Endtime Layout

[iamlamad]

 

 

Then the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things in it, and the earth and the things in it, and the sea and the things in it, that there will be delay no longer, but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.  Revelation 10:5-7

 

I like this passage too.

Please, tell us what this mystery was and is.

 

I was going to ask you the same thing.

 

It is sad, but John never tells us. We can only guess by what happens: the kingdoms transfer to Jesus and Satan is cast down. I have guessed that Adam's lease that Satan usurped runs out. I futher guess that the lease was for 6000 years for man to rule earth; then 1000 years for God to rule. I further guess that the book or scroll in the Father's hand with the 7 seals is the earth lease document; and that if no one was every found worthy to break the seals, then Satan would remain as god of this world. The breaking of the seals was and is the beginning of the end of Satan's rule on earth.

[ARGOSY]

You say this, yet the word "coming" is NOT FOUND in this text. Neither is there even a HINT of a coming found here. I think you WANT to find it because you believe it should be here. Sorry, it does not work that way. Read the text, then believe what it says. It should be easy to believe Jesus begins to reign at this point, for that is clearly written. To believe this is a coming when John does not tell us it is - that in human imagination.

 

 

If you believe this is a coming, do you then add one more coming, knowing that Rev. 16 is also a coming?

 

 

I was referring to the whole chapter, not just those verses. And I already explained my reasoning for seeing the second coming in Rev 11, I don't need to explain that again.  

 

And I don't really understand where you get your strawman argument that I believe in many comings.  I have already stated that I believe the entire book of Revelation has multiple visions about the second coming, I said nothing about multiple comings.

 

I believe Rev 16 does not actually mention the second coming, but the great battle and the destruction of Babylon, and the great earthquake and hailstones make it clear its referring to the second coming. 

[iamlamad]

 

You say this, yet the word "coming" is NOT FOUND in this text. Neither is there even a HINT of a coming found here. I think you WANT to find it because you believe it should be here. Sorry, it does not work that way. Read the text, then believe what it says. It should be easy to believe Jesus begins to reign at this point, for that is clearly written. To believe this is a coming when John does not tell us it is - that in human imagination.

 

 

If you believe this is a coming, do you then add one more coming, knowing that Rev. 16 is also a coming?

 

 

I was referring to the whole chapter, not just those verses. And I already explained my reasoning for seeing the second coming in Rev 11, I don't need to explain that again.  

 

And I don't really understand where you get your strawman argument that I believe in many comings.  I have already stated that I believe the entire book of Revelation has multiple visions about the second coming, I said nothing about multiple comings.

 

I believe Rev 16 does not actually mention the second coming, but the great battle and the destruction of Babylon, and the great earthquake and hailstones make it clear its referring to the second coming. 

 

You rested your case. You and I will never agree on these things. Sorry, I meant Rev. 19, which I think clearly shows His coming after the 70th week.

[Last Daze]

 

 

 

Then the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things in it, and the earth and the things in it, and the sea and the things in it, that there will be delay no longer, but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.  Revelation 10:5-7

 

I like this passage too.

Please, tell us what this mystery was and is.

 

I was going to ask you the same thing.

 

It is sad, but John never tells us. We can only guess by what happens: the kingdoms transfer to Jesus and Satan is cast down. I have guessed that Adam's lease that Satan usurped runs out. I futher guess that the lease was for 6000 years for man to rule earth; then 1000 years for God to rule. I further guess that the book or scroll in the Father's hand with the 7 seals is the earth lease document; and that if no one was every found worthy to break the seals, then Satan would remain as god of this world. The breaking of the seals was and is the beginning of the end of Satan's rule on earth.

 

 

I have a little different take on it.

 

Surely the Lord God does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets. Amos 3:7

 

I doubt that such revelation was for their self-edification.  Consider:

 

And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables,..." Mark 4:11

 

The prophecy of the great statue shows best how this happens.  No taking ownership first , just smash, then His kingdom.  I can't see where Jesus has any interest in taking ownership of Satan's handiwork.  He already owns the earth and all it contains so what's left to transfer Jesus?  The only thing that Satan produces is ungodliness (mystery Babylon) which God utterly destroys.  I only see a "smash it all and start over" approach based on the great statue. 

