Two Israels / Two Torahs / Two Covenants / Two Tabernacles

[JohnD]

Now that we have the completed Bible (the full Word of God) we can interpret all of it from the perspective of its fullness.

 

Part of what hinders us in getting at the Truth is traditional interpretations formed from partial revelation. Add to that humanist traditions / interpolations / opinions which cause division, and you pretty much see the modern day landscape in the Body Christian. Division, majoring in the traditions of men, minoring in the Truth, religious costumes and pomp and regalia and goofy rites and rituals...

 

Friends and brethren...

 

These are not what God wants from us or for us!

 

These are not the courts of final arbitration that we have made them into. Only the Bible is.

 

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NASB95)
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

 

John 17:17 (NASB95)
17 “Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.

 

Acts 17:11 (NASB95)
11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

 

And we are to prove all things / test all things 1 Thessalonians 5:21 / test the spirits (even what we think is the Holy Spirit) 1 John 4:1 by the Bible:

 

2 Peter 1:20-21 (NASB95)
20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,
21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

 

God has first and final say.

[JohnD]

Two Israels

 

Romans 9:6 (NASB95)

6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;

 

All Israel

 

Israel

 

Bible!

[JohnD]

Two Torahs

 

1 Corinthians 9:19-21 (NASB95)
19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.
20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;
21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

 

Law of Moses (Torah Moshe)

 

Law of God / Christ (Torah Elohiym Moshiakh)

 

Bible!

[Guest shiloh357]

Two Israels

 

Romans 9:6 (NASB95)

6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;

 

All Israel

 

Israel

 

Bible!

Paul is drawing a distinction between those who were merely  ethnic Israelites vs., those Jews who were true Israelites, the Jewish remant that believes on Jesus.

 

He is not talking about two Israels.

[JohnD]

Two Covenants

 

Jeremiah 31:31-34 (NASB95)
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord.
33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
34 “They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

 

Old Covenant (Old Testament Judaism / Israel)

 

New Covenant (New Covenant Judaism / Israel)

 

Bible!

[JohnD]

Two Tabernacles

 

2 Samuel 7:12-13 (NASB95)
12 “When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.
13 “He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

 

Zechariah 6:12-13 (NASB95)
12 “Then say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord of hosts, “Behold, a man whose name is Branch, for He will branch out from where He is; and He will build the temple of the Lord.
13 “Yes, it is He who will build the temple of the Lord, and He who will bear the honor and sit and rule on His throne. Thus, He will be a priest on His throne, and the counsel of peace will be between the two offices.” ’

 

Matthew 16:18 (NASB95)
18 “I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

 

1 Corinthians 3:16 (NASB95)
16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

 

Bible!

 

footnote...

 

Hebrews 8:5 (NASB95)
5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.”

 

The Bible does not say Solomon had such a pattern...

[JohnD]

 

Two Israels

 

Romans 9:6 (NASB95)

6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;

 

All Israel

 

Israel

 

Bible!

Paul is drawing a distinction between those who were merely  ethnic Israelites vs., those Jews who were true Israelites, the Jewish remant that believes on Jesus.

 

He is not talking about two Israels.

 

 

I note your opinion as just that an opinion.

[Qnts2]

Two Israels

 

Romans 9:6 (NASB95)

6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;

 

All Israel

 

Israel

 

Bible!

 

That verse is simply saying not all of the children of Israel are saved. What it doesn't say is that Gentiles who are saved become members of Israel or a second Israel. You are assuming what isn't actually in the verse.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

Two Israels

 

Romans 9:6 (NASB95)

6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;

 

All Israel

 

Israel

 

Bible!

Paul is drawing a distinction between those who were merely  ethnic Israelites vs., those Jews who were true Israelites, the Jewish remant that believes on Jesus.

 

He is not talking about two Israels.

 

 

I note your opinion as just that an opinion.

 

No, it is not an opinion.   I am simply reflecting the corrrect exegesis of the text.  You are not.

[Qnts2]

Two Covenants

 

Jeremiah 31:31-34 (NASB95)

31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord.

33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

34 “They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

 

Old Covenant (Old Testament Judaism / Israel)

 

New Covenant (New Covenant Judaism / Israel)

 

Bible!

 

There is actually more then two covenants mentioned in the OT. If it is your assumption that every covenant is to a different group of people called Israel, there would be at least 5 groups called Israel. But, scripture only talks about 1 Israel, the descendents of Jacob.