The_Patriot21 Posted March 8, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,715 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,535 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted March 8, 2014 looking my argument is they shouldnt have to give up their tax exempt status number one, number 2 my pastor actively spoke against the powers that got elected last election-and we didn't lose our tax exempt status. So am I arguing for my church to do so? not at all. my pastor isnt afraid to speak up against things that are wrong-regardless of the consequences. So in reality theres no need-we are politically active, just in my area its pretty conservative wyoming actually recognizes freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest P_W Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Had there been firearms during this period in history, do you suppose Jesus would have told them to carry a sidearm? Do you think He would have said to buy one instead of a sword? The sword would not have counted as "transgressor", it is the manner in which it was used. IMHO Peace, Prair Luke 22:36-38 New American Standard Bible (NASB) 36 And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, ‘And He was numbered with transgressors’; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.” 38 They said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted March 8, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,715 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,535 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted March 8, 2014 the sword was the sidearm of the day prair. the sword in Jesus time was the gun of today-it was what was used to protect ones home or to go to war. so you bring forward a very good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookingForAnswers Posted March 8, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,033 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 67 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 8, 2014 looking my argument is they shouldnt have to give up their tax exempt status number one, number 2 my pastor actively spoke against the powers that got elected last election-and we didn't lose our tax exempt status. So am I arguing for my church to do so? not at all. my pastor isnt afraid to speak up against things that are wrong-regardless of the consequences. So in reality theres no need-we are politically active, just in my area its pretty conservative wyoming actually recognizes freedom of religion and freedom of speech. When the church accepts its tax exempt status it does so by agreeing to certain restrictions on its actions. If they choose to ignore this agreement and still maintain their tax exempt status they are being dishonest, which seems a very poor way to spread the Gospel of Christ. Purposefully breaking an agreement is no way for a church to operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted March 8, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,715 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,535 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted March 8, 2014 actually looking, according to the IRS the only thing that a church can do to lose its tax exempt status, is to actually endorse a candidate. It does not say that they cannot say, speak up on political issues such as gun control and gay marriage, that is actually hyperbole and a scare tactic, not much more. And raffling off a rifle does not violate the law, nor does speaking up on gay marriage or gun rights or other political issues. So please, actually read the law before speaking out against churches. As far as the campaigning thing, yes that is the law, yes churches have to agree to it to be tax exempt, however, that doesn't make that law right-in my opinion it violates the churches first amendment rights. period. some more reading on what churches can and cannot do http://aclj.org/churches-organizations-/political-speech-non-profit-tax-issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted March 8, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Guns, politics and church in the same thread, no wonder why the personal attacks are happening. Please stop it, we have had two reports so far. Any more personal stuff and we ban the member from the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 8, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 8, 2014 and realistically first off, guns arnt the number 1 tool of murder in the US-more people are murdered with knives then guns, yet no ones calling for them to be banned. Do you have a link to this information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 8, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Threatening churches with the removal of tax exemption is just a way for government to control them. Many in government know what the churches are all about and they know that many governmental laws enacted go against God's laws. What we must be concerned with is not just that the power of the church to speak is threatened, but that soon it will be considered a hate crime to even quote or read certain parts of the Bible. You made a lot of good points in your post, PrairWarur, but this point here was a thought that had entered my head as well. For the state to dictate what a church can and cannot preach on in order to not have to pay tax on their income (free-will offerings and tithes), is a violation of the 1st amendment: "Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech," Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted March 8, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,715 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,535 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted March 8, 2014 looking at my sources I did misspeak on the knife thing, I do apologize, but the fact is more people do die from drunk driving related incidents then firearms-and if you ask me that is still murder. and realistically, assuming you do manage to ban all guns in the US even from the criminals, (which is actually impossible) it wont stop murders, it just means people will find other ways to kill each other. Mankind is a creative species, and what they are most creative in is killing each other. it is a sad state of affairs. Some interesting facts the assault weapons ban in 1994 went into effect had no real change in ammount of murders, though in 97 it started dropping. It did continuously drop until the ban was lifted in 2010, but if the ban was the cause then we would have seen an increase in murders after-instead we see a pretty steady decrease since then-even though "assault" rifles were no longer banned. In fact, 2011 had the lowest number of murders since 1965 (8,773 in 1965 verses 12,664 in 2011 22,084 in 1994) So if the murder rate is dropping when the gun ownership rate is skyrocketing, it means chances are the guns arnt the cause. Also, the percentage of gun related homicides, is about the same since 1965 with only a 1-2% difference, mainly because they are the easiest way to kill someone, but its not the only way and removing them won't take away homicde-it will just increase the amount of people killed with no way to protect themselves and an increase in other weapons. Murder victims by weapon: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004888.html All gun related deaths (homicde, suicide and accident) verses motor vehicle related accidents (all included, murder, suicde, DUI, and accidents) https://patriotpost.us/commentary/16595 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookingForAnswers Posted March 8, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,033 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 67 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 8, 2014 Threatening churches with the removal of tax exemption is just a way for government to control them. Many in government know what the churches are all about and they know that many governmental laws enacted go against God's laws. What we must be concerned with is not just that the power of the church to speak is threatened, but that soon it will be considered a hate crime to even quote or read certain parts of the Bible. You made a lot of good points in your post, PrairWarur, but this point here was a thought that had entered my head as well. For the state to dictate what a church can and cannot preach on in order to not have to pay tax on their income (free-will offerings and tithes), is a violation of the 1st amendment: "Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech," There is no constitutional guaranty of tax exempt status, paying taxes does not in any way hinder practice of religion. I am not sure of the reasoning behind churches being given tax exempt status but it is not something that should be taken for granted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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