 

The earth is the Lord’s, and all it contains, The world, and those who dwell in it.  Psalm 24:1

 

The part that speaks volumes is "delay no longer" when the seventh trumpet sounds.  The mystery of God is the kingdom of God.  To quote a fellow poster, "first by grace, then by race".  This is echoed in the seventh trumpet: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”

[iamlamad]

 

 

 

 

Then the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things in it, and the earth and the things in it, and the sea and the things in it, that there will be delay no longer, but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.  Revelation 10:5-7

 

I like this passage too.

Please, tell us what this mystery was and is.

 

I was going to ask you the same thing.

 

It is sad, but John never tells us. We can only guess by what happens: the kingdoms transfer to Jesus and Satan is cast down. I have guessed that Adam's lease that Satan usurped runs out. I futher guess that the lease was for 6000 years for man to rule earth; then 1000 years for God to rule. I further guess that the book or scroll in the Father's hand with the 7 seals is the earth lease document; and that if no one was every found worthy to break the seals, then Satan would remain as god of this world. The breaking of the seals was and is the beginning of the end of Satan's rule on earth.

 

 

I have a little different take on it.

 

Surely the Lord God does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets. Amos 3:7

 

I doubt that such revelation was for their self-edification.  Consider:

 

And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables,..." Mark 4:11

 

The prophecy of the great statue shows best how this happens.  No taking ownership first , just smash, then His kingdom.  I can't see where Jesus has any interest in taking ownership of Satan's handiwork.  He already owns the earth and all it contains so what's left to transfer Jesus?  The only thing that Satan produces is ungodliness (mystery Babylon) which God utterly destroys.  I only see a "smash it all and start over" approach based on the great statue. 

 

The earth is the Lord’s, and all it contains, The world, and those who dwell in it.  Psalm 24:1

 

The part that speaks volumes is "delay no longer" when the seventh trumpet sounds.  The mystery of God is the kingdom of God.  To quote a fellow poster, "first by grace, then by race".  This is echoed in the seventh trumpet: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”

 

You are overlooking something. "Has become" at the 7th trumpet means WAS NOT before the 7th trumpet. In other words, the Kingdoms of the world WERE NOT the kingdoms of Our Lord before the 7th trumpet.

 

2 Cor. 4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

mat. 4:

⁸ Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

⁹ And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

¹⁰ Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

 

Satan could give the Kingdoms, because he was ruling them at that time. He has been the god of this world since Adam sinned. But the day is coming when He will be cast down and the kingdoms TRANSFERRED to Our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Last Daze]

 

 

 

 

 

Then the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things in it, and the earth and the things in it, and the sea and the things in it, that there will be delay no longer, but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.  Revelation 10:5-7

 

I like this passage too.

Please, tell us what this mystery was and is.

 

I was going to ask you the same thing.

 

It is sad, but John never tells us. We can only guess by what happens: the kingdoms transfer to Jesus and Satan is cast down. I have guessed that Adam's lease that Satan usurped runs out. I futher guess that the lease was for 6000 years for man to rule earth; then 1000 years for God to rule. I further guess that the book or scroll in the Father's hand with the 7 seals is the earth lease document; and that if no one was every found worthy to break the seals, then Satan would remain as god of this world. The breaking of the seals was and is the beginning of the end of Satan's rule on earth.

 

 

I have a little different take on it.

 

Surely the Lord God does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets. Amos 3:7

 

I doubt that such revelation was for their self-edification.  Consider:

 

And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables,..." Mark 4:11

 

The prophecy of the great statue shows best how this happens.  No taking ownership first , just smash, then His kingdom.  I can't see where Jesus has any interest in taking ownership of Satan's handiwork.  He already owns the earth and all it contains so what's left to transfer Jesus?  The only thing that Satan produces is ungodliness (mystery Babylon) which God utterly destroys.  I only see a "smash it all and start over" approach based on the great statue. 

