Guest Butero Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Lets look at this for a moment, and lets suppose that these creatures were tormenters, angels used to torment the wicked, rather than demons. I don't see how innocent people could almost fall into hell. I don't see how people in hell could throw rocks at Jesus and why he would allow it. I could see Jesus allowing a person to have a vision of people being tormented in hell, but the things you describe don't seem like they fit. I would think that those in hell would be pleading for mercy, having realized what hell is like, not throwing rocks at Jesus. I am not going to dismiss your experience, but I do have to question whether or not it was really as it appeared, and not some kind of deception. Just out of curiosity, have you ever been involved in the occult? Also, you said you have been taken into the spiritual realm more than once. Can you describe your other experiences? Thanks, and I appreciate you sharing your experiences with us. first they werent throwing rocks at jesus but a man and no i have never been in an occult. as for the other times i was taken into the spiritual i can tell you two right now but the third will require me to make a thread about because of how long it is. i have met god the father twice we always meet in a pure white place there is a name for it but i cant remeber what its called but time and space do not exist there i was there for mere minutes yet i had a twelve hour sleep i dint even have any dreams. the first was before i was a believer god took me to that white place and i was on his right in front of us he said was his plan and it looked like a river of colors far more vivid and colorful than those that can exist on earth. so much so i was bawling saying over and over ty for showing me this. the second time we met in the same place i had been drinking so much coffee in the day that it was damaging my body so when we met he told me i need to stop drinking coffe and i said but lord i need it to wake up in the morning and he said in a loud voice then just drink it in the morning. btw if this event of hell was of fear why did i get to meet jesus and why was i not afraid and trusted god both when i was falling into the fire and when the demon consumed me? You experienced these things. I didn't, and I misunderstood you, because I thought you said people were throwing rocks at Jesus. I am not sure what to make of it to be honest with you, but I would be interested in your other time in the spiritual realm. God can do anything he wants, even show you heaven and hell, so I am not ready to discount what you said. Most people haven't encountered anything like you describe, so I am trying to understand it. What do you think was the purpose of the experiences? Did you learn things that have greatly impacted your life for the good? Were there lessons you learned that have helped you minister to others? Why do you think God chose to meet with you that way? Have a great day, and I will try to check back this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 5, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Hello fire-heart - I'm in no place to evaluate this. All I can say is that I have heard a couple testimony from others whom God took them to experience Hell so that they could warn others of what it is like. I can imagine how experiencing Hell first-hand would encourage one to evangelize! The only critique I would have though, and not to be mean, but your writing is difficult to read. One of the reasons that some of your words are being misunderstood is because of a writing style that, to be blunt, lacks proper grammar. I don't know if it is possible for you to proof-read your work, but if you can, it would help clarify some things you wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjp34652 Posted March 5, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 448 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 156 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5, 2014 Demons are punished in the lake of fire too. So why would they have the ability to torment others? I think you are making too much of your dream. it wasnt a dream i was literally taken into the spiritual realm i dont understand it all either but i mean hey i got to meet jesus:] None of the following negates your experience. My post does attempt to assess it according to Biblical standards. That was an interesting dream. You should be aware, however, that it doesn't match Biblical revelations. As such I can only deduce that it was either your active imagination or the manifestation of demonic influence. Considering your insistence that you really did have a spiritual experience I would guess the latter. I suggest you study what the Bible says on the subject and match it with your experience. The Bible says there are many named Jesus. I have heard testimony from former spiritualists and satanic priests that they had contacted a spirit named Jesus. Islamic eschatology speaks of a Muslim Jesus who will return in the last days and persuade many to join Islam. Consider all this and then consider the possibility that the Jesus you witnessed may not have been Jesus of Nazareth. The image of hell that is popularly held was developed in ancient Rome and Greece. It has it roots in cultures even more distant in time. Following the fall of Rome and the establishment of the church as an institution, several pagan ideas were absorbed into the religion. One of those ideas was a formalized concept of hell. If I was to point to a single document from those times that most clearly reveals the influence upon Christianity of those images I suppose I'd refer to THE DIVINE COMEDY by Dante Alighieri. If the reader is interested in reading the book I'd suggest a trip to the library and a quick perusal of the pages. Each chapter has art work of the suffering damned and the blessed saints in three sections; Inferno, Purgatorio and Paradiso. Look at the pictures. They're really intense. Note the reference to the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory - the waiting area where the dead suffer and wait until final disposition by the Great Judge of all mankind. (guess who?) According to these references, not accepted by Protestant authorities, your dream was more indicative of Purgatory not Hell/Inferno.