Hall7 Posted February 19, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,385 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 491 Days Won: 5 Joined: 04/25/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2015 Amen Sevenseas well explained and Shiloh see post #40. I'm very surprise at your reaction about tongues Shiloh, you're so knowledgeable with scriptures but didnt realize you were missing something (inside)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted February 19, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2015 ...didnt realize you were missing something (inside)... How can anyone be "missing something (inside)" if an individual is born again and has received the GIFT of the Holy Spirit, the GIFT of eternal life, the GIFT of Christ within, the GIFT of the New Birth, the GIFT of justification by faith, the GIFT of sanctification by the indwelling Holy Spirit, and the GIFT of the Word of God. It is erroneous to teach that believers are not COMPLETE in Christ. Yes they are commanded to be "filled" with the Spirit, but that filling is evident by the "fruits" of the Spirit, and as Paul says, the greatest GIFT of the Spirit, which is AGAPE (love). It is incorrect to teach that the evidence of the filling of the Spirit is the gift of tongues. Notice what the true evidence is (Acts 4:31): And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall7 Posted February 19, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,385 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 491 Days Won: 5 Joined: 04/25/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2015 ...didnt realize you were missing something (inside)... How can anyone be "missing something (inside)" if an individual is born again and has received the GIFT of the Holy Spirit, the GIFT of eternal life, the GIFT of Christ within, the GIFT of the New Birth, the GIFT of justification by faith, the GIFT of sanctification by the indwelling Holy Spirit, and the GIFT of the Word of God. It is erroneous to teach that believers are not COMPLETE in Christ. Yes they are commanded to be "filled" with the Spirit, but that filling is evident by the "fruits" of the Spirit, and as Paul says, the greatest GIFT of the Spirit, which is AGAPE (love). It is incorrect to teach that the evidence of the filling of the Spirit is the gift of tongues. Notice what the true evidence is (Acts 4:31): And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. What makes you think that's what I meant? It isn't... I personaly don't speak in tongues, but through the gift of "discernment" I respect the ones who do because I know it comes from God. Post #40... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall7 Posted February 19, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,385 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 491 Days Won: 5 Joined: 04/25/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2015 I don't understand what it is that some don't understand about praying in tongues. I mean how clear can it be, Sevenseas hit it on the nail with this explanation: I Cor. distinctly uses the phrase PRAYING IN TONGUES and your response is simply to dismiss this fact. The chapter is comparing the gift of prophecy and the gift of speaking in tongues (V 2-5) as follows: Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongueadoes not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,b but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,c unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified. Here, we clearly see that people do speak in tongues to God, without interpretation and not as a sign to unbelievers. Speaking to God in tongues is not a sign to unbelievers. You indicate that tongues are only a sign for unbelievers but the Bible says something very different from what you state Paul says he would like everyone he is writing to, to speak in tongues. Should everyone start speaking in tongues in church with no interpretation? Well, that would seem to go against doing everything decently and in order and allowing people to speak one at a time...3 at the most. Speaking in tongues...that is when alone and worshipping or singing apparently edifies the one employing that gift through the endowment of the Holy Spirit. Its the most natural thing when a person is filled with the Holy Spirit ..and again do not confuse this with being sealed by the Holy Spirit when one is born again. So Paul actually puts a great value on the personal use of tongues. V 14 of this same chapter is the verse that plainly addresses praying in tongues in a manner that suggests this is a common occurence.This verse has been interpreted that way in almost every Bible published as I have already posted... there are Bibles on that list I never heard of, yet each one attests to the same thing...praying in tongues is IN the Bible and you cannot take it out of there. It's in black and white in the Bible and very clear. What is it that some have against praying in tongues? It's true that there are some faking it out there but there are the ones who don't, and the only way to find that out is to attend a church who honestly uses the gift of tongues. Check it out for a couple of services, you need to see it and feel it for yourselves that's all I can say... Love you all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 The modern Charismatic babble is the kind of erroneous ecstatic babble and gibberish that Paul was teaching against in I Cor. 14. In the book of Acts, tongue was used for preaching the Gospel. That's why it is a sign for unbelievers. There is nothing about ecstatic unintelligible gibberish that leads anyone to Christ. The Church at Corinth was a problem church in that they had a bad habit of mixing the paganism they came out of with their new found faith. That's why Paul had to tell the men who used to be temple prostitutes to cut their hair and stop looking feminine. It's why Paul had to instruct them against getting drunk at communion. They were using drunkenness, which was common in pagan worship, in their worship of God. That's what's happening at Corinth. There is both ancient and modern accounts of pagans using such ecstatic babble, not the least of which was the oracles at Delphi. Even today, this kind of stuff is present in Buddhism and Hinduism. The Kundalini cult in India is a good example of this. Now he turns to the manifestation of this babble and ecstatic nonsense they were engaging in. This was something common to their paganism as well. It's what Jesus was referring to when he talked about the vain repetitions that the Gentiles used. I have been in service where people were, over and over and over saying these same