Differentiating Biblical Truth, Personal Convictions, & Personal P

[GoldenEagle]

A. Scriptural doctrine: Drinking alcohol can be medicinal as when Paul advised Timothy to drink a little wine for his stomach. We use it in caugh medicine as well as in flavorings like vanilla. The Jewish culture did not prohibit alcohol.

Christians are forbidden to get drunk, especially since such drunken orgies and reveling were such a part of the Greco-Roman cultures as it has been a part of ours. Christians are to be set apart from the world around us.

B. Conviction: But it is definitely wrong for alcoholics to drink, it is not good for diabetics, and it is not a good example for teen agers or young believers who might use it as an excuse for excessive drinking. So out of love it is best not to drink alcohol under circumstances that cause others to stumble. It comes under the all things are lawful but not all things are expedient category. However, no one should be condemned for doing so when their hearts don't condemn them. They answer to God as do we, so we have no right to stand in judgement of each other. That is what makes it a personal conviction.

C. Preference: Most of us have no desire to get drunk or even to have a drink very often. Some churches use alcoholic wine in communion but mine prefers not to do so.

I sometimes use some alcohol to control caughing when I am extremely sick.

A. Doctrine: Women should dress modestly. Christians do not answer to Jewish civil or ceremonial law.

B. Conviction: Women may wear modest clothing created for women.

C. Preference: I prefer to wear loose fitting clothing: blouses that are not revealing and loose fitting slacks or jeans.

I pretty much agree with you sister.

Some small changes in bold if I may to the modesty section:

 

A. Doctrine: People should dress modestly. Christians do not answer to Jewish civil or ceremonial law. People are responsible for their thoughts and actions as individuals.

B. Conviction: Women may wear modest clothing created for women. Men may wear modest clothing created for men.

C. Preference: I prefer to wear loose fitting clothing: blouses that are not revealing and loose fitting slacks or jeans.

 

 

I guess for some reason when we talk about modesty often people want to talk about women and forget about the men in the equation. What do you think sister?

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

@ Shiloh

I guess the focus of this discussion originated with the discussion of absolute truth in our church small group. I think this is exactly what you’ve mentioned brother.

I agree the basics of Christian unity is focused on Jesus Christ, the inerrancy/authority of Scripture, the nature of God, the salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone.

What I was trying to get at was thinking in terms of evaluating whatever we’re discussing understanding Biblical truth and separating it from our own personal convictions or preferences.  Particularly not imposing our own convictions or preferences on others.

As to the specifics of alcohol consumption…  It was just an example that I thought many people could agree upon. The reason why we ask the question is because some would try to impose their personal conviction (take Willamina’s example of alcoholics not drinking… probably a good idea) or personal preference (see Sheniy’s example at the college and her roommates in post #19) of others that they not drink. And somehow spin that off as Biblical truth. Yet nowhere in the Bible are we told not to consume alcohol. We are told not to partake in orgies and get drunk.

I do agree that whatever we do we should honor God. I think that’s the gist of “protecting at all costs, my relationship with God” you mentioned.

Question: How does drinking alcohol say in moderation (we do so on my wife’s birthday just the two of us) sacrifice my relationship with God?  

I think this is probably a good perspective:
 

Two extremes must be avoided as we decide what is acceptable behavior and what is not.

 

Legalism says we make a list of rules and conform to the rules. Then, we attempt to impose our personal convictions as normative for others.

 

Libertinism (spelling? lol) says, “Since I’m free in Christ and the Bible forbids none of these things specifically, then I’ll feel free to do any and/or all of them!”

 

From my perspective the Indisputables are:

1. The Bible is the Word of God.
2. Jesus is 100% God and 100% man (the hypostatic union).
3. Jesus was virgin born.
4. Jesus died a substitutionary death on the cross to pay the penalty for our sin.
5. The bodily resurrection guaranteed that Christ’s mission was fulfilled.
6. Forgiveness of sin and salvation come solely by God’s grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
7. God establishes an eternal relationship with those who personally receive Him as Savior and Lord.

 

Source
 

 

 

Thanks for the well thought out post. Challenging as always. You are loved. God bless brother.

 

In Christ,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

Blessings Golden Eagle

    Oh my Brother in Christ,what can I say? You always take the time to help anyone understand what you share with us ,we only need ask....thank you Brother()   once again,I cannot agree with you more.Praise & Glory to God!

