Copying software illegally at work?

[carlos123]

Hi everyone,

I am facing a situation at work that I would very much appreciate input on from the standpoint of discerning what Christ would have me do at my work. I was hired less than a month ago and am facing various software installation and licencing issues.

Let me give some background on this.....

We have 5 computers and 1 lap top currently hooked up to a Windows 2000 Server. Most of the other computers are running Windows XP, one is Windows 98. The disks for these various operating systems are not around anywhere that I know of. As far as I know these are all legal copies though there is the possibility that they are not given that the computers in question where custom built for our company and not bought from a dealer like HP, Compac, Dell, or any other such company.

Let's assume for a minute that everything is legal at this point.

There is a need to install updates from time to time. When I install the updates, and I am the person who will be handling this, I have to agree to a licence agreement as part of the installation process. The licence agreement is very specific in it's wording and very clear on what is legally allowed or not. My boss does not have the time to sit there and come over every time I may need to install something to click on the Agree button to proceed with the installation. Even if he could stop by for a minute he certainly does not have the time or inclination to read each Licence agreement in it's totality. I dare say that virtually no one in small offices (under 20 people let's say) does that. It has been my experience that 99.99% of people install software by just clicking past licence agreements without even bothering to read them.

Personally if I agree to something I stick with it and as such I have tended to read such agreements carefully.

My boss is like most bosses in not thinking it a big deal to copy software illegally for internal use on our computer network. In other words if the software says it cannot be used on more than one computer or by one user but we can do so by just reinstalling on another computer without anyone knowing he would rather do that than pay an extra $100-300 per computer that the software is installed on to legally licence it's use. Such illegal copying is quite rampant and accepted in most small businesses.

So my first questions for you all is .... how should I as a Christian deal with accepting licence agreements from software that needs to be installed? If I agree to the licence agreement and then my boss wants to do something different should I put my foot down at the risk of loosing my job (bear in mind that I wil encounter this type of situation in virtually every small business out there)? Should I move to a different career where I will have nothing to do with installing sofware or otherwise dealing with computer needs at a business?

On the one hand I don't want to break agreements I make by clicking on the Agree buttons during software installations. On the other hand I don't want to become a Microsoft representative in practice by forcing the company I work for to abide by licencing agreements that represent Microsoft's attempts to squeeze more and more money out of everyone that it can.

Microsoft has without a doubt, used it's monopoly position in the industry, to practcally force VAR (value added reseller's like HP, Dell, and others) to offer their PC's with Windows installed. It practically forces consumers to use their operating system and become more and more dependant on it such that they must then pay and pay to upgrade to newer releases.

Personally I use Linux at home and will be moving us toward Linux as much as I can to help free our company from these issues. My boss really doesn't care as long as our company stays on it's course to greater profits.

But Linux is unable to run some of the applications we use that only run under Windows.

So what do I do? I am stuck between our company needs in terms of not wanting or having much money to spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars to keep up with proper licencing and Microsoft's onerous licencing policies which are meant to sqeeze every penny they can from consumers.

It would seem that there is nothing immoral or ungodly about doing things to facilitate illegal use of sofware given that such things involve nothing more than moving files around, cliking the mouse here and there, and other innocous activities that are not wrong to do in and of themselves. Apart from clicking on the Agree button during installation of course as mentioned above.

Any input would be appreciated.

I want to do the right thing by God even if it means getting another, less computer centric job. I don't want to violate my conscience. I do want to do a great job for my boss. I don't care what other Christians do or do not do as a matter of practice if it does not align with what God would want done. So many "Christians" do no more or less than any unbeliever interested in covering his rear would do in this kind of situation that "Christians" in general and what they do means little of anything in terms of providing an example of what Christ would do.

My only interest is in discerning what God would want me to do as a committed Christian in the workplace under the kind of scenario that I have mentioned. I don't care what that is. I will do it! Even if it means changing careers or getting a different job. I don't righly care as long as I am doing what God wants.

My job is not my vocation. My vocation is to be an ambassador for Christ and to please Him. My job is just a means to pay bills, to be a good example by working for my keep, to provide for my family and other such things. Although I enjoy my job and prefer to work at jobs I enjoy it is more important that I do what is right by God even if it results in my doing work that I don't enjoy as much.

I do want to pursue my own business at some point but right now I can't do that.

Carlos

[Ovedya]

Brother Carlos,

It sounds to me like you already have the answer to your question here. Your job is not your vocation. Your being an abassador of Christ is your true vocation.

If your boss is asking you to do something illegal as part of your normal day-to-day business, then you have the right to refuse. Software licensing is really not a tricky issue, folks just make it that way. If the law says that it's illegal to have more than one copy without paying for a license, then it's illegal. There is not middle ground here, as far as I can see. Just because other people do it, or it's a common practice in smaller offices, doesn't mean that it's legal or legally acceptable under certain conditions.

