Unforgivable Sins??

[yomotalking]

Budman,

Are we going to remain unanswered?

yomo

[Guest paw]

Agree with you yomo,

The simple answer to "what is the blasphamy of the Holy Spirit" is rejecting the drawing of the Spirit to repent and receive Christ as Lord and Savior. All other sin was dealt with on the cross. The only unpardonable sin is rejecting Christ.

[Budman]

Why do you believe there is no unpardonable sin today, when the Bible, seems to make it clear that people can commit this sin.

When I was younger and far more stupid than I am today, I turned my back on God and got into satanism. I worshiped the devil, I prayed to the devil. I craved what other dumb kids like me did, power and respect. I thought Satan could give me both.

While I was living in Las Vegas, I worked at a K-mart. A fellow who was a Christian was one of my co-workers. He spent a great deal of time trying to win me back to the Lord.

To make a long story short, I asked him what was the worst thing a person could do to anger God. He told me about the "unpardonable sin."

One day in my apartment, right in front of him, I blasphemed the Holy Spirit, I said some of the most vile and pornographic things a person could ever say about God the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost. I even willingly opened myself up for possession.

Shoot ahead about a year from that moment. I went through an exorcism. I repented in tears and agony over the things I had said and done, and I returned to the Lord.

But, you're telling me that that was all for nothing. I am lost. That my efforts to live the Christian life, and to help lead others to Christ is just a big waste of time, because I have a home waiting for me in the lake of fire. No matter what.

You're saying that no matter how broken I was, no matter how much begging I can do now, God has turned His back on me forever?

You're saying that God is so petty that He will not reach down and lift up one of His children who went astray, who came crawling back to Him weeping and crying out in anguish for forgiveness?

Is that the God you worship?

That's not my God, friend.

warm regards

-bud

[Guest tanner]

Why do you believe there is no unpardonable sin today, when the Bible, seems to make it clear that people can commit this sin.

When I was younger and far more stupid than I am today, I turned my back on God and got into satanism. I worshiped the devil, I prayed to the devil. I craved what other dumb kids like me did, power and respect. I thought Satan could give me both.

While I was living in Las Vegas, I worked at a K-mart. A fellow who was a Christian was one of my co-workers. He spent a great deal of time trying to win me back to the Lord.

To make a long story short, I asked him what was the worst thing a person could do to anger God. He told me about the "unpardonable sin."

One day in my apartment, right in front of him, I blasphemed the Holy Spirit, I said some of the most vile and pornographic things a person could ever say about God the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost. I even willingly opened myself up for possession.

Shoot ahead about a year from that moment. I went through an exorcism. I repented in tears and agony over the things I had said and done, and I returned to the Lord.

But, you're telling me that that was all for nothing. I am lost. That my efforts to live the Christian life, and to help lead others to Christ is just a big waste of time, because I have a home waiting for me in the lake of fire. No matter what.

You're saying that no matter how broken I was, no matter how much begging I can do now, God has turned His back on me forever?

You're saying that God is so petty that He will not reach down and lift up one of His children who went astray, who came crawling back to Him weeping and crying out in anguish for forgiveness?

Is that the God you worship?

That's not my God, friend.

warm regards

-bud

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Budman.... When someone truly blasphemes against the Holy Ghost they cannot accoding to word be drawn back to repentance..... For the Spirit draws us unto Christ. We cannot be drawn back in this situation because the Spirit will no longer draw you back to God, so if you seek repentance then you are not someone that has blasphemed the Holy Ghost.. Therefore, in sincere respect of your situation and you I say the following. The word of God is not wrong ....... There is something really simple here......you must have been completely born again as Jesus said. Not only recieved the truth ,recieved baptism in water, but also recieved the Holy Ghost as evidenced with speaking in tongues.

You see I did the same thing as you when I was about around 20. I didnt get into devil worshipping, but I mine as well had and I blasphemed against the Holy Ghost. At the time I was a Baptist, which is the way I was raised. Now, however, having recieved a more perfect way, I am a Pentecostal and have been for about 14 years. As a matter of fact, It was the fact that I got all caught up in evil spirits and the like and the horrible things I saw that led me to search out the word of God and to come into the fullness of the truth.