                                                                                                                       With love in Christ,Kwik

 

If anything is good it is Christ in us. This may surprise you (or it may not) but I'm not a very patient person at times lol. This (differentiating Biblical truth from personal conviction or preference) is something that I've been trying to sort through. I figured Worthy was a good place to get feedback and grow together. You are loved sister.

 

In Christ,

GE

[Chris.]

I think our culture we live in influences largely or convictions of spiritual truth and often there is confusion between church doctrine, cultural norms and Jesus foundational basic teachings.

What is the difference between church doctrine and Jesus's basic foundational teachings?

God bless,

GE

To kids that are brought up in churches with laws like no dancing because it promotes promiscuity is a good example. Because they are taught it they might think it is a biblical truth or commandment when it is in fact a denominational difference . Edited May 28, 2014 by Chris.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

Question: How does drinking alcohol say in moderation (we do so on my wife’s birthday just the two of us) sacrifice my relationship with God?  

 

I am not saying that it does.  I am saying that the way we answer such questions need to be from an inward motivation to protect our relationship with God at all costs, rather than asking from a motivation of wanting see how much we can get away with or from a slavish obedience to a set of rules.

 

 

[GoldenEagle]

@ Sheniy

I think alcohol is a pretty easy topic to address. Now, if we were to approach end times doctrine (you mentioned relatives disagreeing on rapture lol), predestination/free will (Calvinism/Armenianism), abortion, homosexuality, or other harder issues this way (looking at Biblical truth, personal convictions, and personal preference) perhaps there would be more dialogue and less in-fighting in the Church. Yes there is absolute truth. But in some areas there may be good Biblical backing to more than one view. Why can’t we respect one another and agree to disagree on the non-essentials?

There’s also this prevailing attitude among some Christians that they can’t be friends with someone who disagrees with them.  I used to think this way. If I couldn’t agree 100% with people perhaps I didn’t need to be around them. But is that really the answer?

 

Of interest a friend called me a heretic and a false teacher recently for disagreeing with his interpretation of Scripture on tithing. Particularly when we discussed specific passages starting from the OT to the NT together and the Biblical evidence for his position (all Christians must tithe or give 10% of their income or be cursed) was rather weak.  He defriended me on Facebook and said he didn’t know if we could hang out together anymore. We’re having coffee this week to talk things over further and sort it all out.

 

Sometimes I wonder how much we’re interested in winning the argument and sacrificing the relationship. I wonder am I treating people as God’s work in progress or simply thumping them with the Bible?

 

Sorry I’m rambling… lol

 

Question: When you drank the alcohol (not knowing it was breaking the rules) were you an enrolled student at the Bible college (for the summer)? What happened?

 

I do agree that pride can be an issue. I pray God continually prunes me of my pride and helps me reach others for Christ in love and grace. I too want to be a better witness to the rest of the world.

I think you get the point of the thread and it’s encouraging. You are loved sister.  

In Christ,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

I think our culture we live in influences largely or convictions of spiritual truth and often there is confusion between church doctrine, cultural norms and Jesus foundational basic teachings.

What is the difference between church doctrine and Jesus's basic foundational teachings?

God bless,

GE

To kids that are brought up in churches with laws like no dancing because it promotes promiscuity is a good example. Because they are taught it they might think it is a biblical truth or commandment when it is in fact a denominational difference .

 

 

I see what you say. Okay let's take dancing then... Break it down for us.

What is the Biblical truth? What is the personal conviction? What the personal preference?

 

A. Biblical truth:

B. Personal Conviction:

C. Personal Preference:

God bless,

GE

[other one]

getting drunk is not what gets us in trouble.....   it's what we do when we are drunk that is the problem......

 

Noah got drunk and fell asleep naked and God didn't seem to say anything to him about that.....   it was the actions of his son that was condemned.

[Willa]

 

A. Scriptural doctrine: Drinking alcohol can be medicinal as when Paul advised Timothy to drink a little wine for his stomach. We use it in caugh medicine as well as in flavorings like vanilla. The Jewish culture did not prohibit alcohol.

Christians are forbidden to get drunk, especially since such drunken orgies and reveling were such a part of the Greco-Roman cultures as it has been a part of ours. Christians are to be set apart from the world around us.

B. Conviction: But it is definitely wrong for alcoholics to drink, it is not good for diabetics, and it is not a good example for teen agers or young believers who might use it as an excuse for excessive drinking. So out of love it is best not to drink alcohol under circumstances that cause others to stumble. It comes under the all things are lawful but not all things are expedient category. However, no one should be condemned for doing so when their hearts don't condemn them. They answer to God as do we, so we have no right to stand in judgement of each other. That is what makes it a personal conviction.

