Evolution as taught in Colleges and Universities

[MrsRational]

 

Evolution and cosmology and other "disciplines" work in reverse. Observations are made and a model is devised to explain them. No one claims that evolution is a random process, however.

I think it is perfectly acceptable to state that there was an Uncaused First Cause and this Creator was behind the formation of the first biological molecules... Life. But I have no proof or evidence to offer. It is a statement of faith.

Have a blessed Chritmas!

 

"Evolution and cosmology and other "disciplines" work in reverse."

 

Well that's not Science or more specifically, Empirical/Operational Science.  More in the realm of Forensic and Historical Science.

 

"this Creator was behind the formation of the first biological molecules"

 

Lets save this for another time

 

 

"But I have no proof or evidence to offer. It is a statement of faith."

 

Yes, but it's not Blind Faith.  Again...Back to the 2 Choices.  Along with Whole Counsel of GOD Including all 1800 or so Prophecies and Jesus Christ in the Flesh.  Pretty Powerful IMHO.

 

Merry Christmas to you and yours sir

 

 

For a person who claims to love biology, physics and genetics you display little knowledge of their foundations.

 

- An atom contains a nucleus, electrons, protons and neutrons. Electrons are negatively charged, protons are positively charged.

- A molecule is two atoms that are chemically bound together.

 

Since the theory of evolution is used in a variety of fields and has predictive capability, it goes a bit beyond a masquerade. I have personally created strains of bacteria and bred several fruit fly variations based on the theory of evolution. No reputable biologist in the world denies evolution is a reality.

 

You also fail to understand the scientific method: 

 

Start with a question

Conduct Research

Formulate a hypothesis

Test Your Hypothesis via experimentation

Analyze data and draw your conclusions

Publish your results

[gray wolf]

We're getting nowhere. Like mother used to tell me, if you can't say something nice about someone....

[gray wolf]

Evolution and cosmology and other "disciplines" work in reverse. Observations are made and a model is devised to explain them. No one claims that evolution is a random process, however.

I think it is perfectly acceptable to state that there was an Uncaused First Cause and this Creator was behind the formation of the first biological molecules... Life. But I have no proof or evidence to offer. It is a statement of faith.

Have a blessed Chritmas!

"Evolution and cosmology and other "disciplines" work in reverse."

Well that's not Science or more specifically, Empirical/Operational Science. More in the realm of Forensic and Historical Science.

"this Creator was behind the formation of the first biological molecules"

Lets save this for another time

"But I have no proof or evidence to offer. It is a statement of faith."

Yes, but it's not Blind Faith. Again...Back to the 2 Choices. Along with Whole Counsel of GOD Including all 1800 or so Prophecies and Jesus Christ in the Flesh. Pretty Powerful IMHO.

Merry Christmas to you and yours sir

Not blind faith by any means.

[Enoch2021]

 

 

Evolution and cosmology and other "disciplines" work in reverse. Observations are made and a model is devised to explain them. No one claims that evolution is a random process, however.

I think it is perfectly acceptable to state that there was an Uncaused First Cause and this Creator was behind the formation of the first biological molecules... Life. But I have no proof or evidence to offer. It is a statement of faith.

Have a blessed Chritmas!

 

"Evolution and cosmology and other "disciplines" work in reverse."

 

Well that's not Science or more specifically, Empirical/Operational Science.  More in the realm of Forensic and Historical Science.

 

"this Creator was behind the formation of the first biological molecules"

 

Lets save this for another time

 

 

"But I have no proof or evidence to offer. It is a statement of faith."

 

Yes, but it's not Blind Faith.  Again...Back to the 2 Choices.  Along with Whole Counsel of GOD Including all 1800 or so Prophecies and Jesus Christ in the Flesh.  Pretty Powerful IMHO.

 

Merry Christmas to you and yours sir

 

 

For a person who claims to love biology, physics and genetics you display little knowledge of their foundations.

 

- An atom contains a nucleus, electrons, protons and neutrons. Electrons are negatively charged, protons are positively charged.

- A molecule is two atoms that are chemically bound together.

