Kan Posted January 7, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2015 We can understand to a degree why Christ is our substitute, but how can it be so? How can His death pay for the penalty of the world, let alone His sinless life as the substitute for ours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Dove77 Posted January 7, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 326 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 272 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/07/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2015 Blessings to you... Romans 5:8> But God commanded his love towards us,in that,while we were sinners,Christ died for us.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted January 7, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted January 7, 2015 It's difficult to explain this but you can look at it in a number of different ways. God demanded blood sacrifices to atone for sins. Why? I do not know. Your guess is as good as mine. It always seems odd that the creator of the Universe and all living things would demand that we as living beings would have to kill another living thing in order to pay God for our wrongdoing. Maybe by sacrificing an animal we are giving it back to God as a gift, so to speak. Who knows? If the Bible answers that question, I haven't found it. Unfortunately Satan copies God and it wasn't long before men were sacrificing animals to false gods and worse still they were sometimes killing human beings. If you look at Ancient history you will hardly find a culture of civilisation that hasn't done this, whether it be the Greeks who practiced animal sacrifice at their oracles such as Delphi, the Babylonians, or the Aztecs who had human sacrifices. The only people in Ancient times who sacrificed to the true God were the Jews and they frequently backslided. Muslims still sacrifice to false gods today but don't realise it. Every halal sacrifice involves the shedding of an animal's blood whilst praying to Allah. This is effectively a dedication to Satan. That's why I try to avoid halal meat whenever possible and why God commands us not to dedicate any food at all, not even to him - but instead to offer thanksgiving for the food when it is served and ready to eat. Anyway, I'm guessing that God wanted to end the practice once and for all but do so without going back on his word, so his intention was to create the ultimate sacrifice, the mother of all sacrifices - the sacrifice to end all sacrifices by sacrificing something so pure and holy that its power would cover all future sins for all eternity. He did this by sacrificing his own son and his blood covers us all. Because none of us were alive at the time to see this original sacrifice, all we have to do is believe in our hearts that it happened and that way we can share in God's grace and mercy. That's just my take on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris12870 Posted January 8, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 23 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/20/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/28/1970 Share Posted January 8, 2015 What Oakwood said is similar to what I've read on a site that a poster here showed me. It says that Jesus took upon everyone's sin when he was baptized by John and then his crucifixion paid for all that sin with his blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted January 8, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 It's difficult to explain this but you can look at it in a number of different ways. God demanded blood sacrifices to atone for sins. Why? I do not know. Your guess is as good as mine....the sacrifice to end all sacrifices by sacrificing something so pure and holy that its power would cover all future sins for all eternity. He did this by sacrificing his own son and his blood covers us all. Because none of us were alive at the time to see this original sacrifice, all we have to do is believe in our hearts that it happened and that way we can share in God's grace and mercy. That's just my take on it. Yes, it is a difficult question, and I am wondering if the answer might be what gave the early Christian church its power, Paul talks about the depth, height and width of eternal love, and the mystery of all ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted January 8, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 What Oakwood said is similar to what I've read on a site that a poster here showed me. It says that Jesus took upon everyone's sin when he was baptized by John and then his crucifixion paid for all that sin with his blood. It is truly amazing, and little understood by the world that Jesus has paid for all sins. When someone is innocent how can they legally pay for someone else? It is not possible legally is it, and then we have the physical aspect, how does the substitution work if the substitute is the source of Life? The answer of how Christ atones must satisfy the legal aspect and the natural aspect. So far I cannot see how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted January 8, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Blessings to you... Romans 5:8> But God commanded his love towards us,in that,while we were sinners,Christ died for us.... That goes without saying to all Christians, His death saves you from His own punishment for sin, why not delete the punishment all together? Why is that not possible? As the Bible says "without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sin" Sin is totally inadmissible at any time in any circumstance, there is no leeway with God and sin. We can understand that, if we accept that God is perfect and cannot grant life to imperfection - because that would cause suffering. But why does the innocent have to suffer and die in our case? Edited January 8, 2015 by Kan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted January 8, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 8, 2015 To begin to understand, one needs to start with realizing that the life is in the blood (Genesis 9; Leviticus 17; Deuteronomy 12). The life, or blood Jesus shed, is what covers our sins. To understand the question about why He suffered, it is easier to accept when we also understand that our life here on earthy is no more then a vapor in time, as stated in James 4:14b For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away. His suffering was just a fraction of time, done from His pure love to us, when compared to eternity. Your question encompasses all of who God is and there is no one post explanation, but a life time of study to only scratch the surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavey.online Posted January 9, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 158 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 77 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/23/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1977 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Jesus punished, but not sinned ... Literally, there was an injustice given to Jesus ... Equivalence to that, father provide anything Jesus asked to Him ... But Jesus not asked any other thing, but only the salvation of His beloved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clark thompson Posted January 9, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 154 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 31 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/13/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/12/1986 Share Posted January 9, 2015 We can understand to a degree why Christ is our substitute, but how can it be so? How can His death pay for the penalty of the world, let alone His sinless life as the substitute for ours? In God's plan blood shed can cover sins if the lamb is without blemish, Jesus was a perfect lamb and those who receive Him will receive forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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