 

The earth is the Lord’s, and all it contains, The world, and those who dwell in it.  Psalm 24:1

 

The part that speaks volumes is "delay no longer" when the seventh trumpet sounds.  The mystery of God is the kingdom of God.  To quote a fellow poster, "first by grace, then by race".  This is echoed in the seventh trumpet: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”

 

You are overlooking something. "Has become" at the 7th trumpet means WAS NOT before the 7th trumpet. In other words, the Kingdoms of the world WERE NOT the kingdoms of Our Lord before the 7th trumpet.

 

2 Cor. 4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

mat. 4:

⁸ Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

⁹ And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

¹⁰ Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

 

Satan could give the Kingdoms, because he was ruling them at that time. He has been the god of this world since Adam sinned. But the day is coming when He will be cast down and the kingdoms TRANSFERRED to Our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

 

I'm not arguing that Satan is the god of this world and influencing it to engage in all manner of ungodliness.  That's not what's in question.  I'm just not sure what you're getting at with your "has become" statement.  Are you saying that the Jesus is taking ownership of the brick and mortar buildings at the seventh trumpet?  I think He already owns what He created.  If you disagree, can you show where He gave Satan possession of the physical earth?  If not, then I'll assume that Psalm 24:1, as stated above, still stands.  What else is in the world?

 

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.  1 John 2:16

 

Those are the things that Satan's kingdoms are built on.  Need I say that Jesus has no interest in any of that?  Maybe it would help me understand if you would define exactly what these "kingdoms" are that you say are being transferred to Jesus.

 

What the seventh trumpet is indicating when it says "has become" is that the previous ungodly governance of earth is gone and has become the governance of Christ.  This corresponds to the stone striking the feet of the statue in Daniel 2.

 

You're overlooking something...."delay no longer".  If I remember other threads correctly you think there's still 3.5 years left after the seventh trumpet.  How do you reconcile 3.5 years with "delay no longer"?

[iamlamad]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things in it, and the earth and the things in it, and the sea and the things in it, that there will be delay no longer, but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.  Revelation 10:5-7

 

I like this passage too.

Please, tell us what this mystery was and is.

 

I was going to ask you the same thing.

 

It is sad, but John never tells us. We can only guess by what happens: the kingdoms transfer to Jesus and Satan is cast down. I have guessed that Adam's lease that Satan usurped runs out. I futher guess that the lease was for 6000 years for man to rule earth; then 1000 years for God to rule. I further guess that the book or scroll in the Father's hand with the 7 seals is the earth lease document; and that if no one was every found worthy to break the seals, then Satan would remain as god of this world. The breaking of the seals was and is the beginning of the end of Satan's rule on earth.

 

 

I have a little different take on it.

 

Surely the Lord God does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets. Amos 3:7

 

I doubt that such revelation was for their self-edification.  Consider:

 

And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables,..." Mark 4:11

 

The prophecy of the great statue shows best how this happens.  No taking ownership first , just smash, then His kingdom.  I can't see where Jesus has any interest in taking ownership of Satan's handiwork.  He already owns the earth and all it contains so what's left to transfer Jesus?  The only thing that Satan produces is ungodliness (mystery Babylon) which God utterly destroys.  I only see a "smash it all and start over" approach based on the great statue. 

 

The earth is the Lord’s, and all it contains, The world, and those who dwell in it.  Psalm 24:1

 

The part that speaks volumes is "delay no longer" when the seventh trumpet sounds.  The mystery of God is the kingdom of God.  To quote a fellow poster, "first by grace, then by race".  This is echoed in the seventh trumpet: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”

 

You are overlooking something. "Has become" at the 7th trumpet means WAS NOT before the 7th trumpet. In other words, the Kingdoms of the world WERE NOT the kingdoms of Our Lord before the 7th trumpet.