As I said, I am telling you this in humility to the testimony of the power of God, not to tear down your experience. For I would never want anyone to make fun of my experience with God. As I said, I only say this to expound the word more perfectly..... In Christian Love, Tanner

Edited January 19, 2005 by tanner

[Budman]

Tanner,

Mark 3:28-30, "Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit."

This last verse makes plain what Jesus calls blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. In verse 22, we read that the scribes were trying to convince the people "by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils." Attributing the power of the Holy Spirit and the miracles Jesus performed to the devil.

This is what I did! That is what I said!

So tell me, going by Gods Word, did I or didn't I commit the unpardonable sin?

warm regards

-bud

[Budman]

Tanner,

I wanted to add:

Consider that no man living today has seen the miracles performed by Jesus or his apostles afterward to have the opportunity to both reject them and attribute their power to Satan. The Jews in the first century committed a terrible sin in both seeing these miracles and then crediting them to the devil, and Jesus says the one who does this "hath never forgiveness." Wuest's Word Studies in the New Testament comments on Mark 3:

The religious leaders of Israel were trying to break the force of the attesting power of our Lord's miracles done in the energy of the Holy Spirit, by saying that he performed them in dependence upon Satan, thus disproving his claims to Messiahship, and linking him with the devil. This is the so-called unpardonable sin. It cannot be committed today since the conditions are not here which made it possible in the first century. (Wuest. Vol. I, p. 76)

However, we can arrive at a state in which we WILL NOT be forgiven if we refuse to repent, and we reject the Word of God. This is not the exact same sin as "blaspheming the Holy Ghost" committed in the first century. That was a malicious, willful denial of the power of God in the presence of a miracle. But in a similar vein, we can "Grieve the Holy spirit" (Ephesians 4:30) by rejecting the Word the Holy Spirit has given us. Today we can deny the Spirit by refusing to obey the Gospel and repent. Those who do so can even reach a "point of no return" by continually rejecting the calls of the Holy Spirit until they have become so calloused in heart that it is "impossible to renew them again unto repentance" (Hebrews 6:6). Such sin will not be forgiven, but the fault is not with God. It is one's inability to repent that makes him/her lost.

There is no one time act of sin that can be committed today that will cause one to lose his candidacy for salvation, i.e., the unpardonable sin. As long as the sinner possesses a willingness to repent and wants to obey God, any and all sins can be washed away. It is only after a person keeps rejecting salvation, and fallen so far that they willingly, continually and habitually live a lifestyle of sin that "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin" (Hebrews 10:26). This is described as sinning "wilfully" and will not be forgiven. The conscience has been "seared with a hot iron" (1 Timothy 4:2), and will no longer be affected by the Gospel.

With reference to "speaking against" the Son being forgivable, Jesus is not saying that the Spirit was superior to him but that after his testimony is given there will be one more testimony -- that of the Holy Spirit -- the Word of God. This is the last effort of God to save sinful men; there will be no others! Consider the words of the Hebrews writer in Chapter 1:1-2: "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son..." Early in man's history God spoke to us through prophets, then Jesus came and declared the Father to us, and still speaks to us today through the written Word, the "Sword of the Spirit" (Ephesians 6:17). Men could reject the prophets, and even reject the teaching of the Lord, but the final testimony of the Spirit, God's Word, is the last chance.

The conclusion then is that one cannot commit the exact same sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit today after the manner of the Jews in the first century, for no one living today has seen with his own eyes the miracles performed by Jesus and his apostles. However, one can sin similarly by rejecting the Word spoken through the Holy Spirit to a point that he will no longer be moved by the Gospel message and thereby be lost in eternity.

warm regards

-bud

[Guest tanner]

Tanner,

I wanted to add:

Consider that no man living today has seen the miracles performed by Jesus or his apostles afterward to have the opportunity to both reject them and attribute their power to Satan. The Jews in the first century committed a terrible sin in both seeing these miracles and then crediting them to the devil, and Jesus says the one who does this "hath never forgiveness." Wuest's Word Studies in the New Testament comments on Mark 3:

