The Seven Seals

[Enoch2021]

Salty made an observation which I believe many good scholars have done, that the seven seals have a language and imagery which corresponds to all other sets of seven in Revelation. The seven churches, seals, trumpets, angels, plagues, thunders etc.

They all seem to culminate with the Lord's return or some similar end.

 

The idea that all of Revelation is sequential from beginning to end, seems like a logical approach, but too simplistic, as illustrated by the numerous and confusing interpretations.

 

If we try Salty's view, we will be surprised how it all ties together, and that each set symbolizes a different aspect covering the same time period from beginning to end. The individual sequential reckoning does not allow any further details to fall into place.

 

I would compare this style of writing very similar to Moses in Genesis who gives more than one account of creation, but going into detail of specific events with each, so that the chapters combined, not in sequential order, make the complete story.

 

 

 

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Salty made an observation which I believe many good scholars have done, that the seven seals have a language and imagery which corresponds to all other sets of seven in Revelation. The seven churches, seals, trumpets, angels, plagues, thunders etc.

 

They all seem to culminate with the Lord's return or some similar end.

 

 

"Seeming" and "Actual" Reality are two completely different animals.

 

And there are a Metric Ton more " 7's " in the Book of Revelation either explicit or hidden (construction of verses {categories, items, et al}) than you could shake a 2x4 @.  I tried one time....it was well over 70.

 

 

The idea that all of Revelation is sequential from beginning to end, seems like a logical approach, but too simplistic, as illustrated by the numerous and confusing interpretations. 

 

 

Another "seems".   Too simplistic?  How so?  Are you familiar with Occam's Razor?  And what does "Simplistic" have to do with anything?

 

So, you're saying that the reason there are numerous and confusing interpretations is due to it's Simplicity??  

 

What renders the sequential approach "illogical"/erroneous, specifically.....?

 

 

I can give a description/explanation of building my house: 1. dig the foundation, 2. pour the concrete, 3. frame the walls, 4. frame the roof, 5. Then go into the detailed specifications of my garage: size/shape/ work benches (type/dimensions et al)/exercise equipment (type/location/ et al)/ Tool Areas and (type/amount/ et al). Then get on with the rest of the building explanation.  

Does the fact that I paused to give you a detailed look @ my garage in any way impact the sequential nature of building my house?

 

Does Scripture do this?  Does the Book of Revelation do this?  Lets take a look...

 

We get the first 6 Seals opened that run in sequential order from Rev 6:1 - 6:12.  Then what happens?  We get a "pause" describing the events of the 6th Seal until when.... 

 

(Revelation 8:1) "And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour."

 

Does it happen again?  The First Trumpet Sounds in Rev 8:8 up to the 6th Trumpet in Rev 9:13.  When does the 7th Trumpet sound? .....

 

(Revelation 11:15) "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

 

Same sort of motif again, eh?  "A Pause" between the 6th and 7th.  See a pattern?  It does happen again in the Vials but it's somewhat short and obscure...see if you can find it    .

 

Now can you IPSO FACTO conclude from the outline above that just because there is "A Pause" (a Breath) if you will, that this leads to any suggestion whatsoever....that these are out of Sequential Order?  Or that one set of events are @ the same time or within the other?

 

If so, I would really like to hear the Logical Framework.....? 

 

 

If we try Salty's view, we will be surprised how it all ties together, and that each set symbolizes a different aspect covering the same time period from beginning to end. The individual sequential reckoning does not allow any further details to fall into place.

 

 

huh?  This is a "Color Commentary" with Four Baseless Assertion (Fallacies).

 

I tried it and Rendered it bunk IN TOTO, specifically. SEE, here:

 

 

 

 

 

Please refute any aspect, specifically.....?

 

 

I would compare this style of writing very similar to Moses in Genesis who gives more than one account of creation, but going into detail of specific events with each, so that the chapters combined, not in sequential order, make the complete story.

