Sevenseas Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2014 You may need to review the actual op...he is not even discussing what Christians believe concerning the rapture. Do review the op though...and notice the word satan I took the conclusion of the OP for my response relation to the following post 14 which states: The rapture = deception, deception = satan The rapture is a deception and is an invention from Satan as for the term Satans Rapture in a broader sense to take away....Satan certainly does take us away, he kills us, he murders us...so yes he can snatch us away well that clears it up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) ezekiel This is the final separation after the mill. When is Satan's work finally ended, at the time of his release from the pit, after the thousand years is over. First, collect the weeds (the weeds are not finished growing until the last rebellion after the mill). Then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn (New Jerusalem). In Christ Montana Marv In case you missed it, Christ associated the idea of 'harvest time' within that parable, and it includes the time of harvest of His saints. Matt 13:30 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. (KJV) He is using an agriculture association, which when you have gathered both the wheat and tares you then separate them, and then throw the tares in the fire, but take the wheat and stack it in the barn. In other words, you have to harvest (gather) both first. The end of this present world is the time of that harvest... Matt 13:39-43 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. (KJV) Just because there He did not mention His "thousand years" reign that will occur starting at His return, and then the "lake of fire" event, does not mean this parable in any way changes the event order of Rev.20. It appears you're not realizing a certain study requirement, especially when it comes to study of God's Holy Writ. Christ gave the event order of Rev.20 through Apostle John later than this parable in Jerusalem. Both still hold true, but usually when our Lord gives more info later it addressing details not given before, which is why we have to study all of God's Word so we don't miss any of the parts of a Message. If one part seems to leave out part of the order, and the other part fills that part in, we are to understand both parts at the same time, putting them together to get the whole picture. Edited June 22, 2014 by Salty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2014 Blessings ezekial Of course you do not have to reply to me if you do not want to but I would really like to know your answer to the question I keep repeating (redundantly)....."where did you hear about satan's rapture that you stated was everywhere ?" How does definition of the word "rapture" end up meaning deception which equates to satan? I would really like to understand how you have come to your conclusions as they are not found in the Scriptures ,for example.......how does the earth become a moon?Where do you see this? God Bless you With love in Christ,Kwik This might be new for some of you, but it shouldn't be. Satan has a type of 'rapture' also, which is what I think the OP is actually referring to. Remember like you've said, Greek harpazo is a word used for 'gathering'. So it does not always have to mean being caught up in the clouds like "caught up" in the KJV means. Our Lord Jesus gave us a warning reminder below about the tribulation events and remaining faithful to Him, waiting for His coming to gather us. Matt 24:28 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. (KJV) Jesus gave that above warning within the tribulation event timing of His Olivet Discourse, which is about events leading up to His return. It was given in between the contrast of how the pseudo-Christ comes vs. how He returns. (Matt.24:24-30; Matt.24:24 "false Christs" is actually the sole Greek word pseudochristos, which direct translation means a pseudo Christ). Hard to understand that meaning until we study the following Luke 17 Scripture: Luke 17:35-37 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together." (KJV) The above Luke 17 Scripture is very often used by the Pre-trib Rapture school to try and show a rapture of the Church by Christ prior to the tribulation. But, they intentionally leave out that very last 37th verse which is key to understanding those previous taken and left verses. In Luke 17:37 after our Lord Jesus just described the event of one taken, and the other left, His Apostles then asked Him just 'where' those "taken", would be taken to. Then our Lord Jesus gave the same Message of Matt.24:28, the difference being "carcase" in Matt.24 emphatically means a 'dead body', a corpse. So, wherever the dead corpse is, that's where the eagles will be gathered. Thing is, eagles as birds of prey kill their meat; they don't go after what is already dead. Yet back in Old Testament metaphors the idea of the eagle was used as a symbol for the king of Babylon and his empire. Our Heavenly Father also used the eagle as a symbol for His outstretched wings in protection over His people. Both of those ideas have to be weighed together, because in Deut.32:31 God revealed Himself as The True "Rock", and the devil as a false "rock" (i.e., "For their rock is not as our Rock ...."). If you know your Old Testament Bible, it helps explain why our Lord Jesus used the symbol of "eagles" there gathered where the carcase is instead of buzzards, because it's used as a deeper metaphor about the coming pseudo-Christ trying to play God to fool as many as will into believing he is Christ having returned (per the Matt.24:23-26 warning). Fleeing upon eagle's wings, or flying like an eagle has been covered by the Pre-trib