The religious leaders of Israel were trying to break the force of the attesting power of our Lord's miracles done in the energy of the Holy Spirit, by saying that he performed them in dependence upon Satan, thus disproving his claims to Messiahship, and linking him with the devil. This is the so-called unpardonable sin. It cannot be committed today since the conditions are not here which made it possible in the first century. (Wuest. Vol. I, p. 76)

However, we can arrive at a state in which we WILL NOT be forgiven if we refuse to repent, and we reject the Word of God. This is not the exact same sin as "blaspheming the Holy Ghost" committed in the first century. That was a malicious, willful denial of the power of God in the presence of a miracle. But in a similar vein, we can "Grieve the Holy spirit" (Ephesians 4:30) by rejecting the Word the Holy Spirit has given us. Today we can deny the Spirit by refusing to obey the Gospel and repent. Those who do so can even reach a "point of no return" by continually rejecting the calls of the Holy Spirit until they have become so calloused in heart that it is "impossible to renew them again unto repentance" (Hebrews 6:6). Such sin will not be forgiven, but the fault is not with God. It is one's inability to repent that makes him/her lost.

There is no one time act of sin that can be committed today that will cause one to lose his candidacy for salvation, i.e., the unpardonable sin. As long as the sinner possesses a willingness to repent and wants to obey God, any and all sins can be washed away. It is only after a person keeps rejecting salvation, and fallen so far that they willingly, continually and habitually live a lifestyle of sin that "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin" (Hebrews 10:26). This is described as sinning "wilfully" and will not be forgiven. The conscience has been "seared with a hot iron" (1 Timothy 4:2), and will no longer be affected by the Gospel.

With reference to "speaking against" the Son being forgivable, Jesus is not saying that the Spirit was superior to him but that after his testimony is given there will be one more testimony -- that of the Holy Spirit -- the Word of God. This is the last effort of God to save sinful men; there will be no others! Consider the words of the Hebrews writer in Chapter 1:1-2: "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son..." Early in man's history God spoke to us through prophets, then Jesus came and declared the Father to us, and still speaks to us today through the written Word, the "Sword of the Spirit" (Ephesians 6:17). Men could reject the prophets, and even reject the teaching of the Lord, but the final testimony of the Spirit, God's Word, is the last chance.

The conclusion then is that one cannot commit the exact same sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit today after the manner of the Jews in the first century, for no one living today has seen with his own eyes the miracles performed by Jesus and his apostles. However, one can sin similarly by rejecting the Word spoken through the Holy Spirit to a point that he will no longer be moved by the Gospel message and thereby be lost in eternity.

warm regards

-bud

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Budman... i am not going to go over and over the same scriptures which I have repeatedly posted in this and the other thread reguarding this... Of which I posted numerous upon numerous scriptures.... second there are still miracle and God's power is still true.. I am sorry if the Spiritual gifts of the church are not in full operation in your church.............

The wind still blows and the power still falls..............

May God bless you!!!!!!!!! Tanner

[Guest tanner]

By the way I know exactly who Jesus is, in reguardes to your statement about Christ putting the Spirit above him... Since the word says he is that Spirit and if we have not the Spirit of Christ the bible says we are none of his.... Jesus Christ was the almighty God in the flesh.................

2 Corinthians 5:19 - To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Who was in the flesh the Spirit!

Who is the Spirit? God......... For God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and truth

You can say what you want and you can take a piece of the truth

But the whole truth is what will save us all!

tanner

Edited January 20, 2005 by tanner

[Repent1]

Greetings fellow sojourners,

God

[yomotalking]

But, you're telling me that that was all for nothing. I am lost. That my efforts to live the Christian life, and to help lead others to Christ is just a big waste of time, because I have a home waiting for me in the lake of fire. No matter what.

You're saying that no matter how broken I was, no matter how much begging I can do now, God has turned His back on me forever?

You're saying that God is so petty that He will not reach down and lift up one of His children who went astray, who came crawling back to Him weeping and crying out in anguish for forgiveness?

Budman,

I did not actually say any of the above things to you. You have put words into my mouth on this subject.

I was not accusing you. I was just simply asking you a question to which I wanted the answer, and wanted to know what you thought.

Your experience is between you and the Lord, not for me to answer.

Sorry if I offended you.

yomo