The Rapture

[Trinity]

The rapture is a resurrection of those "in Christ"

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words.

Isn't it a little bit odd that Rev. 19:11-21

I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations.

[Dad Ernie]

I have a really bad feeling about this thread...

I thought it was going well, until you decided to add your 2c.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Trinity]

LOL so i should just be quiet?

[Trinity]

I am a vary Opinionated person. I tell people what is on my mind, was it going ok till i posted my post or when i said "I have a bad feeling about this"???

[Dad Ernie]

I am a vary Opinionated person. I tell people what is on my mind, was it going ok till i posted my post or when i said "I have a bad feeling about this"???

Greetings Trinity,

I know you are opinionated, even as I, but encouraging a newbe to uncover the truth for him/herself I think is the best way to go. I could have shredded your post, but it would have gotten off subject and we have already hashed these things out between us and are located in other topics in this forum.

I am trying to abide by: "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. TEACH a man to fish, and he will dine for a lifetime."

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Budman]

Dear uvn477,

Here is a site that may answer all of your questions:

RaptureReady

warm regards

-bud

[Dad Ernie]

Here is a site that may answer all of your questions:

Greetings uvn477,

That site is a pre-trib site, very bias and goes right along with the Left Behind series. How sad.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[refugepsa91]

I think it was other one who said to read through some of the pinned threads here about rapture. Thats a good idea. Then as Dad Ernie said read the scripture yourself....at home, just you and your bible. Thats what I did. I believed the pre-trib rapture myself....then I decided to think for myself..(so to speak, no disrespect meant) now I think pre-wrath makes more sense. But I have no problem being wrong If Jesus wants to take us all sooner thats fine with me I won't complain a bit or be upset cuz I was wrong

P.S. isn't pre-wrath and post-trib the same thing?

Love and Blessings,

Angel

[Dad Ernie]

P.S.  isn't pre-wrath and post-trib the same thing?

Greetings refugepsa91,

In certain circles, there are some who believe there IS a difference, but as with everything else, there are so many disparities, I gave up listening to man. I see the resurrection/rapture occuring after the tribulation and before the destruction of Babylon by God's wrath. So if that isn't the same thing to me, I just shrug my shoulders.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest hubertdorm]

Isn't it a little bit odd that Rev. 19:11-21... which is the clearest picture of the second coming of Christ, there is no mention of a resurrection? The rapture will be the biggest event since the resurrection of Jesus where hundreds of millions of Christians will be resurrected and translated, yet there isn't any mention here. Don't you think it deserves at least one verse? The rapture isn't mentioned because it doesn't happen at the second coming.

This is a good observation Trinity. There is no mention of a resurrection in this passage. However, there is a resurrection none-the-less.

Revelation 20 And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

John did write about a resurrection of believers after the tribulation. In fact, it is the first resurrection. How can it be the first if another one took place 7+ years prior? He also described it in past tense, meaning it had taken place prior to when he described it, yet the details show that it cannot have taken place anytime previous to the second coming of Jesus Christ.

The armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, follow Jesus out of heaven at His second coming (Rev. 19:14, Zech. 14:5, Col. 3:4). These are not angels because Rev. 19:8 tells us the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. In order to come out of heaven we first have to go in, indicating a previous rapture.

I agree these aren't angels, though I do believe angels will be with Jesus when he returns (Matt 24:31; 1 Thess 4:16). It is important to notice that the term "saints" is identified with the Church in this passage. Why? Because one point of pre-tribulational belief is that the Church isn't mentioned at all from the beginning of Chapter 4 until now. Unfortunately, the "saints" are mentioned during this middle section (Rev 13:7, 10; Rev 14:12). I think we need to be more consistent interpreting this, not base it upon our doctrine.

Just two other quick points:

1) The saints who return with Jesus possibly are those who have proceeded us in death (1 Thess 4:14).

2) The passage does not state that the saints leave heaven and come to earth, only that they are standing at the doorway to heaven. At the second coming of Christ, the sky is receded like a scroll (Rev 6:14) and the temple in heaven is opened (Rev 11:19). Because of this, the believers who have been gathered to Christ in the sky prior to his "touchdown" will be standing at the entrance to heaven.

[Revelation 3:10] says we will be kept out of the hour of testing which will come upon the whole earth (the Tribulation). It means you are forbidden from entering the area. But this verse also says He will keep us from the hour of testing. It is not just the testing, but the time period. If a student is excused from a test, he still may have to sit in the class while others take the test. But if he is excused from the hour of testing, he can go home. The Church will be called home before the hour of testing

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If we use literal interpretation, there is no possible way we can draw that conclusion. This promise was given to one congregation out of seven, not the entire church body, so we cannot apply it to every believer. The church of Philadelphia was an actual church in Asia Minor. John became the overseer of this (and the other six) after he escaped exile on Patmos. So, while we can apply these church types to individual Christians as well as entire congregations, literally, we cannot use this passage as a promise for the entire church.

Also, grammatically, "keep out of the hour," does not forbid from entering, but is a promise to remove from. The English get's a little foggy, I know, and is subject to many translations. But the motion of movement in this phrase is not to prevent from entering, but to take from the proximity of the object (the hour of trial).

When we think Biblically, we know that it is the most faithful of Christians who are promised the worst of persecution.