 

2 Cor. 4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

mat. 4:

⁸ Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

⁹ And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

¹⁰ Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

 

Satan could give the Kingdoms, because he was ruling them at that time. He has been the god of this world since Adam sinned. But the day is coming when He will be cast down and the kingdoms TRANSFERRED to Our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

 

I'm not arguing that Satan is the god of this world and influencing it to engage in all manner of ungodliness.  That's not what's in question.  I'm just not sure what you're getting at with your "has become" statement.  Are you saying that the Jesus is taking ownership of the brick and mortar buildings at the seventh trumpet?  I think He already owns what He created.  If you disagree, can you show where He gave Satan possession of the physical earth?  If not, then I'll assume that Psalm 24:1, as stated above, still stands.  What else is in the world?

 

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.  1 John 2:16

 

Those are the things that Satan's kingdoms are built on.  Need I say that Jesus has no interest in any of that?  Maybe it would help me understand if you would define exactly what these "kingdoms" are that you say are being transferred to Jesus.

 

What the seventh trumpet is indicating when it says "has become" is that the previous ungodly governance of earth is gone and has become the governance of Christ.  This corresponds to the stone striking the feet of the statue in Daniel 2.

 

You're overlooking something...."delay no longer".  If I remember other threads correctly you think there's still 3.5 years left after the seventh trumpet.  How do you reconcile 3.5 years with "delay no longer"?

 

I guess you don't see it: At the 7th trumpet, Satan will lose the kingdoms of the world, and Jesus will gain them. In other words, the rulership is transferred. I know you recognize the difference between someone that owns a building, and one who leases it. God gave Adam a 6000 year lease, which Satan usurped. Adam was suppose to rule, but now Satan rules. He took rulership of the planet and the kingdoms on the planet, including the human race. he thinks he owns the earth, but we know God does.  However, he owns the human race, or thinks he does. That is why it is written that Jesus redeemed us or bought us back. So Satan rules, up to the sounding of the 7th trumpet.

 

Revelation 5:9

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

 

Jesus literally bought us, purchased us with the price of His blood. I could liken it to slaves. Adam and Eve were love slaves of God. They belonged to Him for He created them. But they chose to run away and because trapped by a wicked slave owner. They still legally belonged to God, but were possessed by a wicked slave owner.  When Adam and Eve sinned, they automatically became slaves of this new owner, SIN and Satan.

 

John 12:31

Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

 

John 14:30

Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

 

John 16:11

Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

 

Jesus called Satan the Prince of this world. This has been his position since Adam sinned. AT the 7th trumpet JESUS becomes the Prince of this world.

 

Again it is the difference between being the owner or the leasee. In summary, buildings cannot be "ruled," but people can.

[Last Daze]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things in it, and the earth and the things in it, and the sea and the things in it, that there will be delay no longer, but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.  Revelation 10:5-7

 

I like this passage too.

Please, tell us what this mystery was and is.

 

I was going to ask you the same thing.

 

It is sad, but John never tells us. We can only guess by what happens: the kingdoms transfer to Jesus and Satan is cast down. I have guessed that Adam's lease that Satan usurped runs out. I futher guess that the lease was for 6000 years for man to rule earth; then 1000 years for God to rule. I further guess that the book or scroll in the Father's hand with the 7 seals is the earth lease document; and that if no one was every found worthy to break the seals, then Satan would remain as god of this world. The breaking of the seals was and is the beginning of the end of Satan's rule on earth.

 

 

I have a little different take on it.

 

Surely the Lord God does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets. Amos 3:7

 

I doubt that such revelation was for their self-edification.  Consider:

 

And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables,..." Mark 4:11

 

The prophecy of the great statue shows best how this happens.  No taking ownership first , just smash, then His kingdom.  I can't see where Jesus has any interest in taking ownership of Satan's handiwork.  He already owns the earth and all it contains so what's left to transfer Jesus?  The only thing that Satan produces is ungodliness (mystery Babylon) which God utterly destroys.  I only see a "smash it all and start over" approach based on the great statue. 