But as far as I know updates to Windows operating systems do not require the purchase of a new license. You only purchase new licenses when you need to load a copy of the OS to another machine. I get automatic updates to my OS at the office all the time. A lot of that language may be just re-iteration of the original agreement. So there may not even be an issue here.

If you do have to buy new licenses for other machines, then you do have the legal and moral obligation to inform your boss so that he can make the appropriate decision. If he insists that you do something illegal as a normal course of your work, then you should refuse. And he cannot legally threaten your job for your refusal to do something that is immoral or illegal.

Much Grace,

~O

[RustyAngeL]

Brother Carlos,

It sounds to me like you already have the answer to your question here.  Your job is not your vocation.  Your being an abassador of Christ is your true vocation.

If your boss is asking you to do something illegal as part of your normal day-to-day business, then you have the right to refuse.  Software licensing is really not a tricky issue, folks just make it that way.  If the law says that it's illegal to have more than one copy without paying for a license, then it's illegal.  There is not middle ground here, as far as I can see.  Just because other people do it, or it's a common practice in smaller offices, doesn't mean that it's legal or legally acceptable under certain conditions.

But as far as I know updates to Windows operating systems do not require the purchase of a new license.  You only purchase new licenses when you need to load a copy of the OS to another machine.  I get automatic updates to my OS at the office all the time.  A lot of that language may be just re-iteration of the original agreement.  So there may not even be an issue here.

You are not only covered by the law for not doing this but God will honor you in your honesty.  No one, boss or anyone has the right to ask you to do something illegal.  And if you get caught...your boss is not going to take the fall for you nor will he back you up.  I think you already know what to do, just do it and let God handle the rest.

If you do have to buy new licenses for other machines, then you do have the legal and moral obligation to inform your boss so that he can make the appropriate decision.  If he insists that you do something illegal as a normal course of your work, then you should refuse.  And he cannot legally threaten your job for your refusal to do something that is immoral or illegal.

Much Grace,

~O

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Budman]

I don't want to violate my conscience.

Your conscience is the still small voice of God.

God gave you your conscience for situations such as what you are describing.

Follow it.

warm regards

-bud

[Keith]

Your heading answers your own question... "Copying software illegally..."

The answer is black and white. It can be scary to stand-up to your boss, but you can do it. As Ovedya said, you have the right to. Don't compromise your own integrity.

[other one]

carlos, as one person said, updates to most windows programs do not cost anything and the license agreements are an extension of the origional software loaded.

If that software is not legal, then you would be in a position to be concerned, as for the updates they shouldn't be a problem. If the machines have access to the internet you can log onto a microsoft site and check the software for being legal, but be prepaired to seek other imployment if it is not.

I have to load software on all kinds of computers as a Xerox service person, and we never, ever load software that is not legal on anything. When the customers tell me no one will know, I tell them that God knows and I am much more afraid of Him than I am Bill Gates

[Guest shiloh357]

I have to agree with Ovedya and the others. You need to do what would please God.

There is something else I would like to point out. If the software you are talking about is OS software, Microsoft will prosecute. If you try to install registered OS software on another machine, somebody will get a phone call from Mircrosoft espeically if it is XP. You and your boss could be potential defendants in a lawsuit. I would rather have to look for another job than end up in court. It is a very real and viable consequence.

[other one]

I might add that you should find out if the software is legal and inform your boss if it is not and what the penalties are when he gets caught, and sooner or later it will happen.

[carlos123]

Just a few notes on some of the responses I have gotten....

Software licensing is really not a tricky issue, folks just make it that way. 

I disagree with that Ovedya. Have you ever tried to keep tabs on what needs to be taken into account in order to meet the licencing requirements of various software packages in a network environment? Along with keeping track of changes to licencing such that one stays up to date in terms of being legally licenced? It is not as simple as you make it out to be.

Some larger companies, who can afford to dedicate someone to this and who run a realistic risk of getting sued by Microsoft if they do not, have a person or even department dedicated to seeing that they are above board in regard to abiding by all licencing restrictions. Why? Because it is virtually impossible once a network gets big enough to keep track of what people are doing with what unless someone is there dedicated to keeping track of such things for a company.

Even then, there is almost always some licence violation going on somewhere in a larger network. Keeping track of licencing issues, informing users of it, restricting use of software in accordance with all licencing scenarios, and standing up to management when they just want to use the software is NOT an easy thing to keep track of or do Ovedya.

Smaller companies simply don't have the time, money, and inclination to have someone dedicated to keeping track of licensing issues. Their focus is on using the software productively. Not on the possibility that Microsoft might sue them or not.