 

Since the theory of evolution is used in a variety of fields and has predictive capability, it goes a bit beyond a masquerade. I have personally created strains of bacteria and bred several fruit fly variations based on the theory of evolution. No reputable biologist in the world denies evolution is a reality.

 

You also fail to understand the scientific method: 

 

Start with a question

Conduct Research

Formulate a hypothesis

Test Your Hypothesis via experimentation

Analyze data and draw your conclusions

Publish your results

 

 

"For a person who claims to love biology, physics and genetics you display little knowledge of their foundations."

 

Interesting....how so?

 

"An atom contains...." "A molecule is...."

 

Thank You. You failed to mention Sub-Atomic Particles?....or, were you just being gracious in lieu of my (In Your Opinion)...suspect scientific acumen?

 

"Since the theory of evolution is used in a variety of fields"

 

Which fields specifically?.... and can you provide one example of "used" from each field?

 

"predictive capability"

 

For instance?

 

"Since the theory of evolution"

 

Can you please define the theory of evolution? ....this may clear up some confusion.  Is it this?....

 

‘General Theory of Evolution’, defined by the evolutionist Kerkut as ‘the theory that all the living forms in the world have arisen from a single source which itself came from an inorganic form.’

Kerkut, G.A., Implications of Evolution, Pergamon, Oxford, UK, p. 157, 1960.

 

"I have personally created strains of bacteria"

 

Did you start out with bacteria?  When you concluded, were they still bacteria?  If so, the changes that you observed are specifically termed "Genetic Variation" and they are "within Kind"....No New Information was added.  It's an example of "Micro" evolution....unfortunate term and is the genesis of much confusion IMHO.

 

"several fruit fly variations"

 

Are they still fruit fly's?  See above bacteria scenario.

 

"No reputable biologist in the world denies evolution is a reality."

 

That would depend on the definition of evolution.

 

"You also fail to understand the scientific method: step one: Start with a question"

 

But behind that question or the genesis of the question there must be an OBSERVATION...so as to "Start with a question," No?  Which was my whole point from the previous post.

[Enoch2021]

We're getting nowhere. Like mother used to tell me, if you can't say something nice about someone....

 

"We're getting nowhere"

 

Where would you like to go?  Usually when people get easily frustrated it's often a result of lacking support for assertions.

 

"if you can't say something nice about someone...."

 

Why would you say something other than "Nice About" me...and imply there is nothing nice?  You don't even know me   It usually takes evolutionists 2-3 days to really dislike me for no reason.  From the substance of my posts, I have surely not proffered anything insulting, personally or otherwise.  I have offered my thoughts on various subjects and either CITED support for them or offered a measured reasoned rebuttal (IMHO).

 

Just searching for the TRUTH and trying to be a Berean with all I hear and read.  Nothing personal.

[gray wolf]

I was not talking about you.

[Enoch2021]

I was not talking about you.

 

My mistake

[Guest]

The Word

 

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

 

Of God

 

By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. Psalms 33:6

 

~

 

- A molecule is two atoms that are chemically bound together.

 

 

Beloved

 

A Molecule Is The Smallest Particle Of A Substance That Retains The Chemical And Physical Properties Of That Substance And Is Composed Of Two Or More Atoms In A Chemical Bond (Covalent, Polar Covalent, And Ionic Bonds)

 

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11

 

The Deeper We Go

 

He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end. Ecclesiastes 3:11

 

The Truer Jesus Becomes

 

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Colossians 1:16-17

 

~

 

Since the theory of evolution is used in a variety of fields and has predictive capability, it goes a bit beyond a masquerade. I have personally created strains of bacteria and bred several fruit fly variations based on the theory of evolution. No reputable biologist in the world denies evolution is a reality.

 

You also fail to understand the scientific method: 

 

Start with a question

Conduct Research

Formulate a hypothesis

Test Your Hypothesis via experimentation

Analyze data and draw your conclusions

Publish your results

 

 

The Question: Does Evolution Today Really Change Bacteria Into Turnips

 

And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the third day. Genesis 1:11-13

 

And Fruit Flies Into Winged Scientists

 

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7

 

And Redeem

 

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Matthew 16:26-27

 

The Souls Of Sinner Men

 

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 1 Peter 1:18-20

 

By Increasing The Faith Of The Gullible And The Hopeless?

