Who do these dreams and visions come from?

[Izzel]

Izzel you say you know 100% its not from God yet how can you prove this and more over how are you so sure? because it sounds much more of your own opinion and logic than a fact none of the scripture you posted proved squat and wasnt even relavant to the dream itself and then you say the rapture is a lie even though Jesus even clearly spoke of it? do you recal this teaching?  mathew 24:39-41 two men will be in the field one will be taken and the other left. two woman will be grinding with a hand mill one will be taken the other left.

do you know why one was taken and the other left? ones heart was right with god the other wasnt. that scripture alone proves the rapture but jesus coninues on with it but you need to read it for yourself

The Lord Jesus Christ is coming back as a thief in the night

  

   The New Testament has many passages that compare the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ with the unexpected house break-in of the thief at night.  Those who teach the Secret Rapture say the Lord Jesus Christ will come as a thief in the night to snatch away true believers while others are asleep. 

 

Matthew 24:42-43   Our Lord said, “Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.  But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken in.”    These verses say nothing about the secret rapture, but only indicate Jesus will return like the thief who would come at an unknown and unexpected time.  The warning is for Christians to be ready at all times.

 

   1 Thessalonians 5:2   The apostle Paul wrote: “For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.” This verse does not mean that believers would be raptured because if you read two verses below Paul gave the explanation.  “But you, brethren, are not in darkness so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.” (1 Thes. 5:4) It says nothing about a secret rapture.  Again, the message here is NOT that Jesus' coming will be secret, but that it will occur at a time when most will not expect it, therefore we must WATCH!

 

2 Peter 3:10   Here is a scriptural verse that completely destroys the secret rapture theory.  “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.”  How can there be a secret rapture when “the heavens will pass away with a great noise”?

 

Revelation 3:3   The Lord Jesus Christ said: “Remember therefore how you have received and heard:  hold fast and repent.  Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.”       There is nothing in this verse that even vaguely suggests that Christians will be raptured secretly.  Here is an instruction for them to watch because nobody knows when Jesus will be returning.

 

[fire-heart]

 

Izzel you say you know 100% its not from God yet how can you prove this and more over how are you so sure? because it sounds much more of your own opinion and logic than a fact none of the scripture you posted proved squat and wasnt even relavant to the dream itself and then you say the rapture is a lie even though Jesus even clearly spoke of it? do you recal this teaching?  mathew 24:39-41 two men will be in the field one will be taken and the other left. two woman will be grinding with a hand mill one will be taken the other left.

do you know why one was taken and the other left? ones heart was right with god the other wasnt. that scripture alone proves the rapture but jesus coninues on with it but you need to read it for yourself

The vereses I quoted had  to do with where do dreams and visions come from

nothing to do with the rapture, you are so set on approving the rapture that you did not see why I qouted the verses as to the OP 

 

Jesus only has one second coming not three comings and the church would go through the tribulation 

 

who ever said the rapture was his second coming? i believe the bible refers the rapture as us caught up to meet with him in the clouds not him coming down and taking us. the clouds or heveans are where he resides

[Izzel]

Izzel you say you know 100% its not from God yet how can you prove this and more over how are you so sure? because it sounds much more of your own opinion and logic than a fact none of the scripture you posted proved squat and wasnt even relavant to the dream itself and then you say the rapture is a lie even though Jesus even clearly spoke of it? do you recal this teaching?  mathew 24:39-41 two men will be in the field one will be taken and the other left. two woman will be grinding with a hand mill one will be taken the other left.

do you know why one was taken and the other left? ones heart was right with god the other wasnt. that scripture alone proves the rapture but jesus coninues on with it but you need to read it for yoursel

you should watch the movie left behind to fully understand what the rapture teaching is all about 

[Izzel]

 

 

Izzel you say you know 100% its not from God yet how can you prove this and more over how are you so sure? because it sounds much more of your own opinion and logic than a fact none of the scripture you posted proved squat and wasnt even relavant to the dream itself and then you say the rapture is a lie even though Jesus even clearly spoke of it? do you recal this teaching?  mathew 24:39-41 two men will be in the field one will be taken and the other left. two woman will be grinding with a hand mill one will be taken the other left.

do you know why one was taken and the other left? ones heart was right with god the other wasnt. that scripture alone proves the rapture but jesus coninues on with it but you need to read it for yourself

The vereses I quoted had  to do with where do dreams and visions come from

nothing to do with the rapture, you are so set on approving the rapture that you did not see why I qouted the verses as to the OP 

 

Jesus only has one second coming not three comings and the church would go through the tribulation 

 

who ever said the rapture was his second coming? i believe the bible refers the rapture as us caught up to meet with him in the clouds not him coming down and taking us. the clouds or heveans are where he resides

 

Where will the saints be when we are caught up ?

 

At what time are the saints caught up ? After or before the tribulation ?

[Izzel]

 

 

 

I pray I dont experence it because the rapture is a lie my friend be not decieved lets not derail the thread okayy 

 

Whatever you say Izzle. Peace.

 

Don't take him too seriously DR.He believes what he wants to believe and you have your beliefs.If a person thinks that they are the only one who is right...then they have a problem.

 

 

Thank you bopeep. Sometimes I think this person is a troll the way he posts and what he says, but the jury is still out. Anyways, 1 Thess 4:17. With love, David.

