The Distant Starlight Problem

[Spock]

Except that God didn't make the stars on "day" 3, He made visible what was already in existence. The word that is translated as "made" or "created" is not the same word used in earlier verses. This word means to "accomplish, bestow, or bring to completion".

I'm amazed at how many YEC do not want to even consider the possibility of this. This even allows for their literal six day interpretation. Sigh

I am a YEC. I do not see why this is significant.

Well, many YEC people say the universe is 6000 years old too. Why not consider the universe to have already been laid for a long time before God recreated the earth from darkness and void?

In the beginning God CREATED the heavens (stars)and the earth. Dateless past.

Now here comes the restoration/recreation-the six day story as you insist is literal. Maybe it is.

The 6000 year thing is a product of Bishop Unger and Lightfoot.  It is plagued with problems and assumptions.

 

We do not know how old the universe is.

 

The difference between YEC and Old earthers is that YEC's believe that God created "all that there is" in 6 literal days, and old earthers believe that God is not capable of doing it.

 

That is rather unflattering, but that is the nuts and bolts of it.  I do not apologize or compromise my beliefs to fit the modern dark ages of science.

Ouch! Not capable? Where or when did we add that condition?

All things are possible for our God.

Oy ve

Sigh

Shaking my head....

Believe what you want, but please don't misrepresent the basis for what I believe (small God).

Well, if it quacks like a duck?

 

The bible clearly states that God created "all that there is" in 6 literal days, the bible also shows that the people of those times and culture understood it to be 6 literal days, the terms in the argument (God) is defined as capable of doing so, and the argument you are using against it is forensic science-appealing to natural law show that the universe is old because it appears to be old?

 

Question, using your forensic science argument, appealing to natural law, how old would Adam be when he was created by God? Would forensic science state that the speaking, walking, breathing Adam was less than a day old?

 

Dude, its a duck.

 

I love ya man, nothing personal.

I have no problem believing Adam came on the scene in the last 10,000 years.

As previously mentioned, I never said God did not RESTORE planet earth in six literal days.

As you can see, we actually have a lot in common.

I think we seem to differ on the age of the universe and the age of the earth. No big deal. We both agree in a literal Adam about 10000 years ago who did not evolve from monkey.

Love you to bro. By the way, loved your duck reference. Made me smile.

Spock out

[Enoch2021]

 

Except that God didn't make the stars on "day" 3, He made visible what was already in existence.  The word that is translated as "made" or "created" is not the same word used in earlier verses. This word means to "accomplish, bestow, or bring to completion".

I'm amazed at how many YEC do not want to even consider the possibility of this. This even allows for their literal six day interpretation. Sigh

 

 

How do you know.... I haven't only considered it but tore it apart looking @ all conceivable angles (Type A   )??   

 

Are you Presuming...again?

 

You can stop being amazed anytime now.

 

 

I take these and ALL of GOD's WORD very seriously.....

 

(1 Thessalonians 5:21) "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."

 

(Proverbs 18:13) "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him."

[LookingForAnswers]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Except that God didn't make the stars on "day" 3, He made visible what was already in existence. The word that is translated as "made" or "created" is not the same word used in earlier verses. This word means to "accomplish, bestow, or bring to completion".

I'm amazed at how many YEC do not want to even consider the possibility of this. This even allows for their literal six day interpretation. Sigh

I am a YEC. I do not see why this is significant.

Well, many YEC people say the universe is 6000 years old too. Why not consider the universe to have already been laid for a long time before God recreated the earth from darkness and void?

In the beginning God CREATED the heavens (stars)and the earth. Dateless past.

Now here comes the restoration/recreation-the six day story as you insist is literal. Maybe it is.

The 6000 year thing is a product of Bishop Unger and Lightfoot.  It is plagued with problems and assumptions.

 

We do not know how old the universe is.

 

The difference between YEC and Old earthers is that YEC's believe that God created "all that there is" in 6 literal days, and old earthers believe that God is not capable of doing it.

 

That is rather unflattering, but that is the nuts and bolts of it.  I do not apologize or compromise my beliefs to fit the modern dark ages of science.

Ouch! Not capable? Where or when did we add that condition?

All things are possible for our God.

Oy ve

Sigh

Shaking my head....

Believe what you want, but please don't misrepresent the basis for what I believe (small God).

 

Well, if it quacks like a duck?

 

The bible clearly states that God created "all that there is" in 6 literal days, the bible also shows that the people of those times and culture understood it to be 6 literal days, the terms in the argument (God) is defined as capable of doing so, and the argument you are using against it is forensic science-appealing to natural law show that the universe is old because it appears to be old?