C. Preference: Most of us have no desire to get drunk or even to have a drink very often. Some churches use alcoholic wine in communion but mine prefers not to do so.

I sometimes use some alcohol to control caughing when I am extremely sick.

A. Doctrine: Women should dress modestly. Christians do not answer to Jewish civil or ceremonial law.

B. Conviction: Women may wear modest clothing created for women.

C. Preference: I prefer to wear loose fitting clothing: blouses that are not revealing and loose fitting slacks or jeans.

I pretty much agree with you sister.

Some small changes in bold if I may to the modesty section:

 

A. Doctrine: People should dress modestly. Christians do not answer to Jewish civil or ceremonial law. People are responsible for their thoughts and actions as individuals.

B. Conviction: Women may wear modest clothing created for women. Men may wear modest clothing created for men.

C. Preference: I prefer to wear loose fitting clothing: blouses that are not revealing and loose fitting slacks or jeans.

 

 

I guess for some reason when we talk about modesty often people want to talk about women and forget about the men in the equation. What do you think sister?

God bless,

GE

 

A. Doctrine:        1 Tim.2:9 only says that " the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing."   

 

It says nothing about men.

b.conviction:  Perhaps pride and vanity are the things that needs to be dealt with.  If a man is proud of his body, he should cover it up.  Women who are proud of their hair should cover it, and neither should dress in costly clothing which also lends to pride and vanity.  Moderation may be the key word;   we should desire to not call attention to ourselves.

c preference:   However I do find that I am embarrassed when I see a man in a speedo.  Even fig leaves are better than that.  

[other one]

 

 

A. Scriptural doctrine: Drinking alcohol can be medicinal as when Paul advised Timothy to drink a little wine for his stomach. We use it in caugh medicine as well as in flavorings like vanilla. The Jewish culture did not prohibit alcohol.

Christians are forbidden to get drunk, especially since such drunken orgies and reveling were such a part of the Greco-Roman cultures as it has been a part of ours. Christians are to be set apart from the world around us.

B. Conviction: But it is definitely wrong for alcoholics to drink, it is not good for diabetics, and it is not a good example for teen agers or young believers who might use it as an excuse for excessive drinking. So out of love it is best not to drink alcohol under circumstances that cause others to stumble. It comes under the all things are lawful but not all things are expedient category. However, no one should be condemned for doing so when their hearts don't condemn them. They answer to God as do we, so we have no right to stand in judgement of each other. That is what makes it a personal conviction.

C. Preference: Most of us have no desire to get drunk or even to have a drink very often. Some churches use alcoholic wine in communion but mine prefers not to do so.

I sometimes use some alcohol to control caughing when I am extremely sick.

A. Doctrine: Women should dress modestly. Christians do not answer to Jewish civil or ceremonial law.

B. Conviction: Women may wear modest clothing created for women.

C. Preference: I prefer to wear loose fitting clothing: blouses that are not revealing and loose fitting slacks or jeans.

I pretty much agree with you sister.

Some small changes in bold if I may to the modesty section:

 

A. Doctrine: People should dress modestly. Christians do not answer to Jewish civil or ceremonial law. People are responsible for their thoughts and actions as individuals.

B. Conviction: Women may wear modest clothing created for women. Men may wear modest clothing created for men.

C. Preference: I prefer to wear loose fitting clothing: blouses that are not revealing and loose fitting slacks or jeans.

 

 

I guess for some reason when we talk about modesty often people want to talk about women and forget about the men in the equation. What do you think sister?

God bless,

GE

 

A. Doctrine:        1 Tim.2:9 only says that " the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing."   

 

It says nothing about men.

b.conviction:  Perhaps pride and vanity are the things that needs to be dealt with.  If a man is proud of his body, he should cover it up.  Women who are proud of their hair should cover it, and neither should dress in costly clothing which also lends to pride and vanity.  Moderation may be the key word;   we should desire to not call attention to ourselves.

c preference:   However I do find that I am embarrassed when I see a man in a speedo.  Even fig leaves are better than that.  

 

 

The most alluring dress I have ever seen was an emerald green, full length pure silk dress that was split up to just over the knee....    no cleavage showing but it just flowed with her body when she walked......   i get goose bumps just thinking about it......   it was much more erotic than if she was wearing nothing...