I like gays

[Johnlove]

 

 

John tells us that if one sins he or she is of the devil.  Can one who is of the devil be a Christian?  Remember a Christian walks as Jesus walked?

 

All I know is that we all were sinners saved by the blood of Christ. Sometimes we might fall and sin again. Then we repent and ask Jesus to forgive us again.  Sometimes I have days were I have to ask Jesus to forgive me 2 or 3 times in the same day. That's all I know.

 

A Christian is dead to sin.  No mater what your opinion is Scripture tells us that one who sins has never seen God nor knows God.  So if you sin you do not know God nor are you a Christian.  A Christian walks as Jesus walked.  That all is written in the Word of God.  One who says they are Christian and still sins is only an infant in Christ, and not yet spiritual.  That is also written in the Word of God.

[Macs Son]

People do most anything to justify their lack of grace to stop sinning.  John tells us that one who sins has never seen nor knows God.  People who sin need to ignore what John said.  To believe people who still sin means the bible contradicts its self, and then has no validity.  Christians who sin are still not spiritual, and are just infants in Christ.

Hi John, context is everything. We hardly want to ignore what John said but we don't the verse to invalidate everything else the Bible states either. For instance, is John contradicting himself in this verse?

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. -1John 2:1

What? Is John really talking to his spiritual children here who are Christians? What does he mean but if they sin they have an advocate with the Father - Jesus Christ our advocate? Didn't John say if they sin they do NOT know God - then how do they have an advocate? Aren't they done and lost forever?

Now don't get me wrong as I'm not arguing for sin - quite frankly it is the opposite; I'm arguing against sin - since sin comes from the enemy and the enemy is here to steal and destory. Yet I haven't met a single Christian yet who does not sin, nor one that hasn't needed God's good help to get them back up on their feet when their faith fails them or they fall prey to sin. BTW Paul states that everything that is not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23b) "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us." Yes, I have heard people before state this but usually it is not with much humility and usually with a great deal of pride, which is in itself a great b root of many underlying sins. Spiritual pride can be very wicked indeed and is to be avoided at all costs. It is best to read all the [passages we can in order to gain complete understanding of Scriptural harmony and context. Why does the writer of Hebrews talk to Chritians about "the sin that so easily besets us", if Christians can no longer sin? Why does Paul admonish the Galatians for falling into legalism, or the Corinthians for protecting and allowing sin in their church? If we also examine John's Greek a little deeper we would also see that he is talking about continuing the practice of sins. Do you consider that Peter didn't know God? How about Barnabas? Yet Paul clearly states that they both were in the wrong and practicing hypocrisy, which I believe is a sin. Do you consider hypocrisy a sin? Why are there so many verses in the New Testament that instruct us to correct and rebuke Christian in order to edify the Church if Christians do not sin? If Christians don't sin once we have the infilling of the Holy Spirit why would that be even necessary? Why does James as well as John tell us to confess our sins if the Christians can no longer fall short or are not in continual need of God's grace and restoration? Why did John go after a backslidden boy that had walked away from Christ and the church? These are all questions that are necessary to bring into harmony before we state something as a "Biblical' Truth. For the entire text of the Bible is the "word of God" and not just how we interpret one verse or even a few verses. Now all that said, I hate sin but as St Paul states we are at war with our flesh and it is a war we cannot win without God's help. We need to know in our heart that as a man chastens his son, so the LORD your God chastens us. "But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world." - 1Corinthians 11:32

And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:

“My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD,

Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;

For whom the LORD loves He chastens,

And scourges every son whom He receives.”

If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten?

Hebrews 12:5-7

Lastly we as Christians need to preach strongly against sin, and against it gaining a foothold in the Church of Christ - but no man left behind soldier! We aid the wounded and do not leave them behind for the enemy to kill and torture.

Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear. 1Titus 5:20

For we should see to be holy even as He is Holy.

Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul, having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation.