 

 

For instance, specifically....?  And then connect it with Revelation....?  Then connect it Specifically and show how "your" postulate reveals that the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets, and 7 Vials are within each other and/or occur @ the same time/place.....?

 

 

regards

[Serving]

Enoch,

 

The trumps & vials are most definitely the same regardless of what you can not see yet.

 

There is no need to try and make it so complicated, because it's really quite simple,

 

VIALS

 

Revelation 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

It is done, the 7 angels have all released their vials, only one more thing to go

 

Revelation 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

 

Notice the voices & thunders & lightnings & earthquake

 

Revelation 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

 

Notice all the world's cities are now rubble from that earthquake, Babylon the great is destroyed, mans empire is no more, overturned in one day .. the day of the 2nd coming.

 

Revelation 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

 

Revelation 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

 

Take note of the HAIL.

 

What should this tell us?

 

Obviously that the empire of Satan / man has been forcefully ended, which in turn only means that Christ has now taken direct control over earth .. and all in one day / hour. 

 

Since Christ only does this once, there is no doubting this is His day of vengeance & wrath, and the only end result of that day since Satan & man's empire is now destroyed is with Christ directly ruling over planet earth  

 

 

Keep in mind the voices & thunders & lightnings & earthquake AND HAIL..

 

 

TRUMPS

 

 

Revelation 11

 

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

Voices in heaven declaring the overthrown kingdoms of the world are now Christ's which correlates with all the world's cities being destroyed by that earthquake in the vials.

 

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

 

 

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

 

The day set aside for Christ Himself to overthrow the world and take direct control, whose overthrow took place with the great earthquake which destroyed Babylon the Great. 

 

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

Christ comes with His reward, His day of wrath on the world is the very same day of reward to His saints who were gathered into the clouds

 

19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

 

Notice that now?

 

Even if I leave off on other critical points, the below can not be denied :

 

lightnings & voices & thunderings & earthquake & HAIL occurring on the BOTH the 7th trump & the 7th vial whose context is all tied together with the 2nd coming event which is a one time event.

 

And seeing this one time event occurs in BOTH the 7th trump & 7th vial, then they are obviously the same event.

 

 

The 6th trump & vial should really confirm it for people without needing to invoke the 7th trump & vial since WW3 which quickly leads to Armageddon is clearly described in trump & seal #6.

 

 

All that leaves now is the meaning of the 7th seal.

 

 

 

 

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

 

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Did you accidentally forget to comment about "your" sea theory.  The rebuttal and clear contrast between the 2nd Trumpet "Thirds" and the 6th Vial "All" by itself renders your position IN TOTO a contradiction; Ergo.....False. 

 

 

lightnings & voices & thunderings & earthquake & HAIL occurring on the BOTH the 7th trump & the 7th vial whose context is all tied together with the 2nd coming event which is a one time event.

And seeing this one time event occurs in BOTH the 7th trump & 7th vial, then they are obviously the same event.

 

 

You also missed this...

 

(Revelation 11:15-19) "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.  {16} And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,  {17} Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.  {18} And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.  {19} And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

(Revelation 16:17-21) "And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.  {18} And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.  {19} And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.  {20} And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.  {21} And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."

This is a Primary School Compare and Contrast: "Let's Paint by the Numbers" (just a few)....

7th Trumpet ("Great Voices" "in heaven"), 7th Vial ( "A Great Voice", "out of the Temple").  Are these the same?

 

Are Many Voices coming from a Bank the same as One VOICE coming from inside the Vault?

 

7th Trumpet (24 Elders), 7th Vial ( No 24 Elders).  Are these the same?

 

Is a party with a 24 Piece Band the same as a party with only a DJ?

 

7th Trumpet ("an earthquake"), 7th Vial ("a Great Earthquake"....such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.) Are these the same?

Are you saying that a Magnitude 3.4 Earthquake that happened 7 hours ago in Puerto Rico is the Same as a Magnitude 9.5 Earthquake?  Since GOD'S WORD is UBER Precise....What distinguishes the 7th Trumpet Earthquake from the 7th Vial Earthquake.... Anything?

