Tough Questions

[Budman]

God doesn't exist

It must be great to know everthing there is to know about everything. To have such complete knowledge that you can make that statement.

Noahs arc could never have existed

Please enlighten us as to how you are so sure of this, O omniscient one.

warm regards

-bud

PS: It's Noah's Ark

[apothanein kerdos]

It's impossible to make an absolute statement "God doesn't exist". There isn't enough proof to discredit the theory in God. However there is enough proof for one to say, "I believe there is a God". Yet to simply say, "He does not exist" is to say, "There is no higher being or power" which means that you know everything about the universe and all that exist with in it...thus making you by definition a god and contradicting your original point.

[UndecidedFrog]

Dear sandok,

This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian.

I must agree with SuperJew in that you cannot possibly make sense by stating categorically that god (any god) does not exist. In order to make such a statement and having it be true, you would need to know everything to make sure that no god (any god) exists. (BTW, if you did know everything, you yourself could consider yourself to be a god)

More truthful are statements as follows:

1) I do not believe that any god/s exist.

2) I am not convinced that there are any god/s.

3) From my perspective, there is not enough evidence to convince me that the probability of any god's existence is significant.

Similarly, someone categorically stating that "God exists" is also non-sensical, since it cannot be objectively proven. Remember, if it could be objectively proven, there would be no unbelievers, or believers of other gods.

More truthful are statements as follows:

1) I believe that god exists.

2) I am convinced that there is a god.

3) From my perspective, there is subjective evidence to convince me that the probability of god's existence is significant.

Just a thought to help clarify.

Regards,

UndecidedFrog

[Botz]

Hi Undecided frog.

I agree with what you wrote concerning this...

I must agree with SuperJew in that you cannot possibly make sense by stating categorically that god (any god) does not exist. In order to make such a statement and having it be true, you would need to know everything to make sure that no god (any god) exists. (BTW, if you did know everything, you yourself could consider yourself to be a god)

More truthful are statements as follows:

1) I do not believe that any god/s exist.

2) I am not convinced that there are any god/s.

3) From my perspective, there is not enough evidence to convince me that the probability of any god's existence is significant.

I do not agree with you next statement however logical it seems at first.

Similarly, someone categorically stating that "God exists" is also non-sensical, since it cannot be objectively proven. Remember, if it could be objectively proven, there would be no unbelievers, or believers of other gods.

More truthful are statements as follows:

1) I believe that god exists.

2) I am convinced that there is a god.

3) From my perspective, there is subjective evidence to convince me that the probability of god's existence is significant.

Just a thought to help clarify.

When a person is truely converted it is not just an assenting to a set of beliefs or beginning to take on the trappings of what may be described as a 'religious life'...it is actually having made contact with the Living G-d...so that this new dimension to life is based 100% on an actual personal encounter that was initiated by faith through the grace of G-d.

This is the frustrating thing for many people who live in a state of unbelief to understand...and to them the Christian who is totally confident in G-d exhibits all the hallmarks of arrogance and ignorance that make them such an easy target...especially as it is an unsubstantiated subjective experience...(for which I might add there is a historical biblical context).

So it may seem non-sensical or untrue to you when a Christian declares that he knows G-d personally...but in actual fact it is the truth....and it is based on relationship through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit...and therefore for a Christian to declare any of the 3 other methods of describing his experience that you listed would in actual fact be slightly removed from the truth.

The Bible puts it this way.

John 17:3 " And this is life eternal, that they might know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent".

Talking of the Holy Spirit that will come and indwell a person...and reveal G-d to them Jesus says to the disciples before his death....

John 16:7 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter (Holy Spirit) will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".

This carries on from what He was saying earlier to His disciples.

John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you".

Verse 17 even addesses people who are as yet ignorant of the existance of G-d and who cannot get a handle on this G-d who seems so elusive. When G-d is actually dwelling within...you cannot help but know it!

Hope you are keeping well. Botz.

[Nebuchadnezza10]

Any Christian who says he/she has all of the answers are only fooling themselves. I admit that I do not have answers for the following questions. I found these questions on an atheist site. I'm looking for some help answering them.

Thought I may not have all the answers I know that we can find them no matter how hard the question.

1. Why does God allow charlatans to use His name to extract money, sex, attention and even their very lives from devout believers, who truly, honestly believe that they are listening to the word of God?

Firstly, free will is a large factor of this. God will never force us to do something, even if it is for our good. If He did then he would just be treating us as a means to an end.

Secondly, as humans we love to have our ears tickled. If something sounds right and would suit us best we will often go that direction even if it is against Gods will.

2. If God knows the future and the past with perfect certainty, why did He create me knowing that my fate is to burn forever in Hell?

Again, free will. He loves us so much that he will not take away our power of choice.

3. Of the millions of species of insects, arachnids, and other bugs on earth, did Noah actually collect two (or perhaps seven?) of each, and how did they survive for 10 months when some of them have a lifespan measured in hours?

Well, for all we know Noah could have got two of each kind of animals and insects in an infant form. This would have freed up some space. And also what is stopping God from putting those insects and animals in a forced hibernation state so that they could all last that long.

4. (For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.) Genesis 3:5

How were Adam and Eve supposed to distinguish between good and evil acts if they didn't understand the concepts until they ate the fruit?