1Peter 2:11-12

In Christ, Pat

[Johnlove]

 

People do most anything to justify their lack of grace to stop sinning.  John tells us that one who sins has never seen nor knows God.  People who sin need to ignore what John said.  To believe people who still sin means the bible contradicts its self, and then has no validity.  Christians who sin are still not spiritual, and are just infants in Christ.

Hi John, context is everything. We hardly want to ignore what John said but we don't the verse to invalidate everything else the Bible states either. For instance, is John contradicting himself in this verse?

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. -1John 2:1

What? Is John really talking to his spiritual children here who are Christians? What does he mean but if they sin they have an advocate with the Father - Jesus Christ our advocate? Didn't John say if they sin they do NOT know God - then how do they have an advocate? Aren't they done and lost forever?

Now don't get me wrong as I'm not arguing for sin - quite frankly it is the opposite; I'm arguing against sin - since sin comes from the enemy and the enemy is here to steal and destory. Yet I haven't met a single Christian yet who does not sin, nor one that hasn't needed God's good help to get them back up on their feet when their faith fails them or they fall prey to sin. BTW Paul states that everything that is not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23b) "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us." Yes, I have heard people before state this but usually it is not with much humility and usually with a great deal of pride, which is in itself a great b root of many underlying sins. Spiritual pride can be very wicked indeed and is to be avoided at all costs. It is best to read all the [passages we can in order to gain complete understanding of Scriptural harmony and context. Why does the writer of Hebrews talk to Chritians about "the sin that so easily besets us", if Christians can no longer sin? Why does Paul admonish the Galatians for falling into legalism, or the Corinthians for protecting and allowing sin in their church? If we also examine John's Greek a little deeper we would also see that he is talking about continuing the practice of sins. Do you consider that Peter didn't know God? How about Barnabas? Yet Paul clearly states that they both were in the wrong and practicing hypocrisy, which I believe is a sin. Do you consider hypocrisy a sin? Why are there so many verses in the New Testament that instruct us to correct and rebuke Christian in order to edify the Church if Christians do not sin? If Christians don't sin once we have the infilling of the Holy Spirit why would that be even necessary? Why does James as well as John tell us to confess our sins if the Christians can no longer fall short or are not in continual need of God's grace and restoration? Why did John go after a backslidden boy that had walked away from Christ and the church? These are all questions that are necessary to bring into harmony before we state something as a "Biblical' Truth. For the entire text of the Bible is the "word of God" and not just how we interpret one verse or even a few verses. Now all that said, I hate sin but as St Paul states we are at war with our flesh and it is a war we cannot win without God's help. We need to know in our heart that as a man chastens his son, so the LORD your God chastens us. "But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world." - 1Corinthians 11:32

And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:

“My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD,

Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;

For whom the LORD loves He chastens,

And scourges every son whom He receives.”

If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten?

Hebrews 12:5-7

Lastly we as Christians need to preach strongly against sin, and against it gaining a foothold in the Church of Christ - but no man left behind soldier! We aid the wounded and do not leave them behind for the enemy to kill and torture.

Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear. 1Titus 5:20

For we should see to be holy even as He is Holy.

Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul, having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation.

1Peter 2:11-12

In Christ, Pat

 

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them.  There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.  Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment.  We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people.  It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

[coheir]

1Peter 5

¹⁰But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

is this suffering during the time one is working hard to put away sin after accepting Christ while one was still a sinner.

I know more people who fit this verse than I do that stopped all sin the moment they came up out of the water baptized.

just saying

[Johnlove]

 

1Peter 5

¹⁰But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

is this suffering during the time one is working hard to put away sin after accepting Christ while one was still a sinner.

I know more people who fit this verse than I do that stopped all sin the moment they came up out of the water baptized.

just saying

 

That is right after water baptism one needs to receive the Holy Spirit, and then allow the Holy Spirit to teach him or her.  The Holy Spirit will give one the grace to never sin again.  (Romans 8: 4) “He did this in order that the law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the Spirit dictates.”

