THE RESTRAINER

[ARGOSY]

Argosy

 

One thing you fail to see in 2 Thes 2 is:  Who is holding back the secret power of lawlessness which is already at work here in the 1st Century.  The Restrainer is.  Lawlessness is already here, what/who is holding back this current lawlessness from becoming full blown.  Satan is not holding his lawlessness back, but the Restrainer is (the Holy Spirit).  The fight is between flesh and spirit.  This is an on going fight.  If Satan holds back Satan his kingdom is divided.

 

You are the first person I have heard to bring up this very strange theory of Satan being the restrainer.  I have never heard of any sermons on this point of view.  It is a false teaching you have brought up.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Montana Marv,

I don't fail to see that the lawlessness is already there. In actual fact that is central to my point and I have already acknowledged this repeatedly in this thread. The withholder is clearly withholding the secret, withholding the revealing. The lawlessness and evil activity has been going on for hundreds of years, the bible says the spirit of antichrist was already in the world during biblical times:

1 John 4:3

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

This keeping evil secrets is more an activity of an evil entity than the activity of a good entity. Evil keeps evil secret. Evil prevents evil from being exposed. Its a good entity (the church) that overcomes Satan, causing Satan to come crashing down to earth for 3.5 years of wrath (Rev 12). This is when the evil is exposed and the antichrist is revealed.

I will keep quoting the scripture, because faith comes from the word: 2 Thess 2: 7-8

For the MYSTERY of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be REVEALED, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

As you say, the wicked was already there. But it was kept a mystery/secret. When the withholder of the mystery/secret is removed, then the wickedness is revealed. This cannot be the Holy Spirit because the church is only gathered after the revealing of the antichrist according to verse 1-3. So we have to find another entity that keeps evil secrets, the Holy Spirit is not a good fit because of context and timing.

[Donibm]

2 Thessalonians 2:  Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie

 

Everyone seems to misunderstand this chapter. This is a really really obvious contrast between a revealing ... and the revealing being held back. The restrainer (the one who holds back) is a keeper of secrets, one who hides truth. He is holding back the revealing, he is evil, and stops truth being exposed.

 

Some people think the restrainer is good, and is holding back evil....this is not true! Read carefully he is holding back the secret power from being revealed. 

 

 

 

Revelation 12 also talks of a sudden removal of an evil entity followed by  a short period of deception and wrath:

the accuser of our brothers and sisters,

    who accuses them before our God day and night,

    has been hurled down.

11 They triumphed over him

    by the blood of the Lamb

    and by the word of their testimony;

they did not love their lives so much

    as to shrink from death.

12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens

    and you who dwell in them!

But woe to the earth and the sea,

    because the devil has gone down to you!

He is filled with fury,

    because he knows that his time is short.

 

The one who holds back the revealing of the antichrist is Satan/our accuser/the dragon of Revelation 12. When he is suddenly removed from heaven there will be great wrath and deception on earth for 3.5 years.

 

Are you certain that "everyone" misunderstands?  or maybe its just you?

 

1)

Clearly, He who restrains is the Holy Spirit.  I think all would agree.

 

2)

The FUNCTION of the Spirit is to restrains SIN.  He does not "hide truth."

 

He is the conscious, pricking all men against their own sins.  Telling us right from wrong.

 

He reminds us of the words of Jesus.

 

He is the One in Psalm 2 who says "Kiss [worship] the Son"  He has always functioned as the One to glorify the Son, not Himself.  Just as the Son has glorified the Father.  All three are seen in Psalm 2.

 

He calls men to repentance for NONE can repent, truly, without His call.  Evidenced in Revelation that mankind will not repent.  Why not?  Because the Spirit is "taken out of the way."  THREE TIMEs Revelation shows that mankind will not repent.  Three times.  No Spirit to call means no repentance.  it's as simple that that.

 

We clearly see the Spirit and the Church in Revelation, prior to the Tribulation, but both are missing once the Tribulation begins.

 

We clearly also can see that MANKIND are lawless in Revelation.  Not the antichrist alone.  Worst than the days of Noah, prior to no law existing, where men did as they saw fit.  Again, when the Spirit is removed, men will plunge into Lawlessness because the Spirit is no longer around to .... RESTRAIN.

 

 

 

John 16 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

 

So... if that is what He does when He comes, what will happen when He leaves?  Maybe some of you had better ask yourself THAT question.

 

The Spirit has always been around.  Adam.  Noah.  Abraham.  King David.  Prophets.  The only difference is, He was given specifically a higher purpose and closer intimacy with the Bride of Christ.  But He has ALWAYS been around to restrain evil.