 

The earth is the Lord’s, and all it contains, The world, and those who dwell in it.  Psalm 24:1

 

The part that speaks volumes is "delay no longer" when the seventh trumpet sounds.  The mystery of God is the kingdom of God.  To quote a fellow poster, "first by grace, then by race".  This is echoed in the seventh trumpet: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”

 

You are overlooking something. "Has become" at the 7th trumpet means WAS NOT before the 7th trumpet. In other words, the Kingdoms of the world WERE NOT the kingdoms of Our Lord before the 7th trumpet.

 

2 Cor. 4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

mat. 4:

⁸ Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

⁹ And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

¹⁰ Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

 

Satan could give the Kingdoms, because he was ruling them at that time. He has been the god of this world since Adam sinned. But the day is coming when He will be cast down and the kingdoms TRANSFERRED to Our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

 

I'm not arguing that Satan is the god of this world and influencing it to engage in all manner of ungodliness.  That's not what's in question.  I'm just not sure what you're getting at with your "has become" statement.  Are you saying that the Jesus is taking ownership of the brick and mortar buildings at the seventh trumpet?  I think He already owns what He created.  If you disagree, can you show where He gave Satan possession of the physical earth?  If not, then I'll assume that Psalm 24:1, as stated above, still stands.  What else is in the world?

 

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.  1 John 2:16

 

Those are the things that Satan's kingdoms are built on.  Need I say that Jesus has no interest in any of that?  Maybe it would help me understand if you would define exactly what these "kingdoms" are that you say are being transferred to Jesus.

 

What the seventh trumpet is indicating when it says "has become" is that the previous ungodly governance of earth is gone and has become the governance of Christ.  This corresponds to the stone striking the feet of the statue in Daniel 2.

 

You're overlooking something...."delay no longer".  If I remember other threads correctly you think there's still 3.5 years left after the seventh trumpet.  How do you reconcile 3.5 years with "delay no longer"?

 

I guess you don't see it: At the 7th trumpet, Satan will lose the kingdoms of the world, and Jesus will gain them. In other words, the rulership is transferred. I know you recognize the difference between someone that owns a building, and one who leases it. God gave Adam a 6000 year lease, which Satan usurped. Adam was suppose to rule, but now Satan rules. He took rulership of the planet and the kingdoms on the planet, including the human race. he thinks he owns the earth, but we know God does.  However, he owns the human race, or thinks he does. That is why it is written that Jesus redeemed us or bought us back. So Satan rules, up to the sounding of the 7th trumpet.

 

Revelation 5:9

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

 

Jesus literally bought us, purchased us with the price of His blood. I could liken it to slaves. Adam and Eve were love slaves of God. They belonged to Him for He created them. But they chose to run away and because trapped by a wicked slave owner. They still legally belonged to God, but were possessed by a wicked slave owner.  When Adam and Eve sinned, they automatically became slaves of this new owner, SIN and Satan.

 

John 12:31

Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

 

John 14:30

Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

 

John 16:11

Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

 

Jesus called Satan the Prince of this world. This has been his position since Adam sinned. AT the 7th trumpet JESUS becomes the Prince of this world.

 

Again it is the difference between being the owner or the leasee. In summary, buildings cannot be "ruled," but people can.

 

 

So it looks like we're in agreement in what's meant by "has become"...the rulership.

 

In other words, the rulership is transferred.

 

Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”  Rev 11:15

 

Would you agree with this paraphrasing "The governance of the earth has become that of Jesus, forever"?

 

I see the old governor getting cast into the abyss and the new Governor taking over, forever, at the seventh trumpet.

 

Now back to that "delay no longer" part.....

[iamlamad]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things in it, and the earth and the things in it, and the sea and the things in it, that there will be delay no longer, but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.  Revelation 10:5-7

 

I like this passage too.

Please, tell us what this mystery was and is.