 

 

Does this seem like an Increasing of Intensity to you?

 

 

Same concept here...

7th Trumpet (Great Hail), 7th Vial (Great Hail..... every stone about the weight of a talent).  Is there a Difference Here?

We just had a Hail Storm not long ago ....they were about the size of a Nickel.  Down in Oklahoma where my brother-in-Law lives, they get Hail Storms on occasion the size of Baseballs.

How Much does a Talent Weigh?

Does this seem like an Increasing of Intensity to you?

 

 

 

Is a Cessna the same as a B17 Flying Fortress.....because they're aircraft and both have wings and landing gear?

 

Is a Skiff the same as the U.S.S. Missouri .....because they're both boats and "SEA" worthy?

 

Is the recent Eruptions of the Kilauea Volcano (Hawaii) the same as The Mount Saint Helen's Eruption in 1980.....because they're both Volcanic Eruptions?

 

Is the Battle of the Bulge the same as Little Bighorn.....because they're both Battles?  Did they occur @ the same time?

[Serving]

Enoch,

 

 

 

Did you accidentally forget to comment about "your" sea theory.  The rebuttal and clear contrast between the 2nd Trumpet "Thirds" and the 6th Vial "All" by itself renders your position IN TOTO a contradiction; Ergo.....False.

 

 

 

 

I decided the distractions in your questions were taking away from the main point where I pointed out that both scriptures ( 7th trump & 7th vial) contain the description of the same one time only event.

 

Other words, once the main point is confirmed, all your analogies & questions thereafter become null & void anyway, thus I didn't want to waste time.

 

 

Thus in your opening "rebuttal", this is what you accuse me of mistaking: 

 

 

 

7th Trumpet ("Great Voices" "in heaven"), 7th Vial ( "A Great Voice", "out of the Temple").  Are these the same?

 

 

 

We need to first listen .. for then we can seek .. then once that is done, we should be able to see.

 

 

Now, you attempted to undo the relationship I proposed between the two scriptures with that above opening statement.

 

 

So that is the foundation of your "rebuttal"??

 

 

Enoch, you should have read the very next verse after Rev 16:17 .. you have greatly erred and voided all your points even before you began!! 

 

 

Behold:

 

 

Here are the voices in heaven that I referred to:

 

 

(Revelation 11:15-19) "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.  {16} And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,  {17} Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.  {18} And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.  {19} And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

 

 

Example 2

 

 

Here is the throne voice that you erred on:

 

 

(Revelation 16:17-21) "And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.  

 

<<Pause>> 

 

And NOW .. here are those voices in heaven SEQUENCE of which I mentioned, which correlate with Revelation 11:15 as I pointed out earlier: 

 

<<Continued:>> ..

 

{18} And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.  {19} And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.  {20} And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

 

<<Pause>>

 

And since these two scriptures complement the other .. we should find hail somewhere in this descriptive for it to be so ..

 

Now grab onto your seats, because  >>

 

{21} And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."

 

 

Notice one explained the great earthquake and the other explained the great hail?

 

 

Enoch, until you can reconcile the fact that both scriptures (trump & vial #7) contain the same descriptive of a one time only event , the rest of your arguments remain null & void.

 

 

Nevertheless, let me comment on something I can't hold back ..

 

 

 

7th Trumpet (Great Hail), 7th Vial (Great Hail..... every stone about the weight of a talent).  Is there a Difference Here?

We just had a Hail Storm not long ago ....they were about the size of a Nickel.  Down in Oklahoma where my brother-in-Law lives, they get Hail Storms on occasion the size of Baseballs.

How Much does a Talent Weigh?

 

We're not dealing with nickels & baseballs here Enoch, A talent = 58.9 kilograms!!

 

 

 

Does this seem like an Increasing of Intensity to you?

 

 

 

Considering this great hail will be world wide, and weighing in on average 58.9 kilos .. what do you reckon?

