OakWood Posted August 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I don't believe that God sees into the future. The future doesn't exist yet. Our concept of time is a man-made one created by Einstein's theory of relativity. You can't travel forward in time and you can't travel back in time. You can't see into the future either. There is no future. We are using man-made concepts to make time into something fixed and immutable. God is in complete control, that's how he knows what will happen because he makes it happen and nothing has the power to stop him. He knows who will receive him and who will reject him, not because he has pre-ordained it but because he knows us all so well. We do have free will, but God knows how we will use it. GOD is outside of time. He created it. Of course He can see and know the future. That is how he can see us as new Creatures. I am quite shocked to read what you have said here, OakWood. I guess you never really understand a person when you think you do. Time is a man made concept. It was physicists in the 19th and 20th Centuries who said that time was some sort of dimension. If I tell somebody that tomorrow morning I am going to have bacon for breakfast that's not because I have seen into the future, it's because that's what I have decided to have. I've made my decision so I'll stick to it. However, there are things beyond my control. I may not eat bacon after all because something could happen to stop me. God is in control of everything. Nothing can stop him because nothing is more powerful. If he's made his mind up that something will happen, it will happen. If he makes a promise to us, be assured that promise will be kept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Sure God could override everyone's will and just "save" everyone. He could say, "you will accept my love whether you want to or not." In human terms, we call that rape. But it's not rape. Rape is the result of sinful men or women forcing. Jesus was sinless. The love of a sinful man and rape cannot be compared to heavenly sinless love. Rape is someone forcing their "love" upon another despite the one person saying "no". It doesn't matter if the perpetrator meant to rape the other or not. If the one says "no", the other must stop. It really doesn't matter if you can accept GOD's terms or not. You can stomp your feet, roll around on the ground yelling and screaming, or throw any other temper tantrum that you want because you can't have life your way. When your dad tells you you can't borrow the car, you can't borrow the car. It you try and take it anyway, it is stealing and you go to jail. If you want to reject what GOD has to offer you (and it seems that you do because you can't "accept" some portion of it) that is your problem. Some may say that this is "harsh", but it does seem that you are intransigent in your understanding of reality and are unwilling to be taught. GOD is there waiting for you. He is calling to you or you would not be here. He knows if you will respond or not. He calls everyone at least once. For those who don't respond, He hardens. For those who respond, He saves. Make up your mind before it is too late and you are found wanting. Stop whining and choose to believe GOD. Harsh or not, that is your reality. Deal with it. Where is the love of God in this post? Where is the compassion toward another brother? Lastly how is this post not breaking the TOS where it says discuss the subject not the person posting? The love of GOD is Truth. The compassion is contained in the Truth and the admonition. 3 pages of tender loving care is not violated by two or three posts of reality. Most of the "you"s are generic. The subject is being discussed, since the OP said that they had a "problem" accepting GOD's plan. No violation of the TOS has taken place IMO. You are welcome to report me to the mods if you are offended. I am highly offend. The status of his salvation is not up for debate, nor is it the subject of this thread. The OP does not agree with you , so they are not saved. Who are you to make that determination? I made bold the part in question. You bet I am offended. I'm sorry you're offending. Please forgive me. If I offended anyone else, I'm truly sorry that I have offended you. Please forgive me also. Yet Christ offended many with the Truth. I never said that the OP was not saved. I made no such determination. By their deeds you will know them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted August 4, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Sure God could override everyone's will and just "save" everyone. He could say, "you will accept my love whether you want to or not." In human terms, we call that rape. But it's not rape. Rape is the result of sinful men or women forcing. Jesus was sinless. The love of a sinful man and rape cannot be compared to heavenly sinless love. Rape is someone forcing their "love" upon another despite the one person saying "no". It doesn't matter if the perpetrator meant to rape the other or not. If the one says "no", the other must stop. It really doesn't matter if you can accept GOD's terms or not. You can stomp your feet, roll around on the ground yelling and screaming, or throw any other temper tantrum that you want because you can't have life your way. When your dad tells you you can't borrow the car, you can't borrow the car. It you try and take it anyway, it