Rapture after 6th seal // MID-TRIB

[iamlamad]

 

We should not get too comfy,and assume we are righteous.

God also said that the land is desolate.

 

Romans 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

 

That is speaking of christians. Not every christian is judged as righteous.

jesse.

 

 

Tribulation and God's wrath are not the same.

That's just simply a fact.

They are two completely different things, and the seven trumpets are part of His Wrath.

Therefore, the rapture is before the seven trumpets and at the sixth seal.

 

True. But the truth is, God's wrath and the days of great tribulation CANNOT be separated, for they will be happening AT THE SAME TIME. God begins pouring out His vials when the great tribulation days are at their peak.

 

LAMAD

[iamlamad]

 

Dscapp.

 

There are only seven trumpets.There is no 8th trumpet.

At the coming Jesus will come with his armies in heaven and Micha'el as chief of the army.

He will sound the last trumpet. At the coming.

 

jesse.

 

You're not understanding something though.

Notice in 1 Thess 5:9 that the church is not appointed to wrath.

The seven trumpets of God is in regards to His wrath.

The tribulation of Christians and God's wrath are not the same.

1 Thess 5:9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

In this particular verse, the translators put "salvation" but Paul's meaning is the rapture. "they" and "them" get sudden destruction, but "we" and "us" get raptured and so MISS the sudden destruction. This is proven by what Paul tells us next: we get to "Live together with Him." HOW? We get raptured and "so shall we ever be with the Lord."

 

LAMAD

[iamlamad]

 

 

I believe Dan 9:27 is when the Anti-Christ signs a seven year peace treaty with Israel.

The Anti-Christ signing the peace treaty opens up the first seal.

There is so much confusion because confusion stems from man and the devil.

Seriously?....... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_seals lol...

 

Preterist view

Historicist view

Futurist view

Idealist view

Branham's view

Watchman’s view

 

 

Rev.6

¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

¹⁴ And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places

 

Have you figured out why that "even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs" phrase is there with that event? And the Greek word olynthos about an unripe fig is there in the NT manuscripts. An unripe fig, or untimely fig, is a winter fig that does not mature, but falls off in the spring. Who and what event might that be pointing to?

 

The way we know the "last trump" of Paul is the the 7th trumpet is because the "last trump" is about the resurrection that will occur on the day of Christ's return per Paul again in 1 Thess.4.

 

...

Your last statement is false doctrine."we" know nothing of the sort. The "last trump" will be the very last trump of the church age, for the moment after the rapture, TIME will be no longer "church age" time, but "Day of the Lord" time. Those pesky dispensations just keep getting in the way!

 

In a way you are right, for Jesus surely does return to get His saints. Paul tells us Jesus "comes." However, this is certainly NOT has Rev. 19 coming.

 

LAMAD

[iamlamad]

You're not understanding something though.

Notice in 1 Thess 5:9 that the church is not appointed to wrath.

The seven trumpets of God is in regards to His wrath.

The tribulation of Christians and God's wrath are not the same.

1 Thess 5:9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

The seven trumpets are not about God's wrath. Don't know who taught you that, but that's not true.

 

The way you should know that is how Satan's host are ruling all the way up to the 7th trumpet. Look at the events in Rev.9 through Rev.11 regarding the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period. A temple is shown, the Gentiles treading the holy city for 42 months which is the time the dragon is given power also per Rev.13, God's two witnesses prophesying against the beast in Jerusalem and causing plagues upon the unbelievers for 1260 days, etc. Those are tribulation upon the saints timing, Satan's wrath, not God's Wrath.

 

God's wrath is shown with the vials, not the trumpets, but His Wrath we are not appointed to per Paul is especially about His Wrath upon the wicked on the last day of this world when our Lord Jesus returns on the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe.

Why can't you just believe John where He tells us the DAy of His wrath has come? John writes this about the great earthquake at the 6th seal. Don't even think of moving the 6th seal to the end - no one has been successful at such a way around the truth of scripture.

 

Next, just go to Joel 1, where Joel is talking about the Day of the Lord (think WRATH) and see where the grass and trees are burned up.  The 1st trumpets are the fulfillment of Joel's prophecy. Is it any wonder then that John starts God's wrath just before the trumpet Judgments? Finally, How could a God of love kill 1/3 of earth's population and it NOT be wrath? Again, don't try to sidestep this issue and tell us John did  not mean physical death. You might as well try to tell us God did not mean it when He said that the Day of the Lord would be when He would destroy the earth and the sinners IN the earth. God CERTAINLY meant what He said: that He would destroy the earth and the sinners in the earth. Trumpet #6 is most certainly speaking of physical death. By the time of the Millennial reign begins, THERE WILL BE NO SINNERS LEFT.

 

So the TRUTH of God's word is that His wrath begins at the 6th seal, before the 70th week has even begun, and CONTINUES and BUILDS until He gets to the bowls of His wrath, where He lets the sinners feel INTENSE wrath.

 

LAMAD

Edited September 6, 2014 by OneLight
No presonal attacks or insults. ToS

[iamlamad]

 

All one has to do is look at ISIS and the persecution of Christians to know that tribulation and God's wrath are not the same..

