Guest shiloh357 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 It seems to me that "God" is simply used as an explanation for that which we can't grasp. Not so. God is the explanation that science can't reach. Science can only detect what is in the natural world. That doesn't mean that this natural world is all that there is. Science cannot rule God out as the uncaused cause for everything that has come into existence in the natural world. What I'm hearing is that conveniently those things that are beyond of our microscopes and our telescopes etc are easily explained by an all powerful/all knowing creator. All the while supposedly this approach is labeled as "more adequate" than the "we don't know" approach. It's not the case that we don't know. It's the case that you simply don't want to believe beyond what science can detect. An all-knowing, all-powerful God is simply the best and most rational answer for the existence of the material world. I mean I get it, it's an attractive method to explain things, but I don't know that it really answers much. The truth is that it explains perfectly what science can't explain. And it is an explanation that agrees with the human experience. Nothing we use ever comes into existence on its own. Everything is created. We know that. I don't have to meet the author of book to know that a book must have an author. No one saw Stonehenge being made but our experience tells us, just by looking at Stonehenge that human beings built it. It has every earmark of design and even if I never saw it being made, never saw any evidence for the existence of the ones who made it, I would not be convinced by any one that Stonehenge is a randomly occurring rock formation that just appeared that way. I know it was made by someone even if I can't tell you who made it and cannot provide on shred of evidence outside of Stonehenge for the existence of its makers/designers. No scholar would ever stake their reputation on a theory of Stonehenge that included the idea that those rocks of uniform shape and size just fell into place without the aid of an intelligent causality. Yet that is the very form of intellectual suicide that we are expected to commit when it comes to the existence of our universe, which is far more complex than Stonehenge, that we should look at the obvious earmarks of wisdom and design and just pretend that everything just popped into existence for no good reason and by no intelligent cause. That doesn't square with our experience and frankly isn't intellectually satisfying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ehud Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) What I'm hearing is that conveniently those things that are beyond of our microscopes and our telescopes etc are easily explained by an all powerful/all knowing creator. I'm not sure this is the point at all. It's the things things that are within (not beyond) the microscopes and telescopes that are easily explained by an all powerful/all knowing creator. It wasn't that long ago that folks thought a cell was a blob of protoplasm, which quite frankly it wouldn't have taken much intelligence to make. Now as we learn about the complexity of the cell in only argues more for an intelligent mastermind behind it all. One of my favorite examples is that of the ribosome, the cell's protein making factories. Proteins are an integral part of these protein making factories, so one would have to ask, which came first the protein to make the ribosome, or the ribosome to make the protein? Scientists offer some far-fetched, untestable speculations to try explain this quandry all the while overlooking the more reasonable possibility that the ribosomes were created by an intelligent designer. The things within the microscope and telescope only raise more questions than they answer from a purely secular worldview. This "God of the Gaps" accusation is often leveled against Christian's for an understandable reason. For instance, I'm as dumb as dirt when it comes to math, but suppose somebody wrote a higher order partial derivatives calculus problem and gave it to me and a competent mathmetician. Furthermore, suppose the creator of the math problem gave me the answer (well not just me, but to anyone who would believe him). I could confidently claim I knew what the answer was even though I don't know a lick about the math, and the mathmetician would rightfully accuse me of defaulting to the God of the Gaps. But this doesn't have any bearing on the validity of my answer. Assuming 1) the mathmatician was able to objectively solve the problem and 2) the creator was trustworthy, we should both arrive at the same answer. If the Bible is correct, then this is indeed the situation we find ourselves in with the issue of origins. Some Christians are interested in learning the "math" that get's them to the answer, while some Christians find that their time is better served elsewhere since they already have the answer. At first glance, this latter approach (which is probably the more common of the two) looks like a cop-out, but it may actually be the wiser of the two options simply because we only have one life to live and time is fleeting. Hold the Fort, Ehud Edited December 31, 2014 by Ehud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KPaulG Posted December 31, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 70 Topic Count: 340 Topics Per Day: 0.09 Content Count: 16,834 Content Per Day: 4.70 Reputation: 13,549 Days Won: 81 Joined: 07/24/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/02/2000 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Hey, Bonky, welcome back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkins Posted December 31, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 289 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted December 31, 2014 It seems to me that "God" is simply used as an explanation for that which we can't grasp. What I'm hearing is that conveniently those things that are beyond of our microscopes and our telescopes etc are easily explained by an all powerful/all knowing creator. All the while supposedly this approach is labeled as "more adequate" than the "we don't know" approach. I mean I get it, it's an attractive method to explain things, but I don't know that it really answers much. This is normal and part of human nature. However it has nothing to do with the truth of Christianity. What is worthy of more attention is that conveniently those things that are beyond of our microscopes and our telescopes etc are easily explained by the "all powerful/all knowing science". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 It seems to me that "God" is simply used as an explanation for that which we can't grasp. ~ Say For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23 It Ain't For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23 So For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 Beloved And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonky Posted January 2, 2015 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 6 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 738 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 346 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) It seems to me that "God" is simply used as an explanation for that which we can't grasp. What I'm hearing is that conveniently those things that are beyond of our microscopes and our telescopes etc are easily explained by an all powerful/all knowing creator. All the while supposedly this approach is labeled as "more adequate" than the "we don't know" approach. I mean I get it, it's an attractive method to explain things, but I don't know that it really answers much. This is normal and part of human nature. However it has nothing to do with the truth of Christianity. What is worthy of more attention is that conveniently those things that are beyond of our microscopes and our telescopes etc are easily explained by the "all powerful/all knowing science". Who is claiming that scientists [or the scientific community] have all the answers?? When I hear cosmologists talk about the Universe, I hear of multiple models that they discuss because there are a lot of things we don't understand. Edited January 2, 2015 by Bonky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonky Posted January 2, 2015 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 6 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 738 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 346 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2015 Hey, Bonky, welcome back. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted January 2, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,390 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,563 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted January 2, 2015 The more we discover the more questions become -it is pride that prevents the educated from relinquishing the glory due to God for the creation He has made... 1 Cor 8:1-3 8 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. 2 And if any man think that he knoweth anything, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him. KJV Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Teditis Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 It seems to me that "God" is simply used as an explanation for that which we can't grasp. What I'm hearing is that conveniently those things that are beyond of our microscopes and our telescopes etc are easily explained by an all powerful/all knowing creator. All the while supposedly this approach is labeled as "more adequate" than the "we don't know" approach. I mean I get it, it's an attractive method to explain things, but I don't know that it really answers much. This is normal and part of human nature. However it has nothing to do with the truth of Christianity. What is worthy of more attention is that conveniently those things that are beyond of our microscopes and our telescopes etc are easily explained by the "all powerful/all knowing science". Who is claiming that scientists [or the scientific community] have all the answers?? When I hear cosmologists talk about the Universe, I hear of multiple models that they discuss because there are a lot of things we don't understand. Well, in general it's the scientific community that claims that they have the answers. When I hear them talk about cosmology/origins, they claim, more often than not, that whatever they are proposing "proves" that God is not relevant to the "beginning"... that their model demonstrates that everything has a scientifically explainable genesis. Ergo, they have all the answers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KPaulG Posted January 2, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 70 Topic Count: 340 Topics Per Day: 0.09 Content Count: 16,834 Content Per Day: 4.70 Reputation: 13,549 Days Won: 81 Joined: 07/24/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/02/2000 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Hey, Bonky, welcome back. Thanks. You are welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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