[LadyKay]

 

 

 

John tells us that if one sins he or she is of the devil.  Can one who is of the devil be a Christian?  Remember a Christian walks as Jesus walked?

 

All I know is that we all were sinners saved by the blood of Christ. Sometimes we might fall and sin again. Then we repent and ask Jesus to forgive us again.  Sometimes I have days were I have to ask Jesus to forgive me 2 or 3 times in the same day. That's all I know.

 

A Christian is dead to sin.  No mater what your opinion is Scripture tells us that one who sins has never seen God nor knows God.  So if you sin you do not know God nor are you a Christian.  A Christian walks as Jesus walked.  That all is written in the Word of God.  One who says they are Christian and still sins is only an infant in Christ, and not yet spiritual.  That is also written in the Word of God.

 

I fall and make mistakes in my walk. Sometimes I say things I should not say. Sometimes I have hateful feelings towards others who have hurt me. All of these things are sins. All of these sins I ask God for forgiveness for whenever I give into them. Christ was perfect without sin. Born without sin. But I am not. I was born a sinner. Christ was not. I can try to be "Christ like" in my walk. But I can not be Christ. That is all I have to say. If you choice to pass judgment on me so be it.  You are not the only one to do so.  But I know my walk with Christ is true.

[tigger398]

I been a christian for almost 20yrs. I still fall and sin. I still say sorry to God and still do same thing. I try not to sin, but I don't mean it, and I'm not perfect.

[Fez]

I been a christian for almost 20yrs. I still fall and sin. I still say sorry to God and still do same thing. I try not to sin, but I don't mean it, and I'm not perfect.

Way to go tigger! Don't let anyone tell you you are not a sinner. Of course you are! We all are!

 

The bible is full of verses telling us that, and telling us how we should avoid sin.  

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

1Peter 5

¹⁰But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

is this suffering during the time one is working hard to put away sin after accepting Christ while one was still a sinner.

I know more people who fit this verse than I do that stopped all sin the moment they came up out of the water baptized.

just saying

 

That is right after water baptism one needs to receive the Holy Spirit, and then allow the Holy Spirit to teach him or her.  The Holy Spirit will give one the grace to never sin again.  (Romans 8: 4) “He did this in order that the law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the Spirit dictates.”

 

This is false doctrine.  We receive the Holy Spirit the minute we are born again.   Water Baptism is an act of obedience to the commandment of Jesus and is an outward testimony of one's commitment to Christ.

 

Rom. 8:4 does not teach that we receive grace to not sin again.  You are misrepresenting what that verse says.  It says that the righteousness of law is fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.  Jesus, in the Person of the Holy Spirit, fulfills the righteousness of the law IN us.  It has nothing to do with how we live, but it is Jesus in us who makes us right with God.

 

The Bible doesn't say that we as Christians can live 100% sinlessness.  If we could do that, we don't need grace.

[tigger398]

 

 

 