 

 

 

Seems to me that the greater concern should be on what preceeds this - the great falling away (from Truth and Doctrine) and not all these odd and new winds of doctrine that are sprining up by all these "Internet want to be pastors"

 

I'm only calling a spade a spade.

 

"Woe to you scribes and pharisees"

 

SCRIBE - those who WRITE lies and Biblical distortions receive the same punishment, reproof and damnation as those who speak it.

 

 

... be careful with the Word of God.  It is not some novel to be messed around with.

[ARGOSY]

 

 

 

Are you certain that "everyone" misunderstands?  or maybe its just you?

 

1)

Clearly, He who restrains is the Holy Spirit.  I think all would agree.

 

 

 

I don't believe its the Holy Spirit for two reasons.

 

1) The lawlessness is already there, the context is a contrast between secretiveness and a great revealing. Its a fallacy that lawlessness is being held back, the verse is clear the lawlessness is already there. Its the secretiveness that is being held back from being revealed. Evil keeps secrets, good exposes the truth. I don't believe the Holy Spirit suits the role of keeping secrets:

 

the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.  And then the lawless one will be revealed

 

2) Our gathering (the rapture) to Jesus only occurs after the antichrist is revealed, the restrainer however leaves just before the antichrist is revealed.  They cannot be the same moment:

Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being GATHERED to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed

[Spock]

If Satan holds back Satan, his kingdom is divided. In ChristMontana Marv

Exactly! My emphasis is that satan is holding back the exposure of the antichrist. Its got absolutely nothing to do with Satan holding back Satan, and everything to do with Stan trying to keep a secret for as long as possible. I don't know where you get "Satan holds back Satan" from my opening post.

Sorry to get in on this late, but I'm in now.

I'm not feeling your interpretation here of satan holding back the antichrist. Not one bit my brother. Hmmmm

[Spock]

The "Restrainer", the Holy Spirit, restrains not only the appearance of the anti-Christ but also the intentions of Satan in order to protect the Church. At the Rapture (which I guess I don't know what I know) the Holy Spirit will no longer indwell everyone who is a member of the Church as a guatantee of our salvation because the Church will be gone, any new believer will not be a member of the Church (the Church will have been Raptured) but the Holy Spirit will return to His pre-Christ role of coming upon individual believers. Since the Temple will be rebuilt and sacrifice renewed, each person will be required to maintain their own salvation. Both throught faith in Christ and obedience to the Law. They will no longer have the protection that the Church has as a guarantee of our salvation. But the Holy Spirit will still be doing It's work. Otherwise, no one would be saved after the Rapture.

Likewise, I am not feeling this interpretation-that the Holy Spirit is restraining the antichrist from coming on the scene.

The HS has been here for 2000 years and has allowed a lot of "garbage" in, in other words, has not restrained much evil since Christ. I don't see why you would think the HS is the one restraining the rise of the ac when he didn't restrain evil people like hitler, Stalin, Hussein, Pot, and on and on.

I think the pre trib camp has created this doctrine to support their agenda, the church will be removed entirely before Daniels 70th week. I see no scriptural basis to hang your hat on the HS restraining the ac except conjecture.

Maybe I'm misguided in this, but I don't think so. Sorry pre tribbers, no offense intended. You know I love you guys just as much as I love the post tribbers, even though I think they are misguided too.

[Spock]

Any chance the restrainer could be ......

Michael the angel??

Daniel 12:

At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince who stands for the children of your people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone who shall be found written in the book.

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

==================================================================

 

Any chance the restrainer could be ......

 

Michael the angel??

 

 

No and we've already gone over this.....

 

1st.  Michael is a Military Commander/ Warrior always in Defense of Israel.  And Daniel tells you this with " the great prince who stands for the children of your people". 

 

Who's Daniel's People? ...........Israel.

 

2nd.  How is Daniel referring to "The Church" when the mystery was "Hid" throughout History until Paul revealed it?

 

Also, Please show in Scripture Michael in reference to "The Church" ?

 

 

The HS has been here for 2000 years and has allowed a lot of "garbage" in, in other words, has not restrained much evil since Christ.

 

What's your Benchmark of "garbage" to tell whether there has been "alot" in the past 2000 years?  "Alot" as compared to what?

 

 

I don't see why you would think the HS is the one restraining the rise of the ac when he didn't restrain evil people like hitler, Stalin, Hussein, Pot, and on and on.

 

How do all of these Combined compare with The Great Tribulation/Revelation?

 

The Holocaust killed 1 out of 3 Jews.  The Great Tribulation 2 out of 3....

 

(Zechariah 13:8-9) "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.  {9} And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God."