To make matters worse many computer consulting companies install software in accordance with the wishes of a company and not in accordance with licencing restrictions. Especially if the boss takes responsibility for what ultimately gets installed and how it is used.

Admittedly the complexity of how licencing can be is minimized at my small company by virtue of having only 6 computer total. But it's still not that easy.

Let me give you an example. We have a program that keeps track of our clients contacts. Their name, address, and other such info. I was told on the phone by a rep of the company that it was licenced for 3 workstations (not including the server). Okay....I presented it to my boss and he okayed getting it on that basis. So we have been gearing up to use this software program, right? We went through some hassle to get it and to wait on it's arrival. On installing the program I read through the licence agreement that displays during the installation.and lo and behold it says that the software is licenced to 3 users. Not workstations. In other words 3 people can use it at the same time. Not various individuals (i.e. more than 3) through 3 workstations (or computers). BIG difference.

I agree to the licence and install the software and begin to use it. Preparing to roll out it's use for everyone else in the company.

In casual conversation with my boss he says that we really only need one copy of the software as in we really did not need to get a 3 workstation or 3 user licence for it's use. We could have just copied the one and used it for whatever.

Either way we are not as yet violating either the 3 workstation or 3 user limit on the software but we are headed to doing so once I get the software fully operational such that the rest of the company can use it.

Later, after the installation, I call the company back and talk to them some more about using the software off the server such that any number of users can connect to the software on the server in what is known as a remote connection. Without the software being on any of the computers that actually connect to the server. In other words users see the screen on the server and use the software as if they were sitting at the server while in actual fact sitting in front of their computers at home or wherever.

What does the rep tell me about such use? It's perfectly okay because the software is not installed on the workstations as such.

I call and in speaking to another rep I am led to believe that such use is indeed contrary to what is allowed.

My boss in turn just wants to use the software and his company is cash starved just now so he does not want to pay additional licencing fees.

At no time is there any risk whatsoever that any use of the software contrary to what the wording of the licence allows will be discovered much less done anything about. We are in Canada the software company in question is in the U.S. Given the price of the software it is EXTREMELY unlikely that the software company will pursue any misuse in Canada. It just would not be worth it.

The only one really concerned with this is ME! Not the software company, that will not pursue users in foreign ccountriesand is even confused about what their own licence says and how it might apply to a situation. And certainly not my boss who thinks we should have got a one user licence and just copied it for our internal use.

There is another consideration in all this.....

There may be laws on the books that are indeed on the books with regard to illegally copying and using software but when those laws are not enforced are they laws that Christians should abide by?

If we go by the letter of the law then no Christian should jay walk. No Christian should go one mile over the speed limit. Every Christian should get a permit for doing any little thing in their own house such as hanging a door that according to the city they live in requires a permit. Every Christian who so much as touches a light switch and disconnects it form it's wiring to change it should beforehand set up for an electrical inspector to come into their home and inspect what they are doing such that they can be given city approval for such work (according to the letter of the law EVERY such disconnection of wiring needs to be inspected by a duly authorized inspector).

There are lots of laws that even Christians don't follow.

Many laws simply are not enforced and given that they are man made laws it seems that the Christian needs to take into account not only whether the law is on the books but also whether a law is even enforced. In determining whether to obey a given law.

Again I say it is not that simple Ovedya.

If we all went around sticking to the letter of every law written we would turn into Pharisees who focused so much on the letter of the Law that they lost sight of the weighter things of God's Law. Namely mercy and love. And I seriously doubt that we would be winsome by such an approach to the majority of people around us. Instead we would find ourselves siding with every bureaucracy, every IRS decision, every government policy, every law that while on the books may ignore the needs of people to live in freedom and to not be weighed down by burdensome laws that would lead to intolerable legalism if every single one of us followed everything to the exact letter of the law.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that as Christians that we should not obey governing authorities. Only that there is a balance between obeying the letter of every law on the books and being winsome to those we are trying to win for Christ.

God does not want us to be Pharisees in the workplace. It's not an all out, that's the letter of the Law and that's that, take it or leave it proposition that Christians are to follow I think. At least that is not how I read the Scriptures on all this.

God's Law we are follow period. Man's law we are to also follow having a spirt of submission to secular authorities over us through such obedience but as Christian we are also to have balance realizing that following the exact letter of the law, and literally forcing others around us to either reject us or suffer under onerous legislation, is not always the godly thing to do.

I am trying to find that balance. I am willing to say to my boss that the letter of the law in regard to copying or using software when seen through what a licence allows or not is that, and if he doesn't like it too bad. I am not sure that God would have me do that.