 

Question, using your forensic science argument, appealing to natural law, how old would Adam be when he was created by God? Would forensic science state that the speaking, walking, breathing Adam was less than a day old?

 

Dude, its a duck.

 

I love ya man, nothing personal.  

 

 

intentionally misrepresenting another's view is not an act of love, it is an act of deceit.  Love never acts in that manner. 

Edited January 25, 2014 by LookingForAnswers

[LookingForAnswers]

 

Except that God didn't make the stars on "day" 3, He made visible what was already in existence.  The word that is translated as "made" or "created" is not the same word used in earlier verses. This word means to "accomplish, bestow, or bring to completion".

He made the stars on day 4.  argggghhhh!   Why do people always say that.  

 

 

Just stating the facts, the word used for day 4 is a totally different word than used in verse 1 and has a totally different connotation.  The people of those times and culture understood this.

[Spock]

Except that God didn't make the stars on "day" 3, He made visible what was already in existence.  The word that is translated as "made" or "created" is not the same word used in earlier verses. This word means to "accomplish, bestow, or bring to completion".

I'm amazed at how many YEC do not want to even consider the possibility of this. This even allows for their literal six day interpretation. Sigh

 

How do you know.... I haven't only considered it but tore it apart looking @ all conceivable angles (Type A   )??   

 

Are you Presuming...again?

 

You can stop being amazed anytime now.

 

 

I take these and ALL of GOD's WORD very seriously.....

 

(1 Thessalonians 5:21) "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."

 

(Proverbs 18:13) "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him."

You were not included in my reference of those who do not even consider the possibility...because I know you have studied this hard and even though you have not altered your stance, you were willing to explore with an open mind. I give you a lot of props for at least trying. Many probably wouldn't even bother. I applaud you for TRYING.

Clap clap

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

Except that God didn't make the stars on "day" 3, He made visible what was already in existence.  The word that is translated as "made" or "created" is not the same word used in earlier verses. This word means to "accomplish, bestow, or bring to completion".

I'm amazed at how many YEC do not want to even consider the possibility of this. This even allows for their literal six day interpretation. Sigh

 

How do you know.... I haven't only considered it but tore it apart looking @ all conceivable angles (Type A   )??   

 

Are you Presuming...again?

 

You can stop being amazed anytime now.

 

 

I take these and ALL of GOD's WORD very seriously.....

 

(1 Thessalonians 5:21) "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."

 

(Proverbs 18:13) "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him."

You were not included in my reference of those who do not even consider the possibility...because I know you have studied this hard and even though you have not altered your stance, you were willing to explore with an open mind. I give you a lot of props for at least trying. Many probably wouldn't even bother. I applaud you for TRYING.

Clap clap

 

 

Sorry,  you said YEC....and that's ME

 

However, I missed that you qualified it..... "I'm amazed at how many YEC"

 

My Mistake

[Spock]

Except that God didn't make the stars on "day" 3, He made visible what was already in existence.  The word that is translated as "made" or "created" is not the same word used in earlier verses. This word means to "accomplish, bestow, or bring to completion".

I'm amazed at how many YEC do not want to even consider the possibility of this. This even allows for their literal six day interpretation. Sigh

 

How do you know.... I haven't only considered it but tore it apart looking @ all conceivable angles (Type A   )??   

 

Are you Presuming...again?

 

You can stop being amazed anytime now.

 

 

I take these and ALL of GOD's WORD very seriously.....

 

(1 Thessalonians 5:21) "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."

 

(Proverbs 18:13) "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him."

You were not included in my reference of those who do not even consider the possibility...because I know you have studied this hard and even though you have not altered your stance, you were willing to explore with an open mind. I give you a lot of props for at least trying. Many probably wouldn't even bother. I applaud you for TRYING.

Clap clap

 

Sorry,  you said YEC....and that's ME

 

However, I missed that you qualified it..... "I'm amazed at how many YEC"

 

My Mistake

Actually, it really wasn't your mistake. You could easily infer I meant you as part of the many.

I wish I had said, " I'm amazed at how many, Enoch excluded, believe....."

The mistake was more mine. You were faultless......on this one.

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

 

 

Except that God didn't make the stars on "day" 3, He made visible what was already in existence.  The word that is translated as "made" or "created" is not the same word used in earlier verses. This word means to "accomplish, bestow, or bring to completion".

I'm amazed at how many YEC do not want to even consider the possibility of this. This even allows for their literal six day interpretation. Sigh

 

How do you know.... I haven't only considered it but tore it apart looking @ all conceivable angles (Type A   )??   

 

Are you Presuming...again?

 

You can stop being amazed anytime now.