(*) "They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever." - Jude 13 (a description of the afterlife reserved for the unsaved) The passage above suggests an eternity devoid of ANY experience at all. It suggests, for example, that a disembodied human spirit wanders without God until like a burned out candle it eventually extinguishes. The fires of hell, therefore, are not red, orange and yellow with fragrances of sulfur. There is no smell at all and the torment is black fire - darkness without experience or personal identity. It is the loss of identity which is key to understanding heaven and hell. Compare this textual image with that of the middle ages version. Big difference. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it. - Jesus (Math. 16:25 The above passage clearly, very clearly, states that the path to salvation includes a necessary change of identity. One must forsake one's identity and accept Christ. This acceptance leads to the second birth and identification with the Almighty through Jesus Christ. Without it the unsaved loses his or her identity when the mind and body dies. There is nothing left to experience or to refer to. The disembodied human spirit withers and dies like the dying embers of a bonfire. Again, it is not uncommon for a Christian, or anyone else for that matter, to receive spiritual revelations from demonic powers. The Christian is unique, however, in that we have the Word of God to use as a benchmark to judge these experiences. And judge them we must. I do not doubt that you had a legitimate spiritual experience. I've had them too. I do question whether it was of God. So should you. It will not detract from the reality of your experience, but it will put the whole thing in proper perspective. Please consider my words carefully. and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft... (*) For your own curiosity I'd recommend reading the Apocrypha. This is the scripture Catholics use to justify their notions of Purgatory. It's not as refined as Dante's work, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted March 5, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5, 2014 so i felt i should share this. you see sometimes almost rarely in my sleep i am taken into the spiritual realm. in there you dont think with logic you speak and react with your heart. that would not be good advice fireheart. John received his vision on the Island of Patmos and if his mine were in neutral, he would not have been able to write as he was told to write, what was given him in the revelation. Your experience is not Biblical...I have known quite a few who passively enjoy this type of experience. It is not the Holy Spirit...there is not purpose to it and it is deception....you are not having unique expriences. As I stated, I have seen this type of thing on a good number of occasions and nothing solid ever comes from them. God is not glorified, the Body of Christ is not edified and there is no spiritual growth in the individual who purposes to allow these spiritualist activities to continue. Rather, the person becomes wrapped in their experience and Bible study and actual prayer...to God...that is, God as we learn of Him in scripture, becomes non-existent and the person believes they have some special endowment or dispensation and they begin to reject anyone who does not believe God is speaking through them or using them in a way that basically is apart from scripture and actually disagrees with scripture, as has already been pointed out. A word of caution...we are not supposed to slip our minds into neutral. That, is not the teaching of the Bible. In a passive state, our minds are suggestible and open to thoughts and suggestions that are not of God. Frankly, I would, having read numerous of your dreams/visions and questions regarding prophecy in the last few days, reject out of hand and without reservation what you experiencing. I understand that advice will most likely not be received. The deeper you go into these fantasies, the harder it will be to acknowledge truth. Yes, I am quite blunt, but I have tried to caution you with scripture...so, I am now just writing quite plainly. The , the revealed and inspired word of God, does not ever teach that we go into the spiritual realm and do not use our minds. this, is not of God And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect. Romans 12:2 For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ, II Corinthians 10: 4-5 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God. Colossians 3:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire-heart Posted March 5, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 93 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 386 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 104 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/02/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/20/1991 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) Lets look at this for a moment, and lets suppose that these creatures were tormenters, angels used to torment the wicked, rather than demons. I don't see how innocent people could almost fall into hell. I don't see how people in hell could throw rocks at Jesus and why he would allow it. I could see Jesus allowing a person to have a vision of people being tormented in hell, but the things you describe don't seem like they fit. I would think that those in hell would be pleading for mercy, having realized what hell is like, not throwing rocks at Jesus. I am not going to dismiss your experience, but I do have to question whether or not it was really as it appeared, and not some kind of deception. Just out of curiosity, have you ever been involved in the occult? Also, you said you have been taken into the spiritual realm more than once. Can you describe your other experiences? Thanks, and I appreciate you sharing your experiences with us. first they werent throwing rocks at jesus but a man and no i have never been in an occult. as for the other times i was taken into the spiritual i can tell you two right now but the third will require me to make a thread about because of how long it is. i have met god the father twice we always meet in a pure white place there is a name for it but i cant remeber what its called but time and space do not exist there i was there for mere minutes yet i had a twelve hour sleep i dint even have any dreams. the first was before i was a believer god took me to that white place and i was on his right in front of us he said was his plan and it looked like a river of colors far more vivid and colorful than those that can exist on earth. so much so i was bawling saying over and over ty for