irishcowboy Posted January 13, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2005 The Catholic Church does not allow divorce. However, they do allow for annulment. The theology is that an annulment means that the marriage did not exist. If there was no marriage, then there is no need for divorce. According to the Church teaching, a marriage only exist when a man and woman, are united to each other, freely and in full knowledge and consent. The annulment process looks at whether these two conditions were in place at the time the marriage took place. Was the marriage the result of a unwanted pregnancy? If so, then perhaps the two did not marry freely. Did one of the people have a secret that was unknown to the person, say for instance, the person was gay, or the person knowingly, was unable to have children, but never revealed that information. This would've prevented the other person from having full knowledge and of the commitment that he/she was going into. Also, alcoholism and drug addiction can be a factor, where a person was not able to make a commitment with full knowledge and consent. According to a deacon that I'm a good friend with, the theology on annulment has changed a little. Before, where an annulment said that the marriage never existed, today it say's that although it may have marriage existed in the beginning, for some reason, it has ceased to exist. I'm not sure if this new theology is nothing more than a watering down of the original, by liberal Bishop's or not? From what I've read lately, Rome still holds that an annulment means that the marriage never existed and has been critical of US and Canada Bishop's, allowing annulments very loosely. As a result, the preparation for marriage in the Catholic Church is more intense than ever before. My son is getting married next October. He and his fiance, must go through a discernment process which includes a week-end for engaged couples. This week-end get's the couple to ask questions of each other that they probably never ask, and to learn exactly what they are committing themselves to. It takes about a year, before you can get married in the Catholic church these days. I think it's the right step. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> wow, whether you call it a divorce or an annullment, what is the difference. And just because one got married because of a pregancy is not really grounds for a divorce or anullment......... Don't really care so much what the "church" teaches....what does the word say...... Can a man hold coals of fire to his chest without burning his clothes....... Sin is sin, whether it is divorce, which many times, but not always is sin. Having sex out of wedlock is also sin. I think the point we miss is this. God knows that sin damages us. And when a couple seperate, it does damage. It takes an act of God to fix that damage and we need to be honest with ourselves to recieve this healing........ Like I said, I have been divorced and remarried. I say, very humbly, in most cases, and because of what the word says maybe all, divorced people are not to be in position of leadership. Sorry if this offends people, but the truth is still the truth no matter how you or me feel about it. God is not mocked <{POST_SNAPBACK}> how many children can be had before an annulment turns into a divorce? how many marrriages can a person have before that happens also???? i know of one that had 4 children by one woman ( after they were married, none were prior to marriage and none were "illigit" ) then divorces, and then remarries and has another child ( no telling how many were had out of wedlock ) and then divorces her, and then remarries, then petitions the court for annulments on the first two..... wow, saying the marriages never happened just made several kids ba******...... the annulment thing is garbage...... a divorce is a divorce....... a sin is a sin is a sin.... some one might even say a person that was a murderer can repent, so why can't one that is divorced? a murderer can take an unsaved soul, and send it to hell, with out giving that person a chance to choose, another person can lay so much guilt on another person that is divorced that the divorcee feels like there is no way out and feels like they are going to hell cause of the divorce..... the murderer can be a pastor, but the divorcee can not...... lets just keep pounding the divorcee's into the ground, dont let them get back up, kick thm while they are down, dont help them back to their feet, keep them so piled up with guilt and fault, that they can not breath.... that is the way to do it, then, after a while we should be able to chase them all out of the church body so that we have a divorce free church then all those divorced will be total outcast and then they will stop worshipping the Lord cause they are nothing but trash anyways.... so we will send lots of souls to hell....... which is worse now? the Christian, sending thousands of divorced people to hell? or the murderer sending one soul to hell? or a person being divorced and trying to make a new life, i am sure no one( or at least very few) picks divorce lightley, there is alot of pain in a persons life even before the thought of divorce comes to mind, it is not done lightly..... but then again, why not send them all to hell, just like one church i seen, they believe that unless you live by their rules you will go to hell... they are even after the kids to turn against their folks andteaches them to steel cheat and lie to their parents..... wow, what wonderful chirstians these are...... well, i guess i need to get my bags packed for this exodous of the church..... dont wont to soil your threashhold..... mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR-OCDS Posted January 13, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 429 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/02/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2005 (edited) the annulment thing is garbage...... a divorce is a divorce....... Maybe it's that you don't understand the meaning between annulment and divorce. Do you understand the difference between a sacramental marriage and a civil marriage? Edited January 13, 2005 by JimR-OCDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahsway Posted January 13, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 657 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/20/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/15/1959 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Oh Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezz, If its consumated then its got to be a marriage. Right? And if its consumated than there is no difference between annulement and divorce. Not in Gods eyes I bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR-OCDS Posted January 13, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 429 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/02/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2005 Oh Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezz, If its consumated then its got to be a marriage. Right? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, but you answered my original question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Chief Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Matrimony: The sacrament of marriage is a sign of the union between Christ and the (notice it doesn't say "His") church. The Council of Florence declared in 1439: "A triple good attaches to matrimony. The first is begetting of children and their education to the worship of God. The second is the faithfulness which each spouse owes the other. The third is the indissolubility of marriage because it represents the indissoluble union of Christ and the Church. The Roman Catholic Church emphasizes the permanence of marriage; divorce is forbidden...Abbott, ed,. Documents of Vatican II, pp 252-55 Marriage: The traditional Catholic view of marriage was that it's primary reasons are the procreation and the education of children; the expression of love was only a secondary reason. Vatican II erased these distinctions, placing greater importance on love in marriage. Vatican II also permitted Mass to be said in the ceremony when a Catholic marries a baptized non-Catholic. Divorce continues to be forbidden. (Quoted in Bokenkotter, Essential Catholicism, p. 250 Seems to me that "annulment" is a word game, wherein "if we pretend it never happened, or ignore it, it will go away." Not how God operates, is it? I feel sure He won't forget... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted January 13, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2005 (edited) I think the whole point being overlooked here about divorce, and WHY God hates it, is because it breaks a covenant agreement.......this is very serious, on either part. It also is very symbolic of the first love we are supposed to have in Christ Jesus when we first heard and received Him as our Lord and Savior......if we are willing to break covenants with our first loves in any form that is a serious issue. If we do not understand the symbolism of marriage whether a good one or a bad one, we do not need to be in leadership authority within church. Now, having said that, I am divorced.......my husband is not however committing adultery due to the fact that my first husband is deceased, therefore I am set free from the first covenant of marriage. If he were not though, I'm afraid that things would be significantly different for us both in ministry. Read Malachi 2:13-16 13 And this is the second thing you do: You cover the altar of the Lord with tears, With weeping and crying; So He does not regard the offering anymore, Nor receive it with goodwill from your hands. 14 Yet you say, "For what reason?" Because the Lord has been witness Between you and the wife of your youth, With whom you have dealt treacherously; Yet she is your companion And your wife by covenant. 15 But did He not make them one, Having a remnant of the Spirit? And why one? He seeks godly offspring. Therefore take heed to your spirit, And let none deal treacherously with the wife of his youth. 16 "For the Lord God of Israel says That He hates divorce, For it covers one's garment with violence," Says the Lord of hosts. "Therefore take heed to your spirit, That you do not deal treacherously." There are many occasions where this happens, and we are called to "return" to our first love, in Scriptures. This is a vital command, even symbolically in terms of the marriage covenant. Do a search on the words......"your first love" (Rev. 2:4) In His Love, Suzanne Edited January 13, 2005 by tsth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OneWhoIsSeeking Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Do you think it matters if our teachers, preachers are divorced and some of them more then once.???? Alot of preachers and teachers are now divorced and remarried do you think it matters one way or the other??? In Christ IreneM <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Blessing IreneM, [i Believe] If anyone preacher or teacher has truly accepted Christ he must be obedient to the doctrine of Christ which states the following: [Matthew 5:32] But I say unto you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. [Roman 7:2-4] 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. 4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. Thank God for Grace and Mercy, Onewhoisseeking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted January 14, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 14, 2005 the annulment thing is garbage...... a divorce is a divorce....... Maybe it's that you don't understand the meaning between annulment and divorce. Do you understand the difference between a sacramental marriage and a civil marriage? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> excuse me????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am one that would love to have had a relationship with my biological father, that ( according to the catholic church ) seems like i never had a father, cause of a stipulation that is called an annulment, that left me, my younger two brothers and my younger sister with out a father, evidently, they saw fit to kick mom out of the church cause she was divorced, but my "father" ( not daddy ) was allowed to stay, even thou he was the one committing adultry from every angle imaginable... then when he remarried he done it again...... only this time not only with women, but with men.... now.... he stayed in good standing with the Catholic church.... but seems they didnt care about the children.... who does not understand the pain??? the main reason i would say that divorce is not good is for the pain of the rest of the family involved..... mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailjb7 Posted March 22, 2005 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 29 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/22/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2005 How can a divorced preacher teach biblical principles re holy matrimony as in Matthew 19 and personally set a Godly example for others? Wouldn't he, by his round-robin marital history, have to omit Jesus Christ on lifetime marriage? http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Really depends on the circumstances it he was the one who left her and then divorced her I would say no. But if he remained faithful, did everything in his power to reconcile but she left and divorced him (secular divorce) then I see not reason why he should not be able to teach as he remained faithful. Even if he has married subsequent to that. Mikhail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted March 22, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2005 Do you think it matters if our teachers, preachers are divorced and some of them more then once.???? Alot of preachers and teachers are now divorced and remarried do you think it matters one way or the other??? In Christ IreneM <{POST_SNAPBACK}> personally, I think man puts too much on one peticular type of sin.... what about those that have murdered? what about those that have burglered? what about those that committ adultry ( with out divorce and remarry )? what places one sin above another? it is said that a murderer can repent, or a thief, or a liar, but what about one that covets? yep, as long as he dont divorce and remarry..... why do we treat people that have a certain back ground one way, and others another way..... isnt this like taking a sword when a brother falls and running him thru with the sword? why not take their hand instead, and lift them back up to their feet. I know what the Bible says, i am not disagreeing with that one little bit. but why stomp a brother into the ground when they stumble? that is what we do.... too many fellowships ( what most call church ) are nothing more then an exclusive country club..... we want to find reasons to exclude others....... if we are to exclude people that are divorced from teaching, then the blended families have no one in them to teach anymore.....hmmmm thats right, we teach at home too, but if we are not to teach, then who is going to teach the kids in blended families at their house? who is going to spread the word????? one woman, divorce 5 times, and living with a man, brought an entire village.... a woman at that...... and divorced 5 times....... and living with a man..... wow..... she brought an entire village to Jesus ........ do what you must. but dont try to justify your actions by trying to bend the laws.... should we be really looking at other people and what they did wrong? or should we be looking at others and how we can assist them while they are doing the Lords work? if we are unwilling, then why should we be placing dampers on others that are willing..... that leads to envy, to jealousy....... mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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