 

 

I take these and ALL of GOD's WORD very seriously.....

 

(1 Thessalonians 5:21) "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."

 

(Proverbs 18:13) "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him."

You were not included in my reference of those who do not even consider the possibility...because I know you have studied this hard and even though you have not altered your stance, you were willing to explore with an open mind. I give you a lot of props for at least trying. Many probably wouldn't even bother. I applaud you for TRYING.

Clap clap

 

Sorry,  you said YEC....and that's ME

 

However, I missed that you qualified it..... "I'm amazed at how many YEC"

 

My Mistake

Actually, it really wasn't your mistake. You could easily infer I meant you as part of the many.

I wish I had said, " I'm amazed at how many, Enoch excluded, believe....."

The mistake was more mine. You were faultless......on this one.

 

 

" I'm amazed at how many, Enoch excluded, believe....."

 

LOL LOL

[Dwark]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Except that God didn't make the stars on "day" 3, He made visible what was already in existence. The word that is translated as "made" or "created" is not the same word used in earlier verses. This word means to "accomplish, bestow, or bring to completion".

I'm amazed at how many YEC do not want to even consider the possibility of this. This even allows for their literal six day interpretation. Sigh

I am a YEC. I do not see why this is significant.

Well, many YEC people say the universe is 6000 years old too. Why not consider the universe to have already been laid for a long time before God recreated the earth from darkness and void?

In the beginning God CREATED the heavens (stars)and the earth. Dateless past.

Now here comes the restoration/recreation-the six day story as you insist is literal. Maybe it is.

The 6000 year thing is a product of Bishop Unger and Lightfoot.  It is plagued with problems and assumptions.

 

We do not know how old the universe is.

 

The difference between YEC and Old earthers is that YEC's believe that God created "all that there is" in 6 literal days, and old earthers believe that God is not capable of doing it.

 

That is rather unflattering, but that is the nuts and bolts of it.  I do not apologize or compromise my beliefs to fit the modern dark ages of science.

Ouch! Not capable? Where or when did we add that condition?

All things are possible for our God.

Oy ve

Sigh

Shaking my head....

Believe what you want, but please don't misrepresent the basis for what I believe (small God).

 

Well, if it quacks like a duck?

 

The bible clearly states that God created "all that there is" in 6 literal days, the bible also shows that the people of those times and culture understood it to be 6 literal days, the terms in the argument (God) is defined as capable of doing so, and the argument you are using against it is forensic science-appealing to natural law show that the universe is old because it appears to be old?

 

Question, using your forensic science argument, appealing to natural law, how old would Adam be when he was created by God? Would forensic science state that the speaking, walking, breathing Adam was less than a day old?

 

Dude, its a duck.

 

I love ya man, nothing personal.  

 

 

intentionally misrepresenting another's view is not an act of love, it is an act of deceit.  Love never acts in that manner. 

 

Actually that would be slander, and slanders do not inherit eternal life, according to Paul.  I did not misrepresent him, I did not say that he said that God is not capable.  Your misrepresentation of my statement was actually me talking about Old earthers in general,  I have no idea if Spock is an old Earther, an evolutionist, a christian wiccan, or ?????

 

But this is generally the way non-YEC's defend themselves when they are faced with the facts.

 

Has any non-YEC been able to defend their non literal belief in creation with other than an appeal to "natural law".  Follow the argument all the way.  

[Dwark]

 

 

Except that God didn't make the stars on "day" 3, He made visible what was already in existence.  The word that is translated as "made" or "created" is not the same word used in earlier verses. This word means to "accomplish, bestow, or bring to completion".

He made the stars on day 4.  argggghhhh!   Why do people always say that.  

 

 

Just stating the facts, the word used for day 4 is a totally different word than used in verse 1 and has a totally different connotation.  The people of those times and culture understood this.

 

I have never heard that before.  Please show me how you support this.

 

