Trinitron Posted July 6, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 140 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 6, 2014 It's easier to reconcile that aspect of your Christianity. To have on true version to use. The problem is it causes bible worship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Number 4 is not a legitimate argument. If the apocrypha belonged in the bible then it would not be unbiblical. You would accept it as biblical. I don't see how #4 is not legitimate. Those things are not biblical. The apocrypha is rejected because it contradicts the Bible. So putting the Apocrypha into the Bible would not make those doctrines biblical. It's nonstarter. Imagine the BBC did a documentary that aimed at the apocrypha. What would be the protestant response to that? Thats not part of the bible is the response. So naturally they are going to aim at the parts that all christians accept. Its just logical if your aim is to tear down christianity to give people such an easy way to dismiss it. Actually more Christians over the ages have accepted the Apocrypha than have rejected it. But that is irrelevant. The BBC probably has done documentaries on the Apocrypha, but none of them have been hostile to it. The only books that they are hostile to are the 66 books of the Protestant Bible. except where that punctuation goes changes everything. Of course people accept that punctuation as divinely inspired as well. Doctrines are built around where that punctuation goes. I know of no place in the Bible where any major Christian doctrine hinges on punctuation. I know of no legitimate scholar or commentator who views punctuation as inspired. You also need to provide the translation your using for the apocraphya books as several verses do not match up. Some translations paint a very different picture to what you suggest. Just like specifying which bible translation one is using same applies here. Yes, that is a good point. I was working from class notes I took in college in a class I took on the Apocrypha and I discovered that verses I used were coming from the NRSV Apocrypha. However, in the KJV version, Nebuchadnezzar is still referred to as the King of the Assyrians in Judith 1:7 Tobit 12:9 even in the KJV still teaches salvation by works. It appears that Baruch 6 appears in some versions of the Apocrypha and not others. I was not previously aware of that fact. That makes it even more suspect. While the KJV apocrypha has Baruch at only 5 chapters, the NRSV and other versions contain the sixth chapter. The overall character of the Apocrypha, no matter what version of it you are using demonstrates it uninspired and unbiblical character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted July 6, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted July 6, 2014 So because people died, it's the one and true manuscript? Because it was made against the wishes of the evil Catholics? Who destroyed the native Americans and Hawaiians? What has the destruction of the Native Americans got to do with anything at all other than a tedious crazy straw man that I have heard so many times. I think you're confusing colonialism with Christianity. By the way the Native Americans and the Hawaiians are still around today. Of course there are Native American tribes in South America who were wiped out completely by the Spanish who were guess what? Catholic!!! So tell me, what exactly is the point of your statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinitron Posted July 6, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 140 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 6, 2014 So tell me, what exactly is the point of your statement? Part of KJVO is demonization of Catholics. It greases the wheels of it, keeps the fire going. The Protestants are just humble innocent servants of God under the oppression of the Satan's Church of domination and oppression. That's how the one true bible for all eternity came out of the Reformation era. Off course lets forget that even though they used the Beza(Calvin's sit in) text, it was a government bible that was made well after the Reformation and it was dispersed through the world by means of Imperialist England and that is how it attained it's primacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted July 6, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted July 6, 2014 People are taught things from outside from others and they learn. People are taught from inside as well but all are taught. What they choose to believe in the end reveals who is leading them. Either God is KJV only or God is not. I contend that what people believe is taught to them and therefore those who believe KJV only believe it because they were taught it whether it be from inside (through the heart) or from outside (through the mouths of men). This is the how and the why of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted July 6, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted July 6, 2014 People are taught things from outside from others and they learn. People are taught from inside as well but all are taught. What they choose to believe in the end reveals who is leading them. Either God is KJV only or God is not. I contend that what people believe is taught to them and therefore those who believe KJV only believe it because they were taught it whether it be from inside (through the heart) or from outside (through the mouths of men). This is the how and the why of it. Yep I guess that is so. Why I don't concern myself too much about whether it is a V8 or V6 or four cylinder version of the bible (In some peoples minds), is because when I hear a person like my pastor preach, he could be preaching from the instruction manual for my heart rate training monitor, while all we hear is the Love of Jesus shining through. Such is his visible heart for the brethren and the lost. When I read George's devotions, I don't bother to check the version of bible he uses (I think it is KJV), I listen to his words, and his message. Such is his visible heart for the brethren and the lost We need to concern ourselves with scripture and test words against it, of course we do, but more often as not, we can (we should be able to, if we have the Spirit residing in us), discern what is true and what is not. When we strap scripture to our back we weigh ourselves down. People don't need our doctrine, our version, our law, our hyper grace, our version of church, or dress, they just need Jesus, and sometimes the best thing we can do is just get out of the way so they can see Him. (or so Casting Crowns say, and I agree). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeboll64 Posted July 6, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 11 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 6, 2014 The bottom line is that the scriptures were originally written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Those original mss were copied and re-copied many, many times throughout the years. And many times, the scribe doing the copying added his own thoughts - into the margin or whatever - and those marginal additions were sometimes added into the actual scriptural text by an even later scribe........ as if those words were part of the inspired scripture. For example, the extra words in the King James Version of 1 John 5:7 are not found in any Greek ms that dates before the 14th century. And there are a LOT of Greek mss that date much earlier than the 14th century. So it seems to me that the only options are: 1. A scribe ADDED those extra words to the original, sometime around the 14th century. 2. Somebody went back in time and ERASED those words from all of those earlier Greek mss. The KJV is a fine and well-translated Bible....... but the scholars who produced it could only go off of the best mss they had at that time. Parts of it were even back-translated from the Latin Vulgate, since they didn't have access to Hebrew mss of the entire OT. We have since uncovered (or discovered) many older Hebrew and Greek mss.......... and these are the ones the newer English versions are translated from. (This is why you'll often see extra words in the KJV that aren't in, say, the NIV. It's not a matter of the NIV leaving words out for personal reasons. Instead, it is a matter of the NIV being translated from much older mss, and those other words simply aren't in those older mss.) Many people believe that the older the English translation, the closer to the truth. But in reality, the older the Hebrew or Greek mss, the closer to the original inspired words that were written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeboll64 Posted July 6, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 11 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 6, 2014 Why do you suppose those extra words were MISSING from those mss lying around in the caves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted July 6, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted July 6, 2014 People are taught things from outside from others and they learn. People are taught from inside as well but all are taught. What they choose to believe in the end reveals who is leading them. Either God is KJV only or God is not. I contend that what people believe is taught to them and therefore those who believe KJV only believe it because they were taught it whether it be from inside (through the heart) or from outside (through the mouths of men). This is the how and the why of it. Yep I guess that is so. Why I don't concern myself too much about whether it is a V8 or V6 or four cylinder version of the bible (In some peoples minds), is because when I hear a person like my pastor preach, he could be preaching from the instruction manual for my heart rate training monitor, while all we hear is the Love of Jesus shining through. Such is his visible heart for the brethren and the lost. When I read George's devotions, I don't bother to check the version of bible he uses (I think it is KJV), I listen to his words, and his message. Such is his visible heart for the brethren and the lost We need to concern ourselves with scripture and test words against it, of course we do, but more often as not, we can (we should be able to, if we have the Spirit residing in us), discern what is true and what is not. When we strap scripture to our back we weigh ourselves down. People don't need our doctrine, our version, our law, our hyper grace, our version of church, or dress, they just need Jesus, and sometimes the best thing we can do is just get out of the way so they can see Him. (or so Casting Crowns say, and I agree). spot on Fez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted July 6, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted July 6, 2014 There was a person in here Gdemoss that claims the Holy Spirit showed him there are numerous errors in the KJV Bible. I believe God has shown me that he is against the new translations as they are intentionally perverting his Word. In that sense, you may be on to something. I have given you my main objection, so rather than continue in circles with the other things, I will stick to that. I believe Satan is using new translations to pervert the Word to such a degree, nobody is sure what truth is. They will always be able to find a translation that lets them justify anything, and if it doesn't exist already, they will create one. Butero, I believe you are correct in that Satan is using the variety of translations to pervert the word of God but surely you agree that he need not leave the KJV to do just that. There is overwhelming evidence that shows many who follow KJV only doctrine can be just as corrupt by perverting the KJV. As Fez pointed out clearly we listen for the Holy Spirit within the person leading and guiding us into all truth regardless of what translation they are teaching from. I believe that people who have never read or known the KJV are led to God and taught perfectly the word of God without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts