Guest Bethany Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 So, just laying around thinking about omnipresence and I had a few questions. 1) If God is omnipresent, then why does the Bible say that hell is a place where God is not present. Here are the verses I"m looking at: Matt 25:41, 2 Thes 1:7-9, Rev 14:10. I'm not arguing against the omnipresence of God...but seeking some clarification. 2) Omnipresent is something only God in his divine nature possesses.....so why do we say that "Satan is causing us to stumble" or similar statements? ...He certainly can't be messing with me if he's messing with Gertrude in Timbuktu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted December 21, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2014 So, just laying around thinking about omnipresence and I had a few questions. 1) If God is omnipresent, then why does the Bible say that hell is a place where God is not present. Here are the verses I"m looking at: Matt 25:41, 2 Thes 1:7-9, Rev 14:10. I'm not arguing against the omnipresence of God...but seeking some clarification. Though God is omnipresent, that does not mean He has chosen to be everywhere in Spirit. God can see all and knows all.Your reference to Matthew 25:31-46 describes the judgment of nations, where those who rejected His leading is cast away into the lake of fire, a final destination, which is not Hell. Hell itself will be cast into the same lake of fire. Both 2 Thessalonians 1 and Revelation 14 speak of the same judgment. We can read many places in scripture that give different descriptions of what it will be like for those who reject God, from outer darkness to the worm never dying. All in all, it is the choice of the person that has defined where they will end up for eternity. IF one fully rejects God, why would God be where He is not welcomed?2) Omnipresent is something only God in his divine nature possesses.....so why do we say that "Satan is causing us to stumble" or similar statements? ...He certainly can't be messing with me if he's messing with Gertrude in Timbuktu. Satan had many followers. We are not told a solid number, only that 1/3 of the heavenly host fell with him. Satan cannot be anywhere, but he can send his followers to do his bidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted December 21, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,247 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 16,658 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 21, 2014 We are told in James 1:13 that each one is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Satan tempted Eve in the garden and Jesus in the wilderness. Otherwise I don't remember anyone else that he tempted. We are told that satan entered Judas, causing him to betray Jesus. But in John 12:6 he is identified as a thief and had the money box, and used to take what was put into it-- unconfessed sin--so it left him vulnerable to satan tempting with 30 pieces of silver and entering him to betray Christ. We are told that God cannot bear the presence of sin, which is why we cannot enter into His presence but by the blood of Jesus which has covered, blotted our and romoved our sins. Those in the lake of fire have rejected the blood of Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcbsr Posted December 24, 2014 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 415 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 606 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 353 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 24, 2014 Likewise Jesus often speaks of His Father being in Heaven, which carries the same implication. Yet Paul says, "in him we live and move and have our being" Acts 17:28 But God's omnipresence is resolved in the Trinity. Consider by analogy the Sun. The sun as a ball in space is located 93,000,000 miles away. And yet its light and heat exist here. The light may be likened to Jesus and the heat to the Holy Spirit. When one says, "Look at the sun in the sky", they are not referring to the sun, but to the light that comes from the sun. Thus just as people refer to the light that comes from the sun as the sun, so also Jesus said, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted December 24, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.95 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted December 24, 2014 Hell is a place where there is an absence of love. Since God is pure love He cannot be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwalker Posted January 2, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 1,753 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/09/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2015 So, just laying around thinking about omnipresence and I had a few questions. 1) If God is omnipresent, then why does the Bible say that hell is a place where God is not present. Here are the verses I"m looking at: Matt 25:41, 2 Thes 1:7-9, Rev 14:10. I'm not arguing against the omnipresence of God...but seeking some clarification. 2) Omnipresent is something only God in his divine nature possesses.....so why do we say that "Satan is causing us to stumble" or similar statements? ...He certainly can't be messing with me if he's messing with Gertrude in Timbuktu. Hell is not a place, literally speaking. And just because people cannot feel the presence of God, does not mean God is not there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clark thompson Posted January 2, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 154 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 31 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/13/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/12/1986 Share Posted January 2, 2015 So, just laying around thinking about omnipresence and I had a few questions. 1) If God is omnipresent, then why does the Bible say that hell is a place where God is not present. Here are the verses I"m looking at: Matt 25:41, 2 Thes 1:7-9, Rev 14:10. I'm not arguing against the omnipresence of God...but seeking some clarification. 2) Omnipresent is something only God in his divine nature possesses.....so why do we say that "Satan is causing us to stumble" or similar statements? ...He certainly can't be messing with me if he's messing with Gertrude in Timbuktu. 1 God has the power to in hell but chooses not to, God can be everywhere but is only in places He chooses to be. 2 Satan is limited but the effects of sin which he helped bring into the world are often what causes us to stumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant of the Lion Posted January 3, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 23 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 3, 2015 I think Clark Thompson pretty much nailed it. I will add though, God doesn't have to be somewhere to see everything that is going on there and have total knowledge of it. The word "Presence" is often used to describe something that isnt physically there but their influence can still be felt or at least the effects of their influence are still in play there. The Government around tax time for instance. They may not be hiding in your closet, but when you find out how much you owe and start writing that check to them you might say you could feel their presence. I guess what I am trying to say is that there is a "Present" literal and a spirit of the word "Present". I dont think we will be able to fully understand how it works with God until we are joined with him in the next life. Probably not the absolute certain answer you wanted, but it is as close as I could get. Peace be with you brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted January 3, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.95 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted January 3, 2015 Jesus showed Himself to those ( the fallen angels who are chained and those like the rich man etc) in hell/Sheol, but He did it from Paradise. He showed those Angels and Demons that they had lost and He won the victory over the grave and death. But God, who is so Holy, can have nothing to do with sin or darkness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdxp Posted January 11, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 30 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/19/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 11, 2015 I disagree with the idea of God's omnipresence. God is transcendent and has no physical existence. God's sustenance and providence are certainly present in our lives and the world, but He Himself does not exist at all points in the universe. Omnipresence also smacks of pantheism. I take Psalm 139 to mean that, again, God's sustenance and providence are universally present in our affairs, not that He is creeping in the shadows and hiding in the mountains. Other passages used to support omnipresence -- Psalms 11:4-5 for example -- actually confound presence and knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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