 

Isa 13:10 The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light.

Matt 24:29-31 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:14-27 "But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down, nor enter his house, to take anything out, 16 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 17 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 18 Pray that it may not happen in winter. 19 For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God created until now, and never will be. 20 And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days. 21 And then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. 22 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. 23 But be on guard; I have told you all things beforehand.

24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

Luke 21:25-28 “There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

Rev 6:12-14 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place

 

Working up backwards:

 

Revelations speaks of seals on a scroll.  I take that to mean all those seals on the scroll has to be broken for the contents of the scroll to happen.  This is describing all the events happening at the pre trib rapture.

 

WRONG! Yes, the seals must be broken before the scroll can be unrolled. Good point. But NONE of the seals are about the rapture of the church. Go back and study Rev 5. It is the CONTEXT of the seals. It will give you the PRECISE timing of the first seal - IF you can believe John.

 

Luke 21:25-28 is also referring to the pre tribulational rapture.

WRONG! Jesus does not talk of the rapture of the church in ANY of the gospels. It was a MYSTERY until Paul wrote of it.

 

Mark 13:14-27 is talking about two events.  The time of the great tribulation when that son of perdition will be revealed, and the time before it happens that the days of the elect will be shortened from seeing it. 

 

I DISAGREE.

 

There is tribulation;  and then there is great tribulation.   TRUE. There is God's wrath, and there are days of great tribulation...and then happen at the SAME TIME. Also there is great tribulation TODAY. How can "tribulation" be any greater than to lose your head? It cannot be any greater: they cannot kill someone twice! However, the great tribulation taking place today is NOT the days of GT Jesus spoke of. They days of the Holocaust were great tribulation, were 6 million were put to death. But even that was not the days of GT Jesus spoke of. Those days will be ONLY after the abomination.

 

The tribulation that the elect will see in their days is when people will say" lo here is Christ" or there which is happening when people point to coming to God wherever there is a "movement of the Spirit" in seeking after a sign.  The elect are not to chase after them.  Some may do it, but God will recover them from further chasing after them by returning to their first love, the Bridegroomand, and rest in Jesus Christ that they are always Spirit-filled because Jesus Christ dwells in us by faith.

 

It is a MYTH that all of the church is "spirit filled." The truth is MUCH of the church is SHORT on the Holy Spirit - just as in the parable of the virgins. In truth, much of the church of today does not even BELIEVE in being filled with the Holy Spirit. They have been deceived.

 

It is because of the falling away from the faith that God has to judge His House first at the pre tribulational rapture event to restore those saved believers that went astray that shall get left behind ( unless they repent in time with His help before the Bridegroom comes ) to the path of righteousness for His name's sake to witness the coming great tribulation.

 

The "falling away" was a terrible translation of 2 Thes 2:3. "Departing"  or "departure" is a much better translation. You are correct here: MANY will be left behind. Some simply because they WOULD NOT BELIEVE in a pretrib rapture. Next, they did not believe Luke 21:36.

 

Matthew 24:29-31 is talking about the pre trib rapture as well.  WRONG! Jesus NEVER spoke of the rapture of the Bride of Christ.

 

Now before some of you disagree, look at how there is an escape and how the time before that escape is hardly depicting what believers would be facing during the great tribulation. 

 

Please explain fully......use scripture in your explanation.

 

Luke 21: ³⁴ And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. ³⁵ For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. ³⁶ Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

Finally, a verse about the rapture! Good!

 

One thing to remember is the fall of Babylon in Revelations 18th chapter.  If you recall that event as what the second angel told the world about, this is the fire that will be sent on the earth when Jesus appear at the pre trib rapture when one third of the earth gets burned up which is exactly the entire Western Hemisphere.  ( Luke 12:49 ) and that is repercussion for not being ready and found abiding in Him by His grace & by His help as stated in Luke 12:40-49 as those saints were fond slain in Babylon, made to rest from their labours as their works shall follow them.

 

Look again:

 

Revelations 14:⁶ And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, ⁷ Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. ⁸ And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. ⁹ And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, ¹⁰ The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: ¹¹ And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

First angel;  the gospel so that every body will know the gospel after the pre trib rapture.

 

Second angel; announcing the fall of Babylon.  Yep.  That quick.

 

Third angel, warning the world of the consequence for taking the mark of the beast so that no one has any excuse fro not knowing that they would be thrown in the lake of fire.

 

Those three angels sets up the hour of trial that shall try all upon the earth.  The fall of Babylon will be the catalyst for the NWO and the coming mark of the beast system for having a bio chip to buy and sell to survive in the New World Order.

 

Anyway, that is how I read those passages you have referred to and I have referred to several scripture to show why the Lord has led me to read them in that way.

 

These three angels give their message AFTER the midpoint abomination, but BEFORE the mark is set up. Their message has NOTHING to do with Paul's rapture.