What this means is that they did not know of all the things that we consider sins now. For example, sex before marriage. Adam and eve may not have known that sex before marriage was a sin. However they did know that eating of the fruit was a sin because God told them not to eat it and they went against his will. They knew what they were doing when they ate the fruit. Thought Adam and eve did not know of every good and evil they understood the Consept of doing what was against Gods will.

Hope that helps

[UndecidedFrog]

Dear botz,

This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian.

Thank you for your response.

So it may seem non-sensical or untrue to you when a Christian declares that he knows G-d personally...but in actual fact it is the truth....and it is based on relationship through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Yes, it does sound non-sensical and untrue. If the proof cannot be objectively known, it cannot be an objective truth.

If sandock (hypothetically) declares that he knows personally that no god exists subjectively based on some relationship with some indwelling spirit that told him so, how am I to believe that as a rational person?

If you tell me that god exists because of your declaration that you know god personally based on some relationship with some indwelling spirit that told you so, how am I to believe that as a rational person?

Regards,

UndecidedFrog

[Botz]

Hi Frog....To me it seems quite simple.

No-one can say with utter veracity that G-d does not exist...I think we have already established that to do this you would have to have the nature and attributes of G-d...which none of us do. The best they can say is that up to this moment in time they do not know...and this spiritual stasis can persist until death...although I believe that every heart that truely longs after knowing G-d will find that He will reveal Himself.

Someone can claim to definately know G-d exists...and however subjective this may or not be it is at least within the bounds of possibilty... just not necessarily within the experiencial understanding of the listener.

You say...

If sandock (hypothetically) declares that he knows personally that no god exists subjectively based on some relationship with some indwelling spirit that told him so, how am I to believe that as a rational person?

This type of reasoning is unreasonable unless there is some sort of context...we can sit around the campfire all night long coming up with intriguing hypotheticals but they will be just a lot of hot air unless firmly established with some context.

The things that I have shared with you have not been drawn randomly out of a hat...but come from a long tradition that is substantiated by the Biblical accounts both of the History and action of the Early Church as it became established through the death and ressurection of Jesus the Messiah....they are checkeroutable...

On the otherhand someone trying to convince me of his pet theory is going to have a mighty hard job if there are no substantial guideposts for me to check out his story...just nebulous reasoning with no real substance.

[Guest Nazim Ali]

God doesn't exist, Noahs arc could never have existed so most of your questions don't get answers logically

[UndecidedFrog]

Dear botz,

This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian.

Thank you for your response.

This type of reasoning is unreasonable unless there is some sort of context...we can sit around the campfire all night long coming up with intriguing hypotheticals but they will be just a lot of hot air unless firmly established with some context.

I agree it is indeed unreasonable, even with some sort of context. We can indeed sit around the campfire all night long arguing if indeed he had an indwelling spirit that claims to know all about everything such that a claim that no god exist could be warranted.

Similarly, the exact opposite is also true. We could also sit around the campfire all night long arguing if indeed you had an indwelling spirit that claims to be god.

You are absolutely correct in that all these hypotheticals are just a lot of hot air unless firmly established by some objective evidence.

The things that I have shared with you have not been drawn randomly out of a hat...but come from a long tradition that is substantiated by the Biblical accounts both of the History and action of the Early Church as it became established through the death and ressurection of Jesus the Messiah....they are checkeroutable...

Unfortunately, I do not give much creedence to a belief just because other people believe it. This is similar to the argument that just because there have been many people throughout history that have jumped off a bridge, that I should follow. Unless there is good reason, I shall not jump.

Regards,

UndecidedFrog

[Botz]

Hi Frog.

I previously said..

The things that I have shared with you have not been drawn randomly out of a hat...but come from a long tradition that is substantiated by the Biblical accounts both of the History and action of the Early Church as it became established through the death and ressurection of Jesus the Messiah....they are checkeroutable...

You said in reply...

Unfortunately, I do not give much creedence to a belief just because other people believe it. This is similar to the argument that just because there have been many people throughout history that have jumped off a bridge, that I should follow. Unless there is good reason, I shall not jump.

Thats fair enough I would say exactly the same thing...but I don't think you grasped the full import of my comments.

To dismiss the claims of the Bible and deny the existence of G-d you do not just have to turn a deaf ear or a blind eye to some religious individual who seeks to convince you of his subjective experience...you have to deny a wealth of evidence that is at your fingertips for you to source...and what people claim are the living words of G-d contained in the Bible.

Whereas for someone to hypothetically say he knows there is no G-d because some spirit who lives in him has revealed it...is complete nonsense with nothing to confirm it...the only evidence is in the mind of that individual...Therefore there is no comparison at all to what is being presented.

You can unearth Middle-Eastern history and see if there really were such places as Jerusalem, Hebron, Galilee et alia and see if the Biblical accounts of the people and places fit in with the archaeology and history of the area.

You can chose to disbelieve the whole weight of evidence...that at the very least might elicit a 'that's interesting'...that is your choice...but however hard you chose to disbelieve it will not change the facts one bit.

In all of this one must ask oneself the question...'Is it reasonable?'

There is no good reason to jump off the bridge.

There is a pretty good reason to have a relationship with G-d.

You may not give much credence to anybodys beliefs and be secure in your own assessment of G-d per se...but it is reasonable to assume you could be mistaken.

Best. Botz.