Genesis Chapter 1 בְּרֵאשִׁית א  בְּרֵאשִׁית, בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים, אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם, וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ. 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. ב  וְהָאָרֶץ, הָיְתָה תֹהוּ וָבֹהוּ, וְחֹשֶׁךְ, עַל-פְּנֵי תְהוֹם; וְרוּחַ אֱלֹהִים, מְרַחֶפֶת עַל-פְּנֵי הַמָּיִם. 2 Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters. ג  וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, יְהִי אוֹר; וַיְהִי-אוֹר. 3 And God said: 'Let there be light.' And there was light. ד  וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים אֶת-הָאוֹר, כִּי-טוֹב; וַיַּבְדֵּל אֱלֹהִים, בֵּין הָאוֹר וּבֵין הַחֹשֶׁךְ. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. ה  וַיִּקְרָא אֱלֹהִים לָאוֹר יוֹם, וְלַחֹשֶׁךְ קָרָא לָיְלָה; וַיְהִי-עֶרֶב וַיְהִי-בֹקֶר, יוֹם אֶחָד.  {פ} 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. {P} ו  וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, יְהִי רָקִיעַ בְּתוֹךְ הַמָּיִם, וִיהִי מַבְדִּיל, בֵּין מַיִם לָמָיִם. 6 And God said: 'Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.' ז  וַיַּעַשׂ אֱלֹהִים, אֶת-הָרָקִיעַ, וַיַּבְדֵּל בֵּין הַמַּיִם אֲשֶׁר מִתַּחַת לָרָקִיעַ, וּבֵין הַמַּיִם אֲשֶׁר מֵעַל לָרָקִיעַ; וַיְהִי-כֵן. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. ח  וַיִּקְרָא אֱלֹהִים לָרָקִיעַ, שָׁמָיִם; וַיְהִי-עֶרֶב וַיְהִי-בֹקֶר, יוֹם שֵׁנִי.  {פ} 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. {P} ט  וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, יִקָּווּ הַמַּיִם מִתַּחַת הַשָּׁמַיִם אֶל-מָקוֹם אֶחָד, וְתֵרָאֶה, הַיַּבָּשָׁה; וַיְהִי-כֵן. 9 And God said: 'Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear.' And it was so. י  וַיִּקְרָא אֱלֹהִים לַיַּבָּשָׁה אֶרֶץ, וּלְמִקְוֵה הַמַּיִם קָרָא יַמִּים; וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים, כִּי-טוֹב. 10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters called He Seas; and God saw that it was good. יא  וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, תַּדְשֵׁא הָאָרֶץ דֶּשֶׁא עֵשֶׂב מַזְרִיעַ זֶרַע, עֵץ פְּרִי עֹשֶׂה פְּרִי לְמִינוֹ, אֲשֶׁר זַרְעוֹ-בוֹ עַל-הָאָרֶץ; וַיְהִי-כֵן. 11 And God said: 'Let the earth put forth grass, herb yielding seed, and fruit-tree bearing fruit after its kind, wherein is the seed thereof, upon the earth.' And it was so. יב  וַתּוֹצֵא הָאָרֶץ דֶּשֶׁא עֵשֶׂב מַזְרִיעַ זֶרַע, לְמִינֵהוּ, וְעֵץ עֹשֶׂה-פְּרִי אֲשֶׁר זַרְעוֹ-בוֹ, לְמִינֵהוּ; וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים, כִּי-טוֹב. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, herb yielding seed after its kind, and tree bearing fruit, wherein is the seed thereof, after its kind; and God saw that it was good. יג  וַיְהִי-עֶרֶב וַיְהִי-בֹקֶר, יוֹם שְׁלִישִׁי.  {פ} 13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day. {P} יד  וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, יְהִי מְאֹרֹת בִּרְקִיעַ הַשָּׁמַיִם, לְהַבְדִּיל, בֵּין הַיּוֹם וּבֵין הַלָּיְלָה; וְהָיוּ לְאֹתֹת וּלְמוֹעֲדִים, וּלְיָמִים וְשָׁנִים. 14 And God said: 'Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years; טו  וְהָיוּ לִמְאוֹרֹת בִּרְקִיעַ הַשָּׁמַיִם, לְהָאִיר עַל-הָאָרֶץ; וַיְהִי-כֵן. 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth.' And it was so. טז  וַיַּעַשׂ אֱלֹהִים, אֶת-שְׁנֵי הַמְּאֹרֹת הַגְּדֹלִים:  אֶת-הַמָּאוֹר הַגָּדֹל, לְמֶמְשֶׁלֶת הַיּוֹם, וְאֶת-הַמָּאוֹר הַקָּטֹן לְמֶמְשֶׁלֶת הַלַּיְלָה, וְאֵת הַכּוֹכָבִים. 16 And God made the two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night; and the stars. יז  וַיִּתֵּן אֹתָם אֱלֹהִים, בִּרְקִיעַ הַשָּׁמָיִם, לְהָאִיר, עַל-הָאָרֶץ. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, יח  וְלִמְשֹׁל, בַּיּוֹם וּבַלַּיְלָה, וּלְהַבְדִּיל, בֵּין הָאוֹר וּבֵין הַחֹשֶׁךְ; וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים, כִּי-טוֹב. 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. יט  וַיְהִי-עֶרֶב וַיְהִי-בֹקֶר, יוֹם רְבִיעִי.  {פ} 19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day. {P}

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