 

I was going to ask you the same thing.

 

It is sad, but John never tells us. We can only guess by what happens: the kingdoms transfer to Jesus and Satan is cast down. I have guessed that Adam's lease that Satan usurped runs out. I futher guess that the lease was for 6000 years for man to rule earth; then 1000 years for God to rule. I further guess that the book or scroll in the Father's hand with the 7 seals is the earth lease document; and that if no one was every found worthy to break the seals, then Satan would remain as god of this world. The breaking of the seals was and is the beginning of the end of Satan's rule on earth.

 

 

I have a little different take on it.

 

Surely the Lord God does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets. Amos 3:7

 

I doubt that such revelation was for their self-edification.  Consider:

 

And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables,..." Mark 4:11

 

The prophecy of the great statue shows best how this happens.  No taking ownership first , just smash, then His kingdom.  I can't see where Jesus has any interest in taking ownership of Satan's handiwork.  He already owns the earth and all it contains so what's left to transfer Jesus?  The only thing that Satan produces is ungodliness (mystery Babylon) which God utterly destroys.  I only see a "smash it all and start over" approach based on the great statue. 

 

The earth is the Lord’s, and all it contains, The world, and those who dwell in it.  Psalm 24:1

 

The part that speaks volumes is "delay no longer" when the seventh trumpet sounds.  The mystery of God is the kingdom of God.  To quote a fellow poster, "first by grace, then by race".  This is echoed in the seventh trumpet: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”

 

You are overlooking something. "Has become" at the 7th trumpet means WAS NOT before the 7th trumpet. In other words, the Kingdoms of the world WERE NOT the kingdoms of Our Lord before the 7th trumpet.

 

2 Cor. 4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

mat. 4:

⁸ Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

⁹ And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

¹⁰ Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

 

Satan could give the Kingdoms, because he was ruling them at that time. He has been the god of this world since Adam sinned. But the day is coming when He will be cast down and the kingdoms TRANSFERRED to Our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

 

I'm not arguing that Satan is the god of this world and influencing it to engage in all manner of ungodliness.  That's not what's in question.  I'm just not sure what you're getting at with your "has become" statement.  Are you saying that the Jesus is taking ownership of the brick and mortar buildings at the seventh trumpet?  I think He already owns what He created.  If you disagree, can you show where He gave Satan possession of the physical earth?  If not, then I'll assume that Psalm 24:1, as stated above, still stands.  What else is in the world?

 

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.  1 John 2:16

 

Those are the things that Satan's kingdoms are built on.  Need I say that Jesus has no interest in any of that?  Maybe it would help me understand if you would define exactly what these "kingdoms" are that you say are being transferred to Jesus.

 

What the seventh trumpet is indicating when it says "has become" is that the previous ungodly governance of earth is gone and has become the governance of Christ.  This corresponds to the stone striking the feet of the statue in Daniel 2.

 

You're overlooking something...."delay no longer".  If I remember other threads correctly you think there's still 3.5 years left after the seventh trumpet.  How do you reconcile 3.5 years with "delay no longer"?

 

I guess you don't see it: At the 7th trumpet, Satan will lose the kingdoms of the world, and Jesus will gain them. In other words, the rulership is transferred. I know you recognize the difference between someone that owns a building, and one who leases it. God gave Adam a 6000 year lease, which Satan usurped. Adam was suppose to rule, but now Satan rules. He took rulership of the planet and the kingdoms on the planet, including the human race. he thinks he owns the earth, but we know God does.  However, he owns the human race, or thinks he does. That is why it is written that Jesus redeemed us or bought us back. So Satan rules, up to the sounding of the 7th trumpet.

 

Revelation 5:9

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

 

Jesus literally bought us, purchased us with the price of His blood. I could liken it to slaves. Adam and Eve were love slaves of God. They belonged to Him for He created them. But they chose to run away and because trapped by a wicked slave owner. They still legally belonged to God, but were possessed by a wicked slave owner.  When Adam and Eve sinned, they automatically became slaves of this new owner, SIN and Satan.