unintelligible phrases again and again and calling it "tongues." Everyone around me was praying intelligibly and gyrating and shaking and jumping and other such stuff, and it was just chaotic. There was nothing about it that was edifying in the least. it looked crazy. The Bible doesn't mention a private prayer language and I Cor. 14:2-5 isn't talking about that either. There is no prayer ever recorded in the Bible nothing on prayer in the Bible that indicates that God wants, or needs for us to pray in a way that is unintelligible to us. Paul, in none of his teachings and exhortations on prayer, instructs us on praying in tongues. He mentions, intercession, supplication, adoration, but never praying in gibberish or unintelligibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted February 19, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2015 Shiloh...you appear to be in denial. The more you state the Bible does not have any reference to speaking or praying in tongues, the more you draw attention to the fact it does. Anyway, this thread is unfortuneatly going in circles and maybe it is time it was closed. There is both ancient and modern accounts of pagans using such ecstatic babble, not the least of which was the oracles at Delphi. Even today, this kind of stuff is present in Buddhism and Hinduism. The Kundalini cult in India is a good example of this. How is it that you concede to this and yet deny CHRISTIANS who are filled with the Holy Spirit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1to3 Posted February 19, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 139 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,228 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 3,076 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2015 It was my understanding that their are two types of speaking in tongues, one is from another "known language" and the other kind is a unknown language only understood by God, so that the devils cannot understand. From The Living Bible -Paraphrased- Self-HelpEdition 1Corinthian14:2 But if your gift is that of being able to "speak in tongues", that is to speak in languages you haven't learned, you will be talking to God but not to others, since they won't be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit but it will be a secret. 3-But one who proĥesies, preaching the message of God, is helping others grow in the Lord, encouraging and comforting them. 4-So a person "speaking in tongues" help himself grow spiritually, but one who prophesies, preaching messages from god, helps the entire church grow in holiness abd hapiness The KingJames version : 1 Corinthians 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3- But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation to men, 4-He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. The above shilow357 was what I was trying to say . shiloh357, on 14 Feb 2015 - 7:23 PM, said: the idea of two types of tongues, one being a human language and one being a supernatural language, is not supported in the Greek of the New Testament. alisonm328, on 31 Jan 2015 - 12:12 AM, said: Is this verse speaking of praying in tongues?And is there anyone with a lot of experience with speaking in tongues that would be willing to chat through email because I have a lot of questions about it? From my understanding Ephesians 6:18 is explaining to us how to effectively pray :IN THE SPIRIT of GOD. Asking God for anything in line with what the Holy Spirit of Gods wishes. What the Holy Spirit of God wishes for us is written in the Holy Bible. So when we pray, our prayers need to be aligned with what is written in His Word. The Living Bible-paraphrased- Self Help Edition- Ephesian 6:18 18-Pray all the time. ask God for anything in line with the Holy Spirit"s wishes. Plead with him,reminding Him of your needs and praying earnestly for all Christians everywhere. King James version: Ephesians 6:18 18- Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to the end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints. In Ephesians ch6, Paul is explaining to us that we do not only wrestle with flesh and blood but also with the evil spirit world. Paul teaches us as Christians in chapter 6 HOW TO arm ourselves everyday. Praying to God everyday is part of applying the armor of God in our lives. Ephesian 6:18 is about praying to God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Sevenseas, my point is that the "tongues" being manifested in charismatic churches is the same paganism that is seen in false religions. I am not conceding anything. False religions have same kind of meaningless gibberish that Jesus tells us not engage in. evidently, the Charismatics don't read that commandment from Jesus. And you still haven't actually shown anything that talks about some private prayer languages. You have proof texts that you impose that on, but no actual passages that expressly mention a private prayer language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall7 Posted February 20, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,385 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 491 Days Won: 5 Joined: 04/25/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2015 Shiloh- You said: " the "tongues" being manifested in charismatic churches is the same paganism that is seen in false religions." Are you saying that speaking in tongues is a pagan thing to do? If one is a pagan wouldn't it be easily recognized by someone guided by the Holy Spirit? Would they let a person like this be a moderator on a Christian website? That's why Onelight is still here as a mod, because he is guided by the Holy Spirit, and in addition, he also speaks in tongues. It doesn't make one a better Christian than an other to speak in tongues, and it doesn't make one a lesser Christian than another to not speak in tongues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Hall, what I am saying is that gibberish that is manifested in the Charismatic movement is fundamentally no different than the gibberish that occurs in modern pagan religions and even in ancient pagan religions where unintelligible babble was "interpreted" by a pagan priest. Speaking in tongues is not pagan, but what we see today happening in Charismatic circles isn't the biblical gift of speaking in tongues, which was only used for evangelism in Scripture and every place where the gift is recorded as being manifest was only ever speaking in a known foreign tongue. There is no heavenly language being uttered and there is no private prayer language ever mentioned in the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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