firestormx Posted September 23, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) does it say that it's bad to die by the sword even in the context of the scripture... I've pondered on that for some number of years. Interesting thought, never thought of it like that. However, I look at this way. Jesus is the example we are to follow. Jesus was never violent. Now some may say, hold up a minute, what about when Jesus made the whip, and overturned the money changers tables. wasn't that violent? I say no it was not a violent act, and I'll give you 2 reasons why. 1st, even the pharisees response wasn't about violence but " what sign is this that you show us"? Even the pharisees who had opposed Jesus at every turn recognized it as a sign. A sign, a divinely inspired act (Which by the way is what I've been saying is the only exception) and not a violent act. 2nd, When Jesus was buried, he was put in a rich mans tomb....why? The bible says because it was to fulfill Isaiah 53:9, which says he was buried with the rich because he had done no violence. So back to my point, Jesus never responded with violence and neither did the 12. from the book of Acts onward. Jesus said we are in a new covenant, which included turning the other check, not responding with an eye for an eye, which Jesus said we are not to do. Simply put, motive I think is irrelevant. We are to be known by our love, not because we respond with violence. I don't know about dying from the sword being bad, but David couldn't build the Temple of God because of violence, so clearly there are consequences for violence. Interesting thought, you'll have me thinking on that one for a while. lol Edited September 23, 2014 by firestormx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted September 23, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Share Posted September 23, 2014 firestorm, if you'd like to continue the discussion you and i were having in private, i'm good with that. i think it was far more productive than what has taken place in this thread after. in fact, it seems like it's going backwards now. i'm disappointed in those who were more interested in where you were two pages ago than in where you were by the time we finished talking last night. Thank you for these words. Not necessary though. I am keeping my promise to you and I am considering everything. My POV is simple, I don't know it all and if God is working through you to correct faulty thinking and I ignore it and fight it. Then it's God I'm fighting. If God is trying to teach me, then I pray I learn his will, and understand what he wants me too understand. If I am right in my thinking then I'm sure there is still something that God is trying to teach me that I'm missing. Either way taking all this to God is what I think is the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 your'e a good man, firestorm. and just to reiterate (more for the sake of others who might be reading this), IT'S OK to be a pacifist if that's what God called you to be. the key is to recognize that God calls each of us according to His purpose, and He requires all kinds of people to accomplish His work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall7 Posted September 23, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,385 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 491 Days Won: 5 Joined: 04/25/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 23, 2014 So let me guess... The ones on this thread who are for guns, either own a gun or their wife or husband owns one, and the ones here who are against guns don't own one.I think we're missing a point here, there is nothing wrong with police officers owning guns to protect the public and the military protecting their country, and of course there is nothing wrong with protecting someone or ourselves if we own a gun. However, for the ones who do own a gun as a means of protection "just in case" JUST IN CASE SOMETHING GOES WRONG ...who do you rely on protecting you more efficiently, your gun or God? Do you believe you and your families are safer owning gun? what if you didn't own one do you believe God would let something happen to you or your family before it was your time if you didn't own a gun?That's the whole point of my personal debate, God's Will in a "Christian's" life will be done no matter what, if you have a gun then He might make you use it to protect someone or yourself, but if you don't own one He still will protect you and whoever else He needs to protect. Owning a gun is a personal choice but it won't prolong your life or anyone else's life if it isn't His will to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 i'm for guns and we do not own any. my husband has thought about getting one, but 15 years later, we still haven't. probably because we'd have to keep it locked up anyway, because we have grandchildren who come visit. if it's locked up, i don't expect a robber or assailant would be willing to take a smoke break while i go find the gun and get it loaded. but even if we did have one, and we did have an occasion where we needed to use it, my reliance would still be on God. it might be a tool that God gave me to use, but it would still be God who was in control, regardless of the outcome. we can play the game back and forth til we turn blue in the face about whether God is in control of the circumstances whether you live or die. it doesn't change a thing. God is just as capable of giving a person time to load the gun and take steady aim as He is of bringing around the the elderly lady next door with her cast iron frying pan to knock the intruder unconscious. and God DOES use both, in any given situation. but to assume that a gun is not a tool that God would use to prolong your life is just flat out silly and lacks biblical substance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted September 23, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 23, 2014 So let me guess... The ones on this thread who are for guns, either own a gun or their wife or husband owns one, and the ones here who are against guns don't own one. I think we're missing a point here, there is nothing wrong with police officers owning guns to protect the public and the military protecting their country, and of course there is nothing wrong with protecting someone or ourselves if we own a gun. However, for the ones who do own a gun as a means of protection "just in case" JUST IN CASE SOMETHING GOES WRONG ...who do you rely on protecting you more efficiently, your gun or God? Do you believe you and your families are safer owning gun? what if you didn't own one do you believe God would let something happen to you or your family before it was your time if you didn't own a gun? That's the whole point of my personal debate, God's Will in a "Christian's" life will be done no matter what, if you have a gun then He might make you use it to protect someone or yourself, but if you don't own one He still will protect you and whoever