 

John 12:31

Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

 

John 14:30

Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

 

John 16:11

Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

 

Jesus called Satan the Prince of this world. This has been his position since Adam sinned. AT the 7th trumpet JESUS becomes the Prince of this world.

 

Again it is the difference between being the owner or the leasee. In summary, buildings cannot be "ruled," but people can.

 

 

So it looks like we're in agreement in what's meant by "has become"...the rulership.

 

In other words, the rulership is transferred.

 

Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”  Rev 11:15

 

Would you agree with this paraphrasing "The governance of the earth has become that of Jesus, forever"?

 

I see the old governor getting cast into the abyss and the new Governor taking over, forever, at the seventh trumpet.

 

Now back to that "delay no longer" part.....

 

I can agree with govenor. It works as well as ruler.  I also agree that "delay no longer" is a better translation than KJV.

[seandavids]

This is based on the events and times given in the Book of Daniel, and in our Lord Jesus' Olivet Discourse, and His Revelation, and portions of the OT Books of God's prophets. The * marker is to show what events occur on the day of Christ's coming known as "the day of the Lord". The (p.) stands for a 'period' of time.

 

 

[---------------------------------------Dan.9:27 "one week"-------------------------------------]

[---p.1---------][----p.2----------][--- p.3---------][----------------------p.4----------------------][*]

[--220 days--][--1040 days---][-AOD setup-][-was 1260 days, now "five months"-][*]

 

p.1 & p.2 = 1260 days of the first half of Daniel's symbolic "one week" (one seven). The period of a 'week' per the 70 weeks prophecy equals a 7 year period per the historical event timing of the previously fulfilled 69 weeks. The final 70th yet unfulfilled week is this "one week" of Dan.9:27.

 

p.1 = prep time for the daily sacrifices and building of the new temple in Jerusalem.

 

p.2 = the time of the re-instituted daily sacrifice and temple worship; the time of those who worship in the temple in Rev.11:1.

 

p.3 is the midst of the "one week" (7 years) when the Antichrist ends the daily sacrifice and substitutes with the placing of the "abomination of desolation" in the temple, demanding all to bow in worship.

 

p. 4 is the "great tribulation" timing, the 42 month reign of the "dragon" of Rev.13, the 42 months the Gentiles are given to tread the holy city per Rev.11:2. It's the timing of the locust working with the pseudo-Christ setup in Jerusalem as king of the world, i.e., the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe timing. Christ shortened this 1260 days to "five months" per the time of the stinging by the locusts of Rev.9 and His declaration in Matt.24:21-26. The locusts are told to not hurt any green thing, and cannot kill anyone not sealed with God's sealing. It is the time of God's two witnesses prophesying in Jerusalem for 1260 days before they are killed by the beast that ascends up from the bottomless pit.

 

(*) - "the day of the Lord" = day of Christ's second coming to gather His Church. Day of the battle of Armageddon and Gog/Magog, His coming destroying the Antichrist's armies that will attempt to come upon Israel on that last day of this world. It is the time of God's consuming fire per 2 Pet.3:10 and the OT prophets, burning man's works off the surface of the earth like how the flood of Noah's day destroyed man's works then. It is the day when those still alive on earth, including Christ's Church, will be changed at the "twinkling of an eye" to the "spiritual body" of 1 Cor.15 on the "last trump". It is the time of the 7th trumpet - 3rd final woe. It is the time of the 6th seal with Christ's enemies seeking to hide themselves, wishing for the hills and mountains to fall on them (shame). It is the time when those of Christ's Church did not wait on Him will appear in shame loosing their "garments". It is the time when Jesus will shut the door on the five foolish virgins. It is the first day of Christ's "thousand years" reign of Rev.20.

 

Does that help anyone?

boy thats an awefully long week.

are you sure God's word said weeks?

seems your whole theory is based on this incredibly long week

Edited December 4, 2014 by seandavids