(1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars.If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless? Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?John later says:(1 John 3:3-9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to break the law. Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin: anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray’ to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy’ to lead a sinful life is to belong the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”John told us those who did not know God sinned and asked forgiveness and were forgiven, but once a person comes to know God he or she will not sin.Scripture goes on to say that if a person who does know God uses their free will to sin there is no repentance for that person.(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”(Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”Hi John Love,Are you saying Christians never sin after becoming Christian? I was having a hard time following the point. I believe we still struggle with our sin after becoming a Christian but that now we know we can have victory over it. However I haven't met a Christian who did not stumble. Take St. Peter for example. He denied our Lord three times the night before His crucifixion. Is hypocrisy sin? Paul also accused Peter and Barnabas of this at AntiochGalatians 2:11-13Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.David also sinned grievously with Bathsheba but the Lord did not cast him aside eitherPsalms 32:5 I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” And You forgave the iniquity of my sin. SelahJames advocates that the Christian should always confess their sins - useless if there is no way they can receive mercyJames 5:16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.John also speaks to us about confessing our sin when we do sin:Fellowship with Him and One AnotherJohn 1:15 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.We could go on with more example to show context but I think it's pretty clear Christians still struggle with sin, although we do have weapons to prevail over it now vs the little resistance we had before coming to Christ. That is not to be defeatist about sin but a humble assessment, lest we become prideful in ourselves - which in itself is sin.A little story about John the apostle in his late age as communicated down through the church fathers:Clement of Alexandria, was an early 2nd century Christian, who further related to us the formation of the four Gospels. Clément’s statements remain extant to us by way of Eusebius. Clement tells us that John remained active for some of these years after his return from Patmos in Ephesus and the seven churches mentioned in Revelation. Clément’s testimony is that John visited those surrounding churches, including at least the seven that he had written to in Revelation. John was purported to have died in about AD 98. It would appear He even had enough vigor during this period to have gone out after a backsliding youth on horseback. Clement captures a wonderful story about the aged Apostle which I believe rings true - I have no reason to disbelieve it in the same way I have no reason to disbelieve a biography about Billy Graham or Corrie Ten Boon. John had entrusted, a Pastor - most likely Polycarp, to shepherd a young boy who had come to faith in Christ at the Church of Smyrna. The Pastor did just that but the boy strayed from him and from the faith. The boy then in his teens gradually forsook the Church as well as his Pastor and began to cast his lot in with a band of juvenile delinquent, robbers who preyed on travelers as they went through the hillside passes near Smyrna. John had returned to Ephesus his home base and was unaware of this. Later he again saw fit to visit the Churches of Asia Minor, including Smyrna. Clement relates that upon again visiting the Pastor and his church John inquired about the boy brought to faith in Christ that he and the others had laid hand on for he had entrusted him to pastoral care. The Pastor countenance dropped as he stated that the boy was lost. We soon discover this was totally unacceptable to John’s mind and heart to accept this youngster as lost and yield him to clutches of the devil. With great heart the aged John has a horse saddled and seeks the boy out in a manner keeping with Jesus’ teachings about the Good Shepherd and that lost stray among the 99 sheep.On coming to the place, he was arrested by the robbers' outpost; neither fleeing nor entreating, but crying, "It was for this I came. Lead me to your captain;" who meanwhile was waiting, all armed as he was. But when he recognized John as he advanced, he turned, ashamed, and fled. The others followed and with all his might, forgetting his age, he cried out, "Why, my son, dost thou flee from me, thy father, unarmed, old? Son, pity me. Fear not; thou hast still hope of life. I will give an account to Christ for thee. If need be, I will willingly endure thy death, as the Lord died for us. For thee I will surrender my life. Stand, believe; Christ hath sent me." And he, when he heard, first stood, looking down; then threw down his arms, then trembled and wept bitterly. And on the old man approaching, he embraced him, speaking for himself with lamentations as he could, and baptized a second time with tears, concealing only his right hand. The other pledging, and assuring him on oath that he would find forgiveness for himself from the SaviorThrough great ordeal for such an aged man John wins him back to Christ. The boy repents with tears and John then re-grounds the teen back into the faith before leaving Smyrna and returning home. Jerome in his commentary on Ephesians and Galatians stated that as John began to slip in physical health he constantly exhorted his Church "Little children, love one another" We see from his epistles that this term, “Little children” was an endearing term he used for the church, the same term Jesus also used.

I don't think it is for us to say who the Lord will pardon and who He will not pardon, so I pray for all and leave that up to Him.

In Christ, PatPeople do most anything to justify their lack of grace to stop sinning.  John tells us that one who sins has never seen nor knows God.  People who sin need to ignore what John said.  To believe people who still sin means the bible contradicts its self, and then has no validity.  Christians who sin are still not spiritual, and are just infants in Christ.

 

 

"Christians who sin are still not spiritual, and are just infants in Christ."

 

 

I'm just wondering when you think a Christian is matured and does that mean they don't sin anymore?

 

Like I said. I been a christian for almost 20yrs and still a sinner. I'm not as advanced or bible smart like some of the people here on boards, but to say we don't sin, just because were christians is a lie.