 

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. Hebrews 3:12

 

~

 

Observing

 

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2 Timothy 4:3-4

 

Measuring

 

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:19-20

 

Forming A Hypothesis

 

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: 1 Timothy 6:20

 

Drawing

 

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

 

My Conclusion 

 

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

 

And Publishing The Results

 

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Romans 1:21-22

 

~

 

Believe

 

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:10-12

 

And Be Blessed

 

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. Revelation 21:1-3

 

Beloved

 

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. Revelation 21:4-5

 

Love, Joe

[MrsRational]

"For a person who claims to love biology, physics and genetics you display little knowledge of their foundations."

 

Interesting....how so?

 

Um...I don't know how to put it any simpler? You lack even basic knowledge of the aforementioned subjects. 

 

"An atom contains...." "A molecule is...."

 

Thank You. You failed to mention Sub-Atomic Particles?....or, were you just being gracious in lieu of my (In Your Opinion)...suspect scientific acumen?

I didn't "fail" to mention them...The nucleus and proton ARE sub-atomic particles. See my answer to the above question.

 

"Since the theory of evolution is used in a variety of fields"

 

Which fields specifically?.... and can you provide one example of "used" from each field?

 

(I put a wide number of fields under these heading for sake of brevity)

 

- Medical research 

- Wildlife farming and management

- Statistics

- Engineering

 

"predictive capability"

 

For instance?

Since you already deny the reality of evolution, you certainly will not accept any of the predictions based on it.

 

"Since the theory of evolution"

 

Can you please define the theory of evolution? ....this may clear up some confusion.  Is it this?....

‘General Theory of Evolution’, defined by the evolutionist Kerkut as ‘the theory that all the living forms in the world have arisen from a single source which itself came from an inorganic form.’

Kerkut, G.A., Implications of Evolution, Pergamon, Oxford, UK, p. 157, 1960.

 

If you have even a high school level of understanding on the subject you would know the answer to this. Over time organisms will change according to environmental pressures.

 

"I have personally created strains of bacteria"

 

Did you start out with bacteria?  When you concluded, were they still bacteria?  If so, the changes that you observed are specifically termed "Genetic Variation" and they are "within Kind"....No New Information was added.  It's an example of "Micro" evolution....unfortunate term and is the genesis of much confusion IMHO.

 

There is no such thing as a "kind" and the word has no meaning whatsoever in biology. Creationists use this word because evolution on smaller scales have been documented and can no longer be denied. Creationists therefore decided to claim animals can change as long as they don't go past some undefined magic barrier. 

 

So you tell me...what exactly is a "kind"?

 

"several fruit fly variations"

 

Are they still fruit fly's?  See above bacteria scenario.

 See my above answer.

 

"No reputable biologist in the world denies evolution is a reality."

 

That would depend on the definition of evolution.

There is only one theory of evolution. While there might be discussions and debates about the exact mechanization in which evolution occurs, there are no reputable biologists on earth who denies the theory.

 

"You also fail to understand the scientific method: step one: Start with a question"

 

But behind that question or the genesis of the question there must be an OBSERVATION...so as to "Start with a question," No?  Which was my whole point from the previous post.

Speciation in plants and animals have been observed and documented.

 

The Faeroe Island house mouse (And in only 250 years!) and the Goatsbeard flower are two that jump from memory, (and a Google confirmation). We have also observed smaller changes in moths and insects that were isolated from their parent gene pool.

Edited December 26, 2013 by MsRational

[Enoch2021]

 

"For a person who claims to love biology, physics and genetics you display little knowledge of their foundations."

 

Interesting....how so?

 

Um...I don't know how to put it any simpler? You lack even basic knowledge of the aforementioned subjects. 

 

"An atom contains...." "A molecule is...."

 

Thank You. You failed to mention Sub-Atomic Particles?....or, were you just being gracious in lieu of my (In Your Opinion)...suspect scientific acumen?