 

 

Luke 14:15-24 talks about the King's Supper in how some invited were excusing themselves for the cares of this life.  Luke 14:25-35 is Jesus expounding on that by what it means to be His disciples:  to be chosen for the Marriage Supper as they are to lean on Him for help to not be ensnared by the cares of this life to be not willing to go when the Bridegroom comes.  This warning was given to believers and so hardly descriptive of the times when believers are oppressed and persecuted, being starved out and homeless for not having the mark of the beast in order to buy & sell.  Luke 17:26-37 also describes a time when believers will be marrying and given in marriage, and the time they are taken, some have been referred to as being taken while working.  Again hardly descriptive of what the saints will be going through in the great tribulation.

 

So the time to be ready is now when many are falling away from the faith in giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils for believing the lie that they can receive Jesus Christ again after a sign.  Those that God has opened their eyes to such error can still repent by returning to your first love, the Bridegroom, and chase no more after spirits to receive after a sign in the flesh.

 

Matthew 12:39But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

 

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. ² For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. ³ But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. ⁴ For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

 

2 Corinthians 13:⁵ Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

So to avoid becoming a reprobate and a castaway, go before that throne of grace for help to keep your eyes on the Bridegroom and chase no more after those spirits for a sign in the market place, because He shall be coming soon for the ready bride of Christ.

 

Lamad's Answers in color.

[Last Daze]

 

 

Rev.10

⁷ But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

You really should learn what this mystery is. But then, it is a mystery!

 

There are some clues as to what this mystery is. Take, for example, the fact that Satan is cast down right after the 7th trumpet. Take, for example, the fact that the kingdoms of the world are transferred from Satan to Jesus.

 

LAMAD

 

 

 

You continued looking until a stone was cut out without hands, and it struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and crushed them.  Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were crushed all at the same time and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them was found. But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth. Daniel 2:34-35

 

...it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.  Daniel 2:44

 

It sounds more like a crushing than a transference to me.

[iamlamad]

 

 

 

Rev.10

⁷ But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

You really should learn what this mystery is. But then, it is a mystery!

 

There are some clues as to what this mystery is. Take, for example, the fact that Satan is cast down right after the 7th trumpet. Take, for example, the fact that the kingdoms of the world are transferred from Satan to Jesus.

 

LAMAD

 

 

 

You continued looking until a stone was cut out without hands, and it struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and crushed them.  Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were crushed all at the same time and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them was found. But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth. Daniel 2:34-35

 

...it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.  Daniel 2:44

 

It sounds more like a crushing than a transference to me.

 

You are reading the wrong verse. Stick to Rev 11 and read what it says: "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

 

Keep in mind, this is about 3 1/2 years BEFORE Jesus returns as shown in Rev. 19. NO CRUSHING at this time. The reason the kingdoms are transferred is simple: Adam's 6000 year lease will have run out. Satan's ONLY hold to the kingdoms of the world was Adam's lease. Suddenly, at the sounding of the 7th trumpet, there IS NO MORE LEASE, and Satan is then cast down.

 

it is written in a few places in ancient Jewish writings that man would rule the earth for 6 thousand years, since God created everything in 6 days, but God would rule and the earth would have rest, for the 7th thousand years. That would be the millennial reign of Christ.

 

LAMAD

[Last Daze]

The NASB and several other translations use the singular "kingdom": “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ"

 

Its a statement indicating that Christ now rules the earth.  It's the world that becomes His and it's where He establishes His kingdom.  Former kingdoms are crushed.  Not a trace is found of them.  Beast and false prophet...lake of fire.  Satan...abyss.  The earth becomes Christ's domain at the seventh trumpet / vial when He returns.  That's the gist of Rev 11:15.

 

I can't imagine that Jesus would be the least bit interested in the handiwork of Satan and his minions (kingdoms of this world).

[Salty]

I can't imagine that Jesus would be the least bit interested in the handiwork of Satan and his minions (kingdoms of this world).

 

Exactly. Kingdoms of this world becoming The Father's and His Son is an expression for taking Power and Reigning over the earth, with Satan's final beast kingdom on the earth destroyed.

[Salty]

Why can't you just believe John where He tells us the DAy of His wrath has come? John writes this about the great earthquake at the 6th seal. Don't even think of moving the 6th seal to the end - no one has been successful at such a way around the truth of scripture.

 

I've proven where you have tried to totally flip-flop the Rev.11 Scripture with your false insertion of parentheticalism after Rev.11:3.

 

In your above statement, you even prove yourself... wrong!...

 

When you say, "Don't even think of moving the 6th seal to the end," and then you say, "Why can't you just believe John where He tells us the DAy of His wrath has come?", that's showing your obvious confusion, even with your wrong capitalization of "He" put for Apostle John!

 

Just so happens, Christ through His servant Apostle John showed the day of God's wrath is on THAT 6th seal of Rev.6! And that event is hard linked to the events of God's Wrath on the 7th Vial of Rev.16 and events of Rev.19 with the day of Christ's coming, which of course is the Day of The Lord per Apostle Paul and Peter (1 Thess.5; 2 Pet.3:10).

Edited September 6, 2014 by OneLight
No attacking or insulting others