Our society is so corrupt and so lacking in integrity that Christians, and I am talking her about committed Christians, are now unfairly penalized by wanting to abide by written laws that are not even followed or enforced consistently and fairly.

Given that illegal use of software contrary to what is allowed in licencing agreements is so rampant among small businesses and so unenforced are we saying that no committed Christian can now be a computer person in such an environment?

If the law says that it's illegal to have more than one copy without paying for a license, then it's illegal. 

It is not the law that says that Ovedya. It is the licencing agreement from a software company. The law says that such licencing agreements have to be honored but that it's up to the company selling the software to pursue legal remedies if their licence agreements are not kept up. Most don't. Because it isn't worth the legal fees. Especially when it comes to pursuing legal options in other countries where their software may be sold.

In the case of bigger companies like Microsoft they usually don't pursue the little guy either. Why? Because they realize that illegal use of software is rampant and that if they pursued every Dick, Jane, and Harry for such they would end up alienating a lot if not a majority percentage of their customers. Not to mention that it would cost them more to pursue some little guy in terms of legal fees than to just focus on the bigger infringers like large corporations.

In the end as in my case, the only one's really concerned about this enough to do anything about it are the Christians.

Imagine if you will living in Asia somewhere like in China. Where illegal software use is not only rampant but an accepted norm. What then? Am I am to become a defacto Microsoft licencing activist? Forcing every employer that I work for in Asia to either abide by licencing agreements that are not even enforced by Microsoft or loose my services?

There is not middle ground here, as far as I can see.  Just because other people do it, 

or it's a common practice in smaller offices, doesn't mean that it's legal or legally acceptable under certain conditions.

You are right in saying that according to the letter of the law there is no middle ground but may I ask have you ever worked in the kind of environment that I am describing? Where the letter of the law is often not enforced even by those who make up the law or licence agreement?

But as far as I know updates to Windows operating systems do not require the purchase of a new license. 

Generally no but they do require a clicking on an agreement. Often in that agreement there is a clause that says that their software can only be updated and used if it is being done to a legal copy of the original software.

If you do have to buy new licenses for other machines, then you do have the legal and moral obligation to inform your boss so that he can make the appropriate decision.  If he insists that you do something illegal as a normal course of your work, then you should refuse.  And he cannot legally threaten your job for your refusal to do something that is immoral or illegal.

That may be true Ovedya but what he can legally do to me or not is not the issue for me. I would not stay in an environment where I am holding the company back from doing what it is that they could do if I was not present and indeed what everyone around does and gets away with. My boss would be frustrated by me, my fellow employees would be frustrated by me, and everyone would think I was being foolish.

There is a big difference between having people think I am foolish and having people think I am being foolish in my obedience to God. If I do something like that I better be darn sure that any such "foolishness" on my part results from obedience to God and not from some legalistic view of what I should do.

Here is a scenario. I get hired to work at a company. During the interview I do not ask nor does anybody tell me whether the software being used is legally being used or not. I start working with their computer systems. It comes time to update the software. I have come to realize that much of it is not being used legally in line with the licences that come with the software. I come to the Agree button and have read that it cannot be used on illegally copied versions of Microsoft. What do I do at that point? Walk out? Quit? Tell my boss that someone else should click the button such that I can legally if not morally keep using the software, even though it's use is illegal?

I am not sure that there is a clear answer to all this.

I have quit jobs before. One boss wanted me to make illegal copies of Microsoft and put them on custom made computers. I said I could not do that because I would be responsible for such infringement.

I quit another job where the boss wanted me to put used office equipment, that had been rented to customers already, back into their boxes and sell it as new. I could not do that either.

Please don't think that I am not willing to quit if that is what God wants. I think I have proven that already by decisions like the one's I have described. I don't much like my present job in many respects and would find it a relief to quit because they might want to use software in a way contrary to licence agreements. While I like the job itself the work environment is not that great and downright stressful.

But at the same time I don't want to quit from some mistaken altruism that says Christians should obey the letter of every law, all the time, and without question.

I am frankly not sure what God wants me to do yet but I am still all ears to discuss this more in the hopes that input from this forum might give me more insight.

Please excuse my long response but I wanted to make sure things were as clear as possible.

I am especially interested in hearing from System Administrators or Computer persons working in a small business environment in countries outside the U.S. who are also committed Christians and have a love for the Lord. If any of you are in that position I would love to hear how you have handled these types of situations in which you have undoubtedly found yourselves. Have you had to change careers?

Carlos

Edited January 10, 2005 by carlos123

[Budman]

I disagree with that bud

software is NOT an easy thing to keep track of or do bud

Again I say it is not that simple bud

etc., etc.

Um, I didn't make the post you are answering to, Carlos.

warm regards

-bud