I didn't "fail" to mention them...The nucleus and proton ARE sub-atomic particles. See my answer to the above question.

 

"Since the theory of evolution is used in a variety of fields"

 

Which fields specifically?.... and can you provide one example of "used" from each field?

 

(I put a wide number of fields under these heading for sake of brevity)

 

- Medical research 

- Wildlife farming and management

- Statistics

- Engineering

 

"predictive capability"

 

For instance?

Since you already deny the reality of evolution, you certainly will not accept any of the predictions based on it.

 

"Since the theory of evolution"

 

Can you please define the theory of evolution? ....this may clear up some confusion.  Is it this?....

‘General Theory of Evolution’, defined by the evolutionist Kerkut as ‘the theory that all the living forms in the world have arisen from a single source which itself came from an inorganic form.’

Kerkut, G.A., Implications of Evolution, Pergamon, Oxford, UK, p. 157, 1960.

 

If you have even a high school level of understanding on the subject you would know the answer to this. Over time organisms will change according to environmental pressures.

 

"I have personally created strains of bacteria"

 

Did you start out with bacteria?  When you concluded, were they still bacteria?  If so, the changes that you observed are specifically termed "Genetic Variation" and they are "within Kind"....No New Information was added.  It's an example of "Micro" evolution....unfortunate term and is the genesis of much confusion IMHO.

 

There is no such thing as a "kind" and the word has no meaning whatsoever in biology. Creationists use this word because evolution on smaller scales have been documented and can no longer be denied. Creationists therefore decided to claim animals can change as long as they don't go past some undefined magic barrier. 

 

So you tell me...what exactly is a "kind"?

 

"several fruit fly variations"

 

Are they still fruit fly's?  See above bacteria scenario.

 See my above answer.

 

"No reputable biologist in the world denies evolution is a reality."

 

That would depend on the definition of evolution.

There is only one theory of evolution. While there might be discussions and debates about the exact mechanization in which evolution occurs, there are no reputable biologists on earth who denies the theory.

 

"You also fail to understand the scientific method: step one: Start with a question"

 

But behind that question or the genesis of the question there must be an OBSERVATION...so as to "Start with a question," No?  Which was my whole point from the previous post.

Speciation in plants and animals have been observed and documented.

 

The Faeroe Island house mouse (And in only 250 years!) and the Goatsbeard flower are two that jump from memory, (and a Google confirmation). We have also observed smaller changes in moths and insects that were isolated from their parent gene pool.

 

 

 

"Um...I don't know how to put it any simpler? You lack even basic knowledge of the aforementioned subjects."

 

That's a Generalized Unsupported Conjecture.  I may just surprise you

 

"I didn't "fail" to mention them...The nucleus and proton ARE sub-atomic particles. See my answer to the above question."

 

Very well, I mis-termed specifically what I was alluding to...I am fallible   I should have said other Elementary Particles (Fermions, Quarks, Leptons, Bosons)

 

"(I put a wide number of fields under these heading for sake of brevity)"

- Medical research

- Wildlife farming and management

- Statistics

- Engineering"

 

Those are just Terms/Titles, I thought I asked for examples with each....?  Please, give one for Medical Research...for Brevity.

 

"If you have even a high school level of understanding on the subject you would know the answer to this. Over time organisms will change according to environmental pressures."

 

A little condescending and presumptuous don't you think?  So it's just organisms change...over time? Like a bacteria changing into something other than a bacteria?  Is this mainly through Natural Selection or other mechanisms?  So are evolutionists moving away from abiogenesis?  It's funny, all these "Changes" seem to be a LOSS of Information...How do you get New Structures, Organs, and Organisms by losing Information?

 

"There is no such thing as a "kind" and the word has no meaning whatsoever in biology."

 

Of course not, the Taxonomic Classification System is a Man-Made Construct developed 6000 years after GOD established "KIND".  And since evolutionists attempt to explain away GOD with these classifications with "so-called" PROOFS, they use the classifications especially "Species/Speciation" (more on this below).  Shouldn't the measuring stick, to disprove or explain away GOD, be HIS Standard and not one contrived by Man that changes like the weather?  This is tantamount to accusing Thomas Jefferson of Tax Evasion when income tax wasn't instituted until 1913.

 

"Creationists use this word because evolution on smaller scales have been documented and can no longer be denied. Creationists therefore decided to claim animals can change as long as they don't go past some undefined magic barrier. So you tell me...what exactly is a "kind"?"

 

Be sure WHAT your definition of evolution is.  Because to discredit the Bible, you have to show change from Family Taxonomic Group or higher. To be clear....

Biblical "Kind" was coined 6000 years before the term "Species" and are two TOTALLY DIFFERENT TERMS.

Biblical "Kind"-- is defined from (IMHO):  (1 Corinthians 15:39) "All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds."

Clearly this most closely resembles the Family Group, No?  Doesn't appear to be MAGIC.

 

"Species"-- A fundamental category of taxonomic classification, ranking below a genus or subgenus and consisting of related organisms capable of interbreeding. How many current definitions are there and how many changes have occurred with this definition; say, the past 50 years?

This equation is a Observable, Measurable, Repeatable, and is a Scientific FACT:

 

1. "Micro"-evolution:  Biblical "KIND"

Natural Selection + Genetic Variation =  Biblical "Kind". This is (Humans: Tall/Short, Green Eyes/Blue Eyes, Dark Skin/Light Skin, Puerto Rican/ Greenland Eskimo ... Dogs: Big/Small, Short hair/Long hair, Boxer/Collie) THEY'RE STILL DOGS and HUMANS.

This Equation is an Epic Fairytale with NO PROOF (ZERO).

2. "Macro"- evolution: "Bacteria to Boy Scout"....

Natural Selection + Random Mutations + Billions of years =  darwinian evolution

If evolution is TRUE, then please show 1 PROOF of this. You must show a Family Taxonomic Group or higher change to prove evolution and discredit the Biblical Account.

And please, don't say because #1 is True then Ipso Facto #2 is True.  These two are in completely different Universes and the only similarity... is that each equation starts with a "Natural Selection"....which by the way, was first Identified and Documented 27 years before origin of species by Edward Blyth (Creationist).

 

It appears evolutionists are using the ole "Bait and Switch" technique.  Taking "Micro"- evolution" which is Natural Selection and Genetic Variation and "Grandfathering" these into darwinian evolution or in an attempt to feign credulity with the former without explaining the latter.  There is a very significant distinction. “Micro"-evolution, by definition, is the same thing as genetic variation (the shuffling of pre-existing genetic information). It is both observable and observed, measurable and measured, repeatable and repeated—in short, it has been scientifically verified as a natural phenomenon. However, in every single case, the organism that has undergone the variation is the SAME KIND OF ORGANISM!

 

“Macro"-evolution” or (Bacteria to Boy Scout) on the other hand, has not been verified as a natural phenomenon. It has not been observed, measured, or repeated. No natural mechanism has successfully been put forth as the means by which new and more complex genetic information is generated so as to result in unequivocally new traits, organs, and organisms. “Macro"-evolution is an entirely contrived notion, extrapolated, with no empirical basis, from “Micro"-evolution.

The distinction is both precise and significant. To blur the distinction is to show contempt for empirical science and mix fact with fantasy.

 

"there are no reputable biologists on earth who denies the theory."

 

‘We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity; we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical or cellular system, only a variety of wishful speculations.’

Harold, Franklin M. (evolutionist) Prof. Emeritus Biochemistry, Colorado State University The way of the cell: molecules, organisms and the order of life, Oxford University Press, New York, 2001, p. 205.

 

others:

Raymond G. Bohlin PhD Molecular and Cell Biology

Kenneth B Cumming PhD Biology

Carl B. Fliermans PhD Microbiology

Authur Jones PhD Biology

Ariel A Roth PhD Biology

Timothy G Standish PhD Biology

Henry Zuill PhD Biology

 

Just a few....I'd imagine these scholars are all disreputable?

 

"Speciation in plants and animals have been observed and documented."

 

Speciation is not in question, See response above.

 

"changes in moths"

 

These wouldn't happen to be Peppered Moths?