 

 

I think the pre trib camp has created this doctrine to support their agenda, the church will be removed entirely before Daniels 70th week. I see no scriptural basis to hang your hat on the HS restraining the ac except conjecture.

 

Created it, eh?

 

GOD is the "only" one who can restrain satan.....he was "the anointed Cherub that covereth", which implies he was in charge of all the Angels, and "full of wisdom" (See Ez 28)

 

Also The Book of JOB is the perfect example of this concept.

 

 

Maybe I'm misguided in this, but I don't think so.

 

Try comparing Scripture with Scripture.

 

 

Sorry pre tribbers, no offense intended.

 

None taken

[ARGOSY]

 

 

If Satan holds back Satan, his kingdom is divided. In ChristMontana Marv

Exactly! My emphasis is that satan is holding back the exposure of the antichrist. Its got absolutely nothing to do with Satan holding back Satan, and everything to do with Stan trying to keep a secret for as long as possible. I don't know where you get "Satan holds back Satan" from my opening post.

Sorry to get in on this late, but I'm in now.

I'm not feeling your interpretation here of satan holding back the antichrist. Not one bit my brother. Hmmmm

 

 

 

We all have different views. Would you tend to trust the bible ... or your feelings?  I believe a biblical argument is the best for these forums, not feelings based impressions. Is there anything within the verses themselves that I am interpreting incorrectly, if not its entirely possible your "feelings" are based on preconceived impressions. I believe Satan holds back his exposure.   The chapter is a contrast between secretiveness and a revealing:

For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.  And then the lawless one will be revealed

[Spock]

 

 

 

If Satan holds back Satan, his kingdom is divided. In ChristMontana Marv

Exactly! My emphasis is that satan is holding back the exposure of the antichrist. Its got absolutely nothing to do with Satan holding back Satan, and everything to do with Stan trying to keep a secret for as long as possible. I don't know where you get "Satan holds back Satan" from my opening post.

Sorry to get in on this late, but I'm in now.

I'm not feeling your interpretation here of satan holding back the antichrist. Not one bit my brother. Hmmmm

 

 

 

We all have different views. Would you tend to trust the bible ... or your feelings?  I believe a biblical argument is the best for these forums, not feelings based impressions. Is there anything within the verses themselves that I am interpreting incorrectly, if not its entirely possible your "feelings" are based on preconceived impressions. I believe Satan holds back his exposure.   The chapter is a contrast between secretiveness and a revealing:

For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.  And then the lawless one will be revealed

 

 

 

I agree, my feelings by them self don't mean that much, but when based on 30 years of research and reading God's word, then they mean something.

 

I didn't bother going into any explanation because I saw many have already been given to you. If you aren't convinced with what you read, you won't be convinced with what I write, so I didn't think it necessary to be superfluous on this discussion.

[ARGOSY]

 

 

 

 

If Satan holds back Satan, his kingdom is divided. In ChristMontana Marv

Exactly! My emphasis is that satan is holding back the exposure of the antichrist. Its got absolutely nothing to do with Satan holding back Satan, and everything to do with Stan trying to keep a secret for as long as possible. I don't know where you get "Satan holds back Satan" from my opening post.

Sorry to get in on this late, but I'm in now.

I'm not feeling your interpretation here of satan holding back the antichrist. Not one bit my brother. Hmmmm

 

 

 

We all have different views. Would you tend to trust the bible ... or your feelings?  I believe a biblical argument is the best for these forums, not feelings based impressions. Is there anything within the verses themselves that I am interpreting incorrectly, if not its entirely possible your "feelings" are based on preconceived impressions. I believe Satan holds back his exposure.   The chapter is a contrast between secretiveness and a revealing:

For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.  And then the lawless one will be revealed

 

 

 

I agree, my feelings by them self don't mean that much, but when based on 30 years of research and reading God's word, then they mean something.

 

I didn't bother going into any explanation because I saw many have already been given to you. If you aren't convinced with what you read, you won't be convinced with what I write, so I didn't think it necessary to be superfluous on this discussion.

 

 

 

In these debates, I try to have a good biblical answer for every point discussed. If I am unable to return with a good answer, then its time to reconsider. I cant recall any good points here. Does my view contradict text, context, Greek, order of events?  

 

In Rev 12, isn't Satan removed from heaven 3.5 years before the second coming? This results in 3.5 years of wrath on earth. This is the exact same moment the antichrist comes to power for 42 months according to Rev 13. And this is when the restrainer is removed according to 2 thess 2.   I think the dispensational view may confuse the order of events, that is why people are not seeing that Satan's fall is the same moment as the antichrist's revealing.