 

just because i dont believe in your fantasy rapture you call me a troll , that is not christian like 

 

we all would agree and disagree at times 

 

I believe that the rapture is a big fat lie created for false security 

 

You believe it is true lets not go to name calling okay 

 

peace 

[Izzel]

 

Izzel you say you know 100% its not from God yet how can you prove this and more over how are you so sure? because it sounds much more of your own opinion and logic than a fact none of the scripture you posted proved squat and wasnt even relavant to the dream itself and then you say the rapture is a lie even though Jesus even clearly spoke of it? do you recal this teaching?  mathew 24:39-41 two men will be in the field one will be taken and the other left. two woman will be grinding with a hand mill one will be taken the other left.

do you know why one was taken and the other left? ones heart was right with god the other wasnt. that scripture alone proves the rapture but jesus coninues on with it but you need to read it for yourself

Taken in judgment.  Those who are left enter the Millennial Kingdom.  In the Olivet Discourse & in Mat 24, there is no Church & no Rapture.

 

Zechariah 14:16-17

King James Version (KJV)

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, theLord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth untoJerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

[Guest DRS81]

Ignoring posters can be healthy too. Blessings. (ahem)

[fire-heart]

 

 

 

Izzel you say you know 100% its not from God yet how can you prove this and more over how are you so sure? because it sounds much more of your own opinion and logic than a fact none of the scripture you posted proved squat and wasnt even relavant to the dream itself and then you say the rapture is a lie even though Jesus even clearly spoke of it? do you recal this teaching?  mathew 24:39-41 two men will be in the field one will be taken and the other left. two woman will be grinding with a hand mill one will be taken the other left.

do you know why one was taken and the other left? ones heart was right with god the other wasnt. that scripture alone proves the rapture but jesus coninues on with it but you need to read it for yourself

The vereses I quoted had  to do with where do dreams and visions come from

nothing to do with the rapture, you are so set on approving the rapture that you did not see why I qouted the verses as to the OP 

 

Jesus only has one second coming not three comings and the church would go through the tribulation 

 

who ever said the rapture was his second coming? i believe the bible refers the rapture as us caught up to meet with him in the clouds not him coming down and taking us. the clouds or heveans are where he resides

 

Where will the saints be when we are caught up ?

 

At what time are the saints caught up ? After or before the tribulation ?

 

the saints whose hearts are right with God will be caught up to be with Jesus. in the tribulation ppl will come to God and be persucuted and beheaded. but i am not going to be debating about the timing of the rapture as the whole pre- mid- and post tribulation rapture is not a debate that ever comes to a conclusion. this is one of the traps the devil loves to use sitting there laughing at us because we are consumed by the debate refusing to give an inch in our beliefs.

if you wish to do this fine but i will take no part of it

[Izzel]

The rapture doctrine states that when the Church is raptured into heaven the Jews will be left behind to face the Antichrist during the Great Tribulation which lasts seven years

 

“Really!”   I turned to Matthew 24:29-31 and showed them what it says:

 

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” (Mt. 24:29-31)

 

Here is a clear statement from our Lord Jesus Christ who said that He will be coming “immediately after the tribulation” and not before, so how can Christians be with Him in Heaven during the Great Tribulation?

[EnochBethany]

1 Thes 4:17 "harpagesometha = rapiemur = we shall be raptured (caught up).

The Rapture is the catch-up of 1 Thes 4:17, a Bible fact.

 

Thou sayest:

"I believe that the saint would be caught up at Jesus second coming and not before

Those that teach the rapture teach that the saints would be taken away secretly the bible does not say that"

 

OK, That is a horse of a different color!

While the rapture is an indisputable Bible fact,

Chrs disagree on its timing, relation to the Trib, id or non-id w/ 2nd coming to earth. See BibleAndTheology.com for a defense of pre-Trib -- & much ink is spilled debating it on the internet.

 

The "secretly" issue, IMHO, is irrelevant.  One might rate it on a scale of 0-10 as to how visible or invisible it is.  I don't know scripture to prove the degree of visibility. 

 

1 Thes 4 end = Rapture

2 Thes 5 start = Day of Lord / Trib.

 

Pre-Trib is for me the best way I know to reconcile all the scripture, the imminence (no signs needed) of the Rapture (Jas 5), the literalness of Dan's 70th week (like the literalness of the first 69 weeks).

 

In 2 Thes 2 the apostasia has to precede the Day of the Lord (a time of judgment/trouble in the Bible).  Apostasia means "departure."  Probably most readers, using translations that do not say "departure," take it to mean a religious departure, apostasy, in English.  However, based on the Liddell & Scott Greek Lexicon, the big grand daddy comprehensive lexicon of ancient Greek, & the usage in the Dormition of Mary, apostasia can mean a literal departure, as in the Rapture.

 

It doesn't bother me that other Chrs don't see it the way I do; it does bother me if someone posts, "The Rapture is a lie," or you are a heretic for disagreeing on a detail of eschatology. 

 

It put it to you that however you may put it all together, the important thing is to expect the Return of Christ at any time -- the judge is at the doors!  But don't go setting dates or fanaticizing over the latest newspaper headline:  "Earthquake hits Alaska!"

 

Why bumgolly, we are in Mat 24's signs!  rubbish.