isle of Patmos when he got these visions and wrote what he saw and had to give it to the Romans for request they send it out for him. Now if John had actually named names, their name would have been called and they most likely would have destroyed the writings. But to them when they see all these things about beasts and dragons, they laughed and mocked it and thought John had gone mad, so they gladly sent it out.  

 

 

 

 

Why is that? Why does God have christians pulling their hair out trying to figure it all out?

 

Well firstly it is not really God's fault, it is man's fault. And also if you believe that the devil is a sly old fox, then he would have his preachers pretending to be Christians preaching a lot of falsehood concerning prophecy and confusing the issue making it hard for the person who really wants to understand the truth to understand.

 

But even before that, there is a special reason why the book of revelation was written that way. Remember John was on the Isle of Patmos when he got these visions and wrote what he saw and had to give it to the Romans for request they send it out for him. Now if John had actually named names, their name would have been called and they most likely would have destroyed the writings. But to them when they see all these things about beasts and dragons, they laughed and mocked it and thought John had gone mad, so they gladly sent it out.  

 

 

You know, P.K., I have never heard John's reasons for writing Revelation the way he did put in that way.  It's makes perfect sense!  You're right, the Romans would definitely have stopped his writings right there if they thought they were prophetic...... or even lucid.   

 

 

I don’t think the writings of John directly went into the hands of the Romans. One reason is because the zealous Jews and the Romans wanted to disprove Jesus validity. At least in those days it was so much true. Jesus though was taken on census in the line of Joesph some of Jacob line of David line of Abraham. This all can be proof of record.

Since God made sure only those men of God would be added to biblical scripture God also made sure whose hands took forth the word and added it into the the Bible or Bible collection of books. Holy as in meaning dedicated to God in instrument of worship in temple in righteousness and purity toward God is Holy that is Bible of books.

So I believe by the Divine power of God Johns letters was taken by those men of God whom God led them by His spirit to recover the book of Revelation John of Patmos. Because if Romans and especially its authority in those days got a hold of these writings they would have torn up these letters declaring Jesus of Nazareth who died on the Roman cross was only a man.

Let us take away His popular legend. If only Rome could have done this. . Through the power of God the word was not taught by them. They did not get their hands on this till the Word was submitted and finally added to Jude. I believe this cause God would not prevent this from happening by some faulty circumstance of things. But I do believe once the Romans did see these writings it made absolutely no sense to them. Ironically in the Church of Rome of today it still does not mean anything.

It is believed the Dead Sea scrolls were hidden by Early believers who did not want Rome or any empire to destroy the Holy writing of God. They believed so they had hid them in caves.

So many decades ago a Shepard was by the Dead Sea and took a stone to throw it in the cave. It made a sound like a shatter that got him to go inside and look. Yet the shepherd seen writing in a language he did not understand. . The Shepard sold them to those who know how to interpret Ancient writings. Of course these scrolls turned out to be the Old Testament writings of every book except Esther wasn't to be recovered. But the help of these ancient sea scrolls compared to the writings on scrolls they compared them all to be very accurate writings in comparison.

The Dead Sea scrolls therefore hold the validity of the Bible we have now as for the New Testament they were not buried or hidden. It's perhaps because it circulated all over the regions. There was no way for any empire to rid of the New Testament. For all the attempts to destroy God’s word the name of Jesus with all persecutions it never succeeded. We see more churches all over the world than any other religion made up of religious establishments of their own God beliefs and principles. .

It's like the Hebrews in Egypt the more they were persecuted the more they multiplied. The more God and His people and Jesus was to be wiped out the stronger the outcome Christians have been able to achieve. This is an endeavor by man who believes in God? Surely not. But rather this endeavor is by God to make all things possible.