 

 

And as you thinly veiled:

 

 

 

This is a Primary School Compare and Contrast

 

 

 

It sure turned out that way .. please understand, always look at what you are debating before you leap .. thus avoiding further injury.

 

Regards.
 

[Serving]

For anyone interested:

 

 

 

(Revelation 11:15-19) "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.  {16} And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,  {17} Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.  {18} And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.  {19} And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."
 

 

 

FIRST:

 

Focus on the events only that are within the scriptures above  .. the rest, being the "inserted dialogue"  is "merely" the commentary regarding the events .. though very important and complimentary to overall events, they are still only the inserted responses / references to said events .. don't get side tracked .. focus on the sequence of events first, then the rest should fall into place on it's own and as written .. we have to see the events first before understanding the "inserted dialogue" correctly ..

 

 

Now .. without the dialogue & focussing only on the event:

 

 

The event detail:

 

 

>>  "And the seventh angel sounded, And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

 

 

 

That was the trumpet example above. That brief message is the sum of the events without the "inserted dialogue".

 

 

 

Now for the vials:

 

 

(Revelation 16:17-21) "And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.  {18} And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.  {19} And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.  {20} And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.  {21} And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."

 

 

 

The event detail:

 

>> And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air, And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; a great earthquake, <<gap>> {21} And  great hail :

 

 

Same EVENT SEQUENCE!!

 

 

Notice the only difference between Revelation 16 & Revelation 11 is the added commentary &  the detail PERSPECTIVE & the <<gap>>?

 

 

One commentary (Rev 11:15-19) is a heavenly based perspective during the event whose "event details" are generalized .. concentrating instead on the commentary ("inserted dialogue") already pointed out. 

 

 

The other commentary (Rev 16: 17-21) focusses on the destructive forces themselves .. hence the <<gap>> found within the vial explanation between and there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings, (and a great) earthquake, <<gap>>  (Dialogue on GREAT earthquake DETAILS) and great hail << gap>> (Dialogue for great hail DETAILS) .. that's the only difference!! 

 

 

Notice I bracketed the "(and a great) earthquake" part?

 

 

The "(and a great)" part is inserted dialogue only because it is the beginning of the sentence of the whole dialogue (description) itself .. look for yourselves .. and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 

 

 

Thus the "gap" only exists because of the added detail explaining  the unrivalled earthquake & then the unrivalled hail.

 

 

So again let us take away the added detail here likewise (intensity, weight variables etc) and focus again on the event itself .. and if they are the same, then the "event informational sequence"  should read the very same for both trump & vial event .. 

 

 

MINUS the "gap" now:

 

 

>> And there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail

 

 

RESULT:

 

 

An EXACT correlation.

 

 

Trumps & vials ARE describing the same event.

 

 

Once that is understood, the scriptures then explain themselves with both examples complementing the other all the way through the 7 trumps & vials of the SEVEN (not 14) angels.

 

 

Regards.

 

 

 

[Salty]

For anyone interested:

 

 

 

(Revelation 11:15-19) "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.  {16} And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,  {17} Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.  {18} And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.  {19} And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

 

 

 

FIRST:

 

Focus on the events only that are within the scriptures above  .. the rest, being the "inserted dialogue"  is "merely" the commentary regarding the events .. though very important and complimentary to overall events, they are still only the inserted responses / references to said events .. don't get side tracked .. focus on the sequence of events first, then the rest should fall into place on it's own and as written .. we have to see the events first before understanding the "inserted dialogue" correctly ..

 

 

Now .. without the dialogue & focussing only on the event:

 

 

The event detail:

 

 

>>  "And the seventh angel sounded, And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

 

 

 

That was the trumpet example above. That brief message is the sum of the events without the "inserted dialogue".

 

 

 

Now for the vials:

 

 

(Revelation 16:17-21) "And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.  {18} And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.  {19} And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.  {20} And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.  {21} And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."