showing me this. the second time we met in the same place i had been drinking so much coffee in the day that it was damaging my body so when we met he told me i need to stop drinking coffe and i said but lord i need it to wake up in the morning and he said in a loud voice then just drink it in the morning. btw if this event of hell was of fear why did i get to meet jesus and why was i not afraid and trusted god both when i was falling into the fire and when the demon consumed me? You experienced these things. I didn't, and I misunderstood you, because I thought you said people were throwing rocks at Jesus. I am not sure what to make of it to be honest with you, but I would be interested in your other time in the spiritual realm. God can do anything he wants, even show you heaven and hell, so I am not ready to discount what you said. Most people haven't encountered anything like you describe, so I am trying to understand it. What do you think was the purpose of the experiences? Did you learn things that have greatly impacted your life for the good? Were there lessons you learned that have helped you minister to others? Why do you think God chose to meet with you that way? Have a great day, and I will try to check back this evening. well you see i had been praying to meet jesus and to hear his laughter for a long time both my prayers were answered there and i believe God allowed me to see hell so i warn ppl of whats in store if they dont repent and seek jesus. i did learn a lesson from him giving me the bread but refusing to accept it when i tried to give him it. i believe he willingly made it where he would have physical needs such as hunger to prove he is willing to suffer for our sake i dont expect a lot of ppl to believe me or understand as going into the spiritual realm does not happen to everyone what i like about the spiritual realm is your mind is clear from any logical or human thinking so when you are tested you think act and react according to your heart Edited March 5, 2014 by fire-heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted March 6, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 6, 2014 First of all, Jesus is in Heaven preparing a place for us. He is not in hell. No one occupies the Lake of Fire yet. Secondly, you did not meet with God or see Him. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire-heart Posted March 6, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 93 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 386 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 104 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/02/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/20/1991 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 First of all, Jesus is in Heaven preparing a place for us. He is not in hell. No one occupies the Lake of Fire yet. Secondly, you did not meet with God or see Him. In Christ Montana Marv i dont mind if you dont believe me in my experience but saying i did not meet him? how would you know who i have encountered or not? just because we met in hell? like i said my faith was to be tested and i know who Jesus is. you are right he does not reside in hell however as almighty God who are we to say he will not be there to protect us if we visit it? that said i am done debating about this as it is not going to help either side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted March 6, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 6, 2014 First of all, Jesus is in Heaven preparing a place for us. He is not in hell. No one occupies the Lake of Fire yet. Secondly, you did not meet with God or see Him. In Christ Montana Marv i dont mind if you dont believe me in my experience but saying i did not meet him? how would you know who i have encountered or not? just because we met in hell? like i said my faith was to be tested and i know who Jesus is. you are right he does not reside in hell however as almighty God who are we to say he will not be there to protect us if we visit it? that said i am done debating about this as it is not going to help either side Col 1:15 He (Jesus Christ) is the image of the invisible God. So you did not see and/or meet with God the Father in a dream or otherwise. If you are in error here, how much more of your experiences are also wrong. Hades is already described in Luke 16:19-31. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire-heart Posted March 6, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 93 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 386 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 104 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/02/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/20/1991 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 First of all, Jesus is in Heaven preparing a place for us. He is not in hell. No one occupies the Lake of Fire yet. Secondly, you did not meet with God or see Him. In Christ Montana Marv i dont mind if you dont believe me in my experience but saying i did not meet him? how would you know who i have encountered or not? just because we met in hell? like i said my faith was to be tested and i know who Jesus is. you are right he does not reside in hell however as almighty God who are we to say he will not be there to protect us if we visit it? that said i am done debating about this as it is not going to help either side Col 1:15 He (Jesus Christ) is the image of the invisible God. So you did not see and/or meet with God the Father in a dream or otherwise. If you are in error here, how much more of your experiences are also wrong. Hades is already described in Luke 16:19-31. In Christ Montana Marv God the father is invisible i know because i met him twice. i could not see his face nor a physical body but he was in the form of a spirit. its difficult to explain- even though i could not see his physical features i could see his spirit. Jesus on the other hand does have physical features and you can if he allows it see him and touch him. you assume what i have or havent seen by your own belief and thinking how many times in scripture have ppl seen jesus in a vision or something? tons. and even though some of it didnt exactly make sense there were biblical facts in it such as the lake of fire the unquechable thirst and the fact that when i was in danger Jesus protected and saved me because i trusted in him and called out his name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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