else He needs to protect. Owning a gun is a personal choice but it won't prolong your life or anyone else's life if it isn't His will to do so. I find it more amazing that this discussion is even happening. Go back 150 years or more, in the U.S. wild west, guns were a matter of survival. Guns were for food. Guns were for protection from such wildlife as bears or other aggressive animals. Having some form of weapons has been common through out history. It is only in our modern city life that it is even a question as to whether we have some form of weapon or not. It is not a lack of faith to not own a weapon. It is a lack of common sense to not be prepared. And believe me, if a coyote or coy dog or cougar or bear came up on my property to attack my pet dog, I would deal with it as I believe it is my job, as a human, to care for and protect my animals. This reminds me of a story in the bible, when Elijah was afraid of Jezebel, and went to sit by a brook. God sent ravens to feed Elijah. Now, if a grocery store had been two blocks away, stocked with an abundance of food, do you think God would have sent the ravens? Or is asking God to miraculously provide when a grocery store is within walking distance, a presumptuous request. Sometimes, demanding God do a miracle because we are too lazy, or unwilling to prepare is wrong. It is not always a matter of faith but of our own unwillingness. If God specifically tells a person not to own a gun, then there is a reason and it would be perhaps a lack of faith to not trust God, but to purchase a weapon. But, if God did not say this, and we presume on God rather then prepare for our needs ourselves, then that is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall7 Posted September 23, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,385 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 491 Days Won: 5 Joined: 04/25/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 23, 2014 . but to assume that a gun is not a tool that God would use to prolong your life is just flat out silly and lacks biblical substance.Sure it could be a tool He uses to prolong ones life, but He would also prolong it using other means than a gun if we didn't happen to own one. So in other words gun or no gun the outcome is the same, owning one is a personal choice, is it a Godly choice or a personal choice? Does it make us feel superior to own one? That's what we have to ask ourselves, if the choice is made out of pride then might as well throw that gun away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 ya know, this whole discussion reminds me of someone i can't help but want to tell about. her name was eddie rothwell (short for edna). she was my next door neighbor when i was a little girl... and she was ancient. but i loved her weathered old face, and her long white hair that she kept rolled up in a bun so tight that it gave her an instant face lift. she'd been like a favorite grandmother from a time when i wasn't even old enough to walk. she had a two bedroom house, but she always slept on her sofa in the living room. the bedrooms were for company i guess. or storage. eddie smoked like a freight train and kept a loaded pistol on the end table next to her couch. it was always there. always. and nobody ever touched it. not me, not my brothers, not eddies grandchildren. we all knew better. we were all taught that it was a dangerous weapon and was for her protection. she never touched it much either, except maybe to clean it or whatever you do to maintain guns and make sure they'll work when needed. she never had to. she died in her sleep from natural causes when i was a teenager, but there had never been a break-in or an attempt on her life. we'd never keep a loaded gun in the house these days, because kids aren't taught to respect guns anymore. they aren't taught what they are or what they're used for. and a loaded weapon in a place where children might get to it is cause for all kinds of legal crap. but anyway, my point is, she had a gun. she knew how to use it. she didn't live in fear, she owned a precaution. she didn't live by the sword, but she knew how to protect herself if she ever needed to. she wasn't violent... she lived a life of peace and gave everyone around her a sense of peace. and she trusted God. she loved God, she relied on Him, and she kept a bible right next to her gun on that table. so you could say she had two weapons... two swords... she had faith in God to keep her from harm, and had faith that if she was ever in harms way, that He would keep her aim straight. i miss that old woman. what a blessing she was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 . but to assume that a gun is not a tool that God would use to prolong your life is just flat out silly and lacks biblical substance. Sure it could be a tool He uses to prolong ones life, but He would also prolong it using other means than a gun if we didn't happen to own one. So in other words gun or no gun the outcome is the same, owning one is a personal choice, is it a Godly choice or a personal choice? Does it make us feel superior to own one? That's what we have to ask ourselves, if the choice is made out of pride then might as well through that gun away. no, i think the question here is, does it make you feel superior NOT to own one? and the second question (to which the answer appears obvious to me, but i could be wrong), do you ASSUME that those who own guns feel superior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted September 23, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 However, for the ones who do own a gun as a means of protection "just in case" JUST IN CASE SOMETHING GOES WRONG ...who do you rely on protecting you more efficiently, your gun or God? Do you believe you and your families are safer owning gun? what if you didn't own one do you believe God would let something happen to you or your family before it was your time if you didn't own a gun? That's the whole point of my personal debate, God's Will in a "Christian's" life will be done no matter what, if you have a gun then He might make you use it to protect someone or yourself, but if you don't own one He still will protect you and whoever else He needs to protect. Owning a gun is a personal choice but it won't prolong your life or anyone else's life if it isn't His will to do so. With that logic, do you have insurance? Are you trusting in insurance or God? Jesus told His disciples before He was taken into custody to arm themselves. Why? Luke 22 36 And He said to them, But now, he who has a purse, let him take it , and likewise his wallet. And he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must yet be accomplished in Me, "And he was reckoned among the transgressors"; for the things concerning Me have an end. 38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And He said to them, It is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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