 

 

 

The event detail:

 

>> And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air, And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; a great earthquake, <<gap>> {21} And  great hail :

 

 

Same EVENT SEQUENCE!!

 

 

Notice the only difference between Revelation 16 & Revelation 11 is the added commentary &  the detail PERSPECTIVE & the <<gap>>?

 

 

One commentary (Rev 11:15-19) is a heavenly based perspective during the event whose "event details" are generalized .. concentrating instead on the commentary ("inserted dialogue") already pointed out. 

 

 

The other commentary (Rev 16: 17-21) focusses on the destructive forces themselves .. hence the <<gap>> found within the vial explanation between and there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings, (and a great) earthquake, <<gap>>  (Dialogue on GREAT earthquake DETAILS) and great hail << gap>> (Dialogue for great hail DETAILS) .. that's the only difference!! 

 

 

Notice I bracketed the "(and a great) earthquake" part?

 

 

The "(and a great)" part is inserted dialogue only because it is the beginning of the sentence of the whole dialogue (description) itself .. look for yourselves .. and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 

 

 

Thus the "gap" only exists because of the added detail explaining  the unrivalled earthquake & then the unrivalled hail.

 

 

So again let us take away the added detail here likewise (intensity, weight variables etc) and focus again on the event itself .. and if they are the same, then the "event informational sequence"  should read the very same for both trump & vial event .. 

 

 

MINUS the "gap" now:

 

 

>> And there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail

 

 

RESULT:

 

 

An EXACT correlation.

 

 

Trumps & vials ARE describing the same event.

 

 

Once that is understood, the scriptures then explain themselves with both examples complementing the other all the way through the 7 trumps & vials of the SEVEN (not 14) angels.

 

 

Regards.

 

Yes, and although some events on the 7th trumpet and 7th vial etc., are not mentioned with the 6th Seal events, we know that is the same timing of the 7th trumpet and 7th vial also:

 

Rev.6

¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

¹⁴ And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

¹⁵ And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

¹⁶ And said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him That sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

¹⁷ For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

 

 

In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, our Lord Jesus was giving us those SIGNS of Revelation, and there isn't 21 of them written there, but only 7, the last one being the following, which correlates with the events on that 6th Seal. The following is the final sign He gave in His Olivet Discourse for the end of this present world at His coming and the gathering of His Church:

 

Matt.24

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

³¹ And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

[Serving]

 

For anyone interested:

 

 

 

(Revelation 11:15-19) "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.  {16} And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,  {17} Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.  {18} And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.  {19} And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

 

 

 

FIRST:

 

Focus on the events only that are within the scriptures above  .. the rest, being the "inserted dialogue"  is "merely" the commentary regarding the events .. though very important and complimentary to overall events, they are still only the inserted responses / references to said events .. don't get side tracked .. focus on the sequence of events first, then the rest should fall into place on it's own and as written .. we have to see the events first before understanding the "inserted dialogue" correctly ..

 

 

Now .. without the dialogue & focussing only on the event:

 

 

The event detail:

 

 

>>  "And the seventh angel sounded, And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

 

 

 

That was the trumpet example above. That brief message is the sum of the events without the "inserted dialogue".

 

 

 

Now for the vials:

 

 

(Revelation 16:17-21) "And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.  {18} And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.  {19} And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.  {20} And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.  {21} And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."

 

 

 

The event detail:

 

>> And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air, And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; a great earthquake, <<gap>> {21} And  great hail :

 

 

Same EVENT SEQUENCE!!

 

 

Notice the only difference between Revelation 16 & Revelation 11 is the added commentary &  the detail PERSPECTIVE & the <<gap>>?

 

 

One commentary (Rev 11:15-19) is a heavenly based perspective during the event whose "event details" are generalized .. concentrating instead on the commentary ("inserted dialogue") already pointed out. 

 

 

The other commentary (Rev 16: 17-21) focusses on the destructive forces themselves .. hence the <<gap>> found within the vial explanation between and there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings, (and a great) earthquake, <<gap>>  (Dialogue on GREAT earthquake DETAILS) and great hail << gap>> (Dialogue for great hail DETAILS) .. that's the only difference!! 