Rapture schools in such a manner to imply gathering to Christ. Some of you may think this is just speculation, and not the meaning of our Lord Jesus' Message within that Luke 17:37 verse. You'd be making a huge mistake if you thought this is just speculation. And really all one need do, is simply read that last Luke 17:37 verse in association with those who are "taken" in the previous verses. Although many good brethren are deceived with thinking they will be raptured prior to the tribulation and our Lord Jesus' second coming on the last day of this world, it is apparent by this that the Antichrist is going to attempt to do a mimic of the gathering to Christ. The Antichrist and his servants are going to pass themselves off as symbolic good "eagles" instead of the buzzards they actually are. To be gathered ("taken") by them will indeed mean one is a dead 'carcase' in the spiritual death sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2014 Blessings inChrist..... When Jesus.."takes me away" with Him......in His Presence is all I need to know,,,,,whether Heaven will be the new earth,in the skies,,,,,,,we will be basking in His Glory,in the Presence of our Father..................does it matter?Not to me it does not.....God Bless you With love-in Christ Jesus,Kwik If you really want to know, look at the Ezekiel 40 through 48 chapters, especially the Ezekiel 47 chapter about God's River and the Tree of Life. Often there's more detail in the Old Testament prophets about a matter in The New Testament. God's people are to live upon this earth forever; we will plant vineyards and build houses (Isaiah). It will be cleansed earth, not like the one now, and it's going to be more beautiful than we could ever imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,194 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,471 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted June 22, 2014 there will be no more seas, darkness, sin, gold will be transparent as glass, and no matter the distance it will be instantaneous in travel,nothing ever hidden, and last but not least all things will be possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,138 Content Per Day: 4.62 Reputation: 27,818 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2014 Blessings Salty I see what you are inferring but I did not say "gathering"....I said"caught up",lifted up,plucked,catch(away,up) ref post #27 With love in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted June 23, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Online Share Posted June 23, 2014 Salty Here is a quote about eagles which is totally incorrect: So, wherever the dead corpse is, that's where the eagles will be gathered. Thing is, eagles as birds of prey kill their meat; they don't go after what is already dead. What I have put in bold is false information. Eagles do eat road kill. 2 day old to 5 day old road kill deer or elk are eaten all the time. In Montana I have seen a golden eagle on top of a carcass (road kill) with three bald eagles three or four feet away and ravens outside of the bald eagles. Each waiting their turn to feed. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted June 23, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 23, 2014 Salty Here is a quote about eagles which is totally incorrect: So, wherever the dead corpse is, that's where the eagles will be gathered. Thing is, eagles as birds of prey kill their meat; they don't go after what is already dead. What I have put in bold is false information. Eagles do eat road kill. 2 day old to 5 day old road kill deer or elk are eaten all the time. In Montana I have seen a golden eagle on top of a carcass (road kill) with three bald eagles three or four feet away and ravens outside of the bald eagles. Each waiting their turn to feed. In Christ Montana Marv Do a comparison between the eagle as a hunter bird that kills its prey vs. the vulture that does not kill its prey. Regardless, it still does not change the meaning our Lord Jesus gave with wheresoever the dead "carcase" is, that's where the eagles will be gathered together. There is no way to turn that into the positive sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted June 23, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 23, 2014 Blessings Salty I see what you are inferring but I did not say "gathering"....I said"caught up",lifted up,plucked,catch(away,up) ref post #27 With love in Christ,Kwik That wasn't the post you wrote that I was responding to. I responded to your post asking the question about the idea of a rapture (i.e., a fake one) by Satan. That's specifically what the last Luke 17 verse is about. I understand the meaning of Greek 'harpazo' per the Greek manuscripts, including it's meaning within the 2 Cor.12 event. In short, it's related to an event involving the "spiritual body" Apostle Paul taught in 1 Cor.15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted June 23, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,138 Content Per Day: 4.62 Reputation: 27,818 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 23, 2014 Blessings Salty Ahhh,that one-LOL I always get confused on these threads when we end up(all of us,not just you & I)having like 2 or 3 sub-topics interjected,I wasn't insinuating that you don't know the Greek text or the interpretation of"harpazo".....only referring to what I did say & in what post I said it for clarification AND for this specifically,that we do not end up in 2 different conversations & not referring to the same-LOL (It happens) Anyway ,thanks for your reply,I am glad we figured that out,lol.......Have a great day & God Bless you With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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