nebula Posted January 25, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Don't kill yourself over this. Ultimately it isn't worth it. You and I will get all wisdom in a very short time, just not now. We both can agree of what really is important-Jesus is the son of God and died to pay the penalty we so deserved and now we can have eternal life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted January 25, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 25, 2014 Don't kill yourself over this. Ultimately it isn't worth it. You and I will get all wisdom in a very short time, just not now. We both can agree of what really is important-Jesus is the son of God and died to pay the penalty we so deserved and now we can have eternal life. Wow, what a day for me. Not one, but two "amens" from two of my favorite ladies on this board, in one day. I heart you both and wish a blessed day for each of you-morning glory and nebula. Thanks for richly blessing me and for the great fellowship you provide on this site. Your brother in CHRIST, Spock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwark Posted January 25, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 21 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/24/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2014 There are not two stories. This is a story technique that is repeated in the bible, i.e. animals in the ark. But this is off topic. There are all kinds of opinions about the different kinds of creation stories, but what is important is how the people that lived in those times understood how it was suppose to be interpreted, and this is a literal 6 day creation. Back then, people didn't care about understanding the the natural world for the sake of the natural world. Nor did they care about time the way we would. Consider this, Matthew writes a genealogy for Jesus that skips people (as compared to what we see in the OT) and claims there were "14 generations" between significant people. Can you explain how we can consider Matthew's "14 generations" as literal when we know in reality there were more than that? If we can take this literally, then why can we not take a more lenient understanding of a Genesis 1 "day" to be just as literal? Matthew's "14 generations" corresponds to story telling of his time and not our ethnocentric idea of historical precision. Just like God incarnates stating that mustard seed is the smallest of seeds corresponds to the subsistence farmers and herders of that area knowledge of seeds. The reason we take the creation story literal is because that is how it is told, that is how it was understood, and there are no arguments to say otherwise that can withstand scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwark Posted January 25, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 21 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/24/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2014 Except that God didn't make the stars on "day" 3, He made visible what was already in existence. The word that is translated as "made" or "created" is not the same word used in earlier verses. This word means to "accomplish, bestow, or bring to completion". He made the stars on day 4. argggghhhh! Why do people always say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwark Posted January 25, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 21 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/24/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2014 Except that God didn't make the stars on "day" 3, He made visible what was already in existence. The word that is translated as "made" or "created" is not the same word used in earlier verses. This word means to "accomplish, bestow, or bring to completion". I'm amazed at how many YEC do not want to even consider the possibility of this. This even allows for their literal six day interpretation. Sigh I am a YEC. I do not see why this is significant. Well, many YEC people say the universe is 6000 years old too. Why not consider the universe to have already been laid for a long time before God recreated the earth from darkness and void? In the beginning God CREATED the heavens (stars)and the earth. Dateless past. Now here comes the restoration/recreation-the six day story as you insist is literal. Maybe it is. The 6000 year thing is a product of Bishop Unger and Lightfoot. It is plagued with problems and assumptions. We do not know how old the universe is. The difference between YEC and Old earthers is that YEC's believe that God created "all that there is" in 6 literal days, and old earthers believe that God is not capable of doing it. That is rather unflattering, but that is the nuts and bolts of it. I do not apologize or compromise my beliefs to fit the modern dark ages of science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted January 25, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 25, 2014 Except that God didn't make the stars on "day" 3, He made visible what was already in existence. The word that is translated as "made" or "created" is not the same word used in earlier verses. This word means to "accomplish, bestow, or bring to completion". I'm amazed at how many YEC do not want to even consider the possibility of this. This even allows for their literal six day interpretation. Sigh I am a YEC. I do not see why this is significant. Well, many YEC people say the universe is 6000 years old too. Why not consider the universe to have already been laid for a long time before God recreated the earth from darkness and void? In the beginning God CREATED the heavens (stars)and the earth. Dateless past. Now here comes the restoration/recreation-the six day story as you insist is literal. Maybe it is. The 6000 year thing is a product of Bishop Unger and Lightfoot. It is plagued with problems and assumptions. We do not know how old the universe is. The difference between YEC and Old earthers is that YEC's believe that God created "all that there is" in 6 literal days, and old earthers believe that God is not capable of doing it. That is rather unflattering, but that is the nuts and bolts of it. I do not apologize or compromise my beliefs to fit the modern dark ages of science. Ouch! Not capable? Where or when did we add that condition? All things are possible for our God. Oy ve Sigh Shaking my head.... Believe what you want, but please don't misrepresent the basis for what I believe (small God). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted January 25, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2014 Don't kill yourself over this. Ultimately it isn't worth it. You and I will get all wisdom in a very short time, just not now. We both can agree of what really is important-Jesus is the son of God and died to pay the penalty we so deserved and now we can have eternal life. Wow, what a day for me. Not one, but two "amens" from two of my favorite ladies on this board, in one day. I heart you both and wish a blessed day for each of you-morning glory and nebula. Thanks for richly blessing me and for the great fellowship you provide on this site. Your brother in CHRIST, Spock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted January 25, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Been through (just a glimpse): one way- velocity of light, conventionality of simultaneity, Special Relativity in relation to the previous two, calculated time vs observed time, Isotropic vs Anisotropic, Euclidean Distance and Riemannian Distance (curved Space) Hmmm... don't stop now man. Hmmm....why? Is there some secret knowledge waiting for me somewhere? When my car breaks down and I tear it apart in pieces in my garage...then I find the problem ( fuel filter!! ) Put it together...it fires right up and off I go..."purrs like a kitten". I then don't go back and tear it apart again looking for more knowledge. You must have missed this.... (Genesis 1:14-15) "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so." "light upon the earth: And it was So"....it wasn't so 2,10,15,100,2000, or 14 Billion Years. It was Instantaneous!! How do I know, Because GOD SAID SO!! And HE was There!!! I'll just take HIS WORD for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwark Posted January 25, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 21 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/24/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2014 Except that God didn't make the stars on "day" 3, He made visible what was already in existence. The word that is translated as "made" or "created" is not the same word used in earlier verses. This word means to "accomplish, bestow, or bring to completion". I'm amazed at how many YEC do not want to even consider the possibility of this. This even allows for their literal six day interpretation. Sigh I am a YEC. I do not see why this is significant. Well, many YEC people say the universe is 6000 years old too. Why not consider the universe to have already been laid for a long time before God recreated the earth from darkness and void? In the beginning God CREATED the heavens (stars)and the earth. Dateless past. Now here comes the restoration/recreation-the six day story as you insist is literal. Maybe it is. The 6000 year thing is a product of Bishop Unger and Lightfoot. It is plagued with problems and assumptions. We do not know how old the universe is. The difference between YEC and Old earthers is that YEC's believe that God created "all that there is" in 6 literal days, and old earthers believe that God is not capable of doing it. That is rather unflattering, but that is the nuts and bolts of it. I do not apologize or compromise my beliefs to fit the modern dark ages of science. Ouch! Not capable? Where or when did we add that condition? All things are possible for our God. Oy ve Sigh Shaking my head.... Believe what you want, but please don't misrepresent the basis for what I believe (small God). Well, if it quacks like a duck? The bible clearly states that God created "all that there is" in 6 literal days, the bible also shows that the people of those times and culture understood it to be 6 literal days, the terms in the argument (God) is defined as capable of doing so, and the argument you are using against it is forensic science-appealing to natural law show that the universe is old because it appears to be old? Question, using your forensic science argument, appealing to natural law, how old would Adam be when he was created by God? Would forensic science state that the speaking, walking, breathing Adam was less than a day old? Dude, its a duck. I love ya man, nothing personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 25, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 25, 2014 There are not two stories. This is a story technique that is repeated in the bible, i.e. animals in the ark. But this is off topic. There are all kinds of opinions about the different kinds of creation stories, but what is important is how the people that lived in those times understood how it was suppose to be interpreted, and this is a literal 6 day creation. Back then, people didn't care about understanding the the natural world for the sake of the natural world. Nor did they care about time the way we would. Consider this, Matthew writes a genealogy for Jesus that skips people (as compared to what we see in the OT) and claims there were "14 generations" between significant people. Can you explain how we can consider Matthew's "14 generations" as literal when we know in reality there were more than that? If we can take this literally, then why can we not take a more lenient understanding of a Genesis 1 "day" to be just as literal? Matthew's "14 generations" corresponds to story telling of his time and not our ethnocentric idea of historical precision. Just like God incarnates stating that mustard seed is the smallest of seeds corresponds to the subsistence farmers and herders of that area knowledge of seeds. I find this amusing. "Matthew's '14 generations' corresponds to story telling of his time and not our ethnocentric idea of historical precision." But yet Genesis 1 corresponds to our ethnocentric idea of historical precision? In ancient times, the concept of time was not heeded with our historical precision. Likewise, chronology was not heeded with our historical precision. Nor was the description of events heeded with our historical precision. Yet people claim the days of Genesis 1 were regarded with our historical precision, the chronology presented was regarded with our historical precision, and the description of events was heeded with our historical precision. Unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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