 

 

Notice I bracketed the "(and a great) earthquake" part?

 

 

The "(and a great)" part is inserted dialogue only because it is the beginning of the sentence of the whole dialogue (description) itself .. look for yourselves .. and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 

 

 

Thus the "gap" only exists because of the added detail explaining  the unrivalled earthquake & then the unrivalled hail.

 

 

So again let us take away the added detail here likewise (intensity, weight variables etc) and focus again on the event itself .. and if they are the same, then the "event informational sequence"  should read the very same for both trump & vial event .. 

 

 

MINUS the "gap" now:

 

 

>> And there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail

 

 

RESULT:

 

 

An EXACT correlation.

 

 

Trumps & vials ARE describing the same event.

 

 

Once that is understood, the scriptures then explain themselves with both examples complementing the other all the way through the 7 trumps & vials of the SEVEN (not 14) angels.

 

 

Regards.

 

Yes, and although some events on the 7th trumpet and 7th vial etc., are not mentioned with the 6th Seal events, we know that is the same timing of the 7th trumpet and 7th vial also:

 

Rev.6

¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

¹⁴ And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

¹⁵ And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

¹⁶ And said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him That sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

¹⁷ For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

 

 

In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, our Lord Jesus was giving us those SIGNS of Revelation, and there isn't 21 of them written there, but only 7, the last one being the following, which correlates with the events on that 6th Seal. The following is the final sign He gave in His Olivet Discourse for the end of this present world at His coming and the gathering of His Church:

 

Matt.24

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

³¹ And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

 

Precisely...

 

If we peeled open the 6th seal .. those scriptures you posted would be some of the "files" we could "unzip" (extract) and read said events within the 6th seal.

 

The 7th seal is a total break from the rest of the theme of the other 6 seals which consist of sequenced LITERAL events.. thus the 6th seal is the finale of the sequenced  LITERAL events of the 6 seals  consisting of the 2nd coming & destruction of this current world system ..  .. the 7th seal is not the same ..

 

The 7th seal deals with added information .. the 7th seal is the nothing more than a recap and information "gap filler" concerning our times .. it is for us .. the last days saints to recognize because we are the ones about to go through it!! 

 

Blessings.

[Serving]

The scripture directly below is concerning the angels with the vials .. If the vials are separate events from the trumpets ..

 

 

Revelation 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

 

 

Then why does the 7th trumpet herald the opening of the temple of which apparently concerned 'only' the "vial angels" criteria in the above?

 

 

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
 

 

Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

[Watching for Jesus]

Hi Serving.

 

I agree with you that the 7 trumpets and the 7 vials are concurrent events. Your point about the temple being opened after the 7th trumpet means that the 7 vials must have been fulfilled also.

 

Jeff

[Salty]

 

 

Precisely...

 

If we peeled open the 6th seal .. those scriptures you posted would be some of the "files" we could "unzip" (extract) and read said events within the 6th seal.

 

The 7th seal is a total break from the rest of the theme of the other 6 seals which consist of sequenced LITERAL events.. thus the 6th seal is the finale of the sequenced  LITERAL events of the 6 seals  consisting of the 2nd coming & destruction of this current world system ..  .. the 7th seal is not the same ..

 

The 7th seal deals with added information .. the 7th seal is the nothing more than a recap and information "gap filler" concerning our times .. it is for us .. the last days saints to recognize because we are the ones about to go through it!! 

 

Blessings.

 

 

I agree, for the opening of the Seals by The Lamb (Jesus) sort of reveals an info structure of the events, an intro or type of short summary of events, with greater details following with the trumpet and vial chapters.

 

By the events within the last 3 trumpet - woe periods, our Lord Jesus was giving us the final order leading into the great tribulation culminating with the ending of it with His second coming. So those events from the 5th trumpet to the 7th trumpet will help establish this order in the seals also.