is stealing and you go to jail. If you want to reject what GOD has to offer you (and it seems that you do because you can't "accept" some portion of it) that is your problem. Some may say that this is "harsh", but it does seem that you are intransigent in your understanding of reality and are unwilling to be taught. GOD is there waiting for you. He is calling to you or you would not be here. He knows if you will respond or not. He calls everyone at least once. For those who don't respond, He hardens. For those who respond, He saves. Make up your mind before it is too late and you are found wanting. Stop whining and choose to believe GOD. Harsh or not, that is your reality. Deal with it. Where is the love of God in this post? Where is the compassion toward another brother? Lastly how is this post not breaking the TOS where it says discuss the subject not the person posting? The love of GOD is Truth. The compassion is contained in the Truth and the admonition. 3 pages of tender loving care is not violated by two or three posts of reality. Most of the "you"s are generic. The subject is being discussed, since the OP said that they had a "problem" accepting GOD's plan. No violation of the TOS has taken place IMO. You are welcome to report me to the mods if you are offended. I am highly offend. The status of his salvation is not up for debate, nor is it the subject of this thread. The OP does not agree with you , so they are not saved. Who are you to make that determination? I made bold the part in question. You bet I am offended. I'm sorry you're offending. Please forgive me. If I offended anyone else, I'm truly sorry that I have offended you. Please forgive me also. Yet Christ offended many with the Truth. I never said that the OP was not saved. I made no such determination. By their deeds you will know them. Apologie accepted. I do have a question though. If you were not questioning his salvaltion, then what did you mean by, Make up your mind before it is too late and you are found wanting. Stop whining and choose to believe GOD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I don't believe that God sees into the future. The future doesn't exist yet. Our concept of time is a man-made one created by Einstein's theory of relativity. You can't travel forward in time and you can't travel back in time. You can't see into the future either. There is no future. We are using man-made concepts to make time into something fixed and immutable. God is in complete control, that's how he knows what will happen because he makes it happen and nothing has the power to stop him. He knows who will receive him and who will reject him, not because he has pre-ordained it but because he knows us all so well. We do have free will, but God knows how we will use it. GOD is outside of time. He created it. Of course He can see and know the future. That is how he can see us as new Creatures. I am quite shocked to read what you have said here, OakWood. I guess you never really understand a person when you think you do. Time is a man made concept. It was physicists in the 19th and 20th Centuries who said that time was some sort of dimension. If I tell somebody that tomorrow morning I am going to have bacon for breakfast that's not because I have seen into the future, it's because that's what I have decided to have. I've made my decision so I'll stick to it. However, there are things beyond my control. I may not eat bacon after all because something could happen to stop me. God is in control of everything. Nothing can stop him because nothing is more powerful. If he's made his mind up that something will happen, it will happen. If he makes a promise to us, be assured that promise will be kept. We are not GOD that we should know the future. We are confined by time. GOD is outside of time and CAN see and know the future. He had determined it. Time is a not man made concept. After the fall, GOD Himself determined the life-span of a human being. At the Creation, GOD determined the rising and waning of the sun and moon, the length of a day. Humans may have assigned their own values to measure it, but time is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Sure God could override everyone's will and just "save" everyone. He could say, "you will accept my love whether you want to or not." In human terms, we call that rape. But it's not rape. Rape is the result of sinful men or women forcing. Jesus was sinless. The love of a sinful man and rape cannot be compared to heavenly sinless love. Rape is someone forcing their "love" upon another despite the one person saying "no". It doesn't matter if the perpetrator meant to rape the other or not. If the one says "no", the other must stop. It really doesn't matter if you can accept GOD's terms or not. You can stomp your feet, roll around on the ground yelling and screaming, or throw any other temper tantrum that you want because you can't have life your way. When your dad tells you you can't borrow the car, you can't borrow the car. It you try and take it anyway, it is stealing and you go to jail. If you want to reject what GOD has to offer you (and it seems that you do because you can't "accept" some portion of it) that is your problem. Some may say that this is "harsh", but it does seem that you are intransigent in your understanding of reality and are unwilling to be taught. GOD is there waiting for you. He is calling to you or you would not be here. He knows if you will respond or not. He calls everyone at least once. For those who don't respond, He hardens. For those who respond, He saves. Make up your mind before it is too late and you are found wanting. Stop whining and choose to believe GOD. Harsh or not, that is your reality. Deal with it. Where is the love of God in this post? Where is the compassion toward another brother? Lastly how is this post not breaking the TOS where it says discuss the subject not the person posting? The love of GOD is Truth. The compassion is contained in the Truth and the admonition. 3 pages of tender loving care is not violated by two or three posts of reality. Most of the "you"s are generic. The subject is being discussed, since the OP said that they had a "problem" accepting GOD's plan. No violation of the TOS has taken place IMO. You are welcome to report me to the mods if you are offended. I am highly offend. The status of his salvation is not up for debate, nor is it the subject of this thread. The OP does not agree with you , so they are not saved. Who are you to make that determination? I made bold the part in question. You bet I am offended. I'm sorry you're offending. Please forgive me. If I offended anyone else, I'm truly sorry that I have offended you. Please forgive me also. Yet Christ offended many with the Truth. I never said that the OP was not saved. I made no such determination. By their deeds you will know them. Apologie accepted. I do have a question though. If you were not questioning his salvaltion, then what did you mean by, Make up your mind before it is too late and you are found wanting. Stop whining and choose to believe GOD I think it is very clear. Either accept things the way GOD made them (believe GOD) or stop complaining when the Lord says "Depart from me; I never knew you." (believe in GOD.) There is a difference, and only GOD and the OP knows where he stands. Everyone always jumps to the "judging" position whenever they don't like what another brother or sister says as an admonishment, instruction or warning. It's like playing the race card in the Christian community and it is bogus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted August 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I don't believe that God sees into the future. The future doesn't exist yet. Our concept of time is a man-made one created by Einstein's theory of relativity. You can't travel forward in time and you can't travel back in time. You can't see into the future either. There is no future. We are using man-made concepts to make time into something fixed and immutable. God is in complete control, that's how he knows what will happen because he makes it happen and nothing has the power to stop him. He knows who will receive him and who will reject him, not because he has pre-ordained it but because he knows us all so well. We do have free will, but God knows how we will use it. GOD is outside of time. He created it. Of course He can see and know the future. That is how he can see us as new Creatures. I am quite shocked to read what you have said here, OakWood. I guess you never really understand a person when you think you do. Time is a man made concept. It was physicists in the 19th and 20th Centuries who said that time was some sort of dimension. If I tell somebody that tomorrow morning I am going to have bacon for breakfast that's not because I have seen into the future, it's because that's what I have decided to have. I've made my decision so I'll stick to it. However, there are things beyond my control. I may not eat bacon after all because something could happen to stop me. God is in control of everything. Nothing can stop him because nothing is more powerful. If he's made his mind up that something will happen, it will happen. If he makes a promise to us, be assured that promise will be kept. We are not GOD that we should know the future. We are confined by time. GOD is outside of time and CAN see and know the future. He had determined it. Time is a not man made concept. After the fall, GOD Himself determined the life-span of a human being. At the Creation, GOD determined the rising and waning of the sun and moon, the length of a day. Humans may have assigned their own values to measure it, but time is real. God only knows the future because he can make it happen. He doesn't see into the future like reading a book, the future does not exist (yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 oakwood, may i suggest you start a thread discussing whether God can see into the future or not? this one is getting derailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted August 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted August 4, 2014 oakwood, may i suggest you start a thread discussing whether God can see into the future or not? this one is getting derailed. Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted August 4, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Sure God could override everyone's will and just "save" everyone. He could say, "you will accept my love whether you want to or not." In human terms, we call that rape. But it's not rape. Rape is the result of sinful men or women forcing. Jesus was sinless. The love of a sinful man and rape cannot be compared to heavenly sinless love. Rape is someone forcing their "love" upon another despite the one person saying "no". It doesn't matter if the perpetrator meant to rape the other or not. If the one says "no", the other must stop. It really doesn't matter if you can accept GOD's terms or not. You can stomp your feet, roll around on the ground yelling and screaming, or throw any other temper tantrum that you want because you can't have life your way. When your dad tells you you can't borrow the car, you can't borrow the car. It you try and take it anyway, it is stealing and you go to jail. If you want to reject what GOD has to offer you (and it seems that you do because you can't "accept" some portion of it) that is your problem. Some may say that this is "harsh", but it does seem that you are intransigent in your understanding of reality and are unwilling to be taught. GOD is there waiting for you. He is calling to you or you would not be here. He knows if you will respond or not. He calls everyone at least once. For those who don't respond, He hardens. For those who respond, He saves. Make up your mind before it is too late and you are found wanting. Stop whining and choose to believe GOD. Harsh or not, that is your reality. Deal with it. Where is the love of God in this post? Where is the compassion toward another brother? Lastly how is this post not breaking the TOS where it says discuss the subject not the person posting? The love of GOD is Truth. The compassion is contained in the Truth and the admonition. 3 pages of tender loving care is not violated by two or three posts of reality. Most of the "you"s are generic. The subject is being discussed, since the OP said that they had a "problem" accepting GOD's plan. No violation of the TOS has taken place IMO. You are welcome to report me to the mods if you are offended. I am highly offend. The status of his salvation is not up for debate, nor is it the subject of this thread. The OP does not agree with you , so they are not saved. Who are you to make that determination? I made bold the part in question. You bet I am offended. I'm sorry you're offending. Please forgive me. If I offended anyone else, I'm truly sorry that I have offended you. Please forgive me also. Yet Christ offended many with the Truth. I never said that the OP was not saved. I made no such determination. By their deeds you will know them. Apologie accepted. I do have a question though. If you were not questioning his salvaltion, then what did you mean by, Make up your mind before it is too late and you are found wanting. Stop whining and choose to believe GOD I think it is very clear. Either accept things the way GOD made them (believe GOD) or stop complaining when the Lord says "Depart from me; I never knew you." (believe in GOD.) There is a difference, and only GOD and the OP knows where he stands. Everyone always jumps to the "judging" position whenever they don't like what another brother or sister says as an admonishment, instruction or warning. It's like playing the race card in the Christian community and it is bogus. I completely disagree with your position but will agree to disagree to refrain from further derailing this thread off of it's topic. I apologize to the OP for pulling this thread off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted August 4, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,817 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2014 Blessings dscapp, I read most of the replies in this thread & really did not feel I have anything to add that could help you to understand......Psalm 83 it talking about nations & people in general ,,,,our all knowing Almighty God already knows the choices they will make but yet there are always the "few"individuals that will choose Salvation ,that is where 2 Peter 3:9 speaks about 'individuals" that the Lord is giving every opportunity to choose life...... 2 Peter 3:9King James Version (KJV) 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Is your question really for the Islamists or are you just having trouble with trying to understand "free will' verses pre-destination?I think everyone struggles with this at one time or another....for me ,I came to an understanding that God is simply not bound by space or time as we know it & therefore in the same way He knew each of us before the foundations of the earth were laid down,He also knows us & the choices we will make at a time we have not yet come to.....I believe God is the Great I Am because He "IS" in every aspect of time as we know it (past ,present & future)....,sound a little sci-fi?Well,not really.....because He IS the Alpha & the Omega What does this have to do with your question,,,,,well,it helps me to understand how His Word can speak of(prophesy) entire nations that will perish because they reject him & yet His Word can also comfort us by telling us that His Grace is sufficient & through Jesus he will give it freely to anyone who so chooses tho believe in Him as their Lord & Savior ......even though He knows yours & my decision ,He waits for us(for those He knows will choose Him) What if He would have returned 40 years ago?You & I would not have been Saved?Maybe it would help to think of free will in the positiive sense? Just my little 2 cents,,,,,,you will come to a better understanding by the power of the Holy Spirit,I will pray with you for that With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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