Asking for help from those who don't believe the blood moons mean

[Babbler]

Sounds like Kabbalism creeping into Christianity.

 

Blood moons and darkened suns  are apocalyptic imagery of destruction. Not meant to portend of a future event. Many Christian sects misuse the imagery. It is a visual symbol of war and its consequences of death and misery. Imagine watching everything set ablaze: fields, house, towns and mountains.  The sky becomes darkened and the moon blood red. Pure foolishness to even worry about red moons. They are an environmental consequence. 

[Keith]

 

All I ask is that you state your opinions, thoughts, feelings, and studies with references and evidence. 

This is just another one of those date-setting fads trying to pin down the Second Coming of Christ.  This is another attempt to reap profits by sensationalizing Bible prophecy and set dates (which is forbidden). We should disregard all this talk about "blood moons" and Shemitahs, and here's the reason why:

 

1. All the cosmic disturbances and cataclysmic events described in the Olivet Discourse and in Revelation occur IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Great Tribulation (Mt 24:29; Mk 13:24,25).  Also, the moon being turned to "blood" is described as the moon being "darkened" ("the moon shall not give her light" Mt 24:29; Mk 13:24) so we really don't know exactly what the appearance of the moon will be.

 

2. The Great Tribulation is in the second half of Daniel's 70th week (7 years), AFTER the Abomination of Desolation is set up (Mt 24:15-22).

 

3. The Abomination of Desolation is set up by the Antichrist (the Beast or the Man of Sin), who cannot take control of this earth along with Satan until AFTER the Holy Spirit removes His restraint (holding down) of Satan (2 Thess 2:6,7) and is "taken out of the way" (along with the Church).

 

4. The Holy Spirit was sent down to gather in all believers (both Jew and Gentile) into the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13), and this will continue UNTIL "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Rom 11:25).  Since we are still in the day of grace, and God is still saving souls, the building of the Church is still incomplete.

 

5. Once the Church is complete it will be "caught up" to Heaven and removed from this earth BEFORE  the Antichrist is revealed (1 Thess 4:13- 5:11; 2 Thess 2: 1-12).  When the Antichrist is revealed God will send "strong delusion" upon the ungodly so that they will believe the lies of Satan and be damned.  This can only happen after the day of grace is over.

 

6.  The Second Coming of Christ will coincide with the end of Daniel's 70th week when Satan gathers all the armies of the world against Jerusalem for the battle of Armageddon (Rev 16:13-16), when all Christ's enemies are destroyed.  Those cosmic disturbances will occur just before the return of Christ (Mt 24:30,31).

 

 

Thank you for responding, Ezra.  I appreciate you taking the time and thought to type out your analysis. 

 

In all fairness, in your intro, I don't think you can factually state that with any evidence.  I respect your opinion, but I don't think you know the motives of the people behind this to be able to say that.  Yes, they've sold books, but so has Charles Spurgeon and other respected men of God.  So, to that end, I don't want to judge the motives of another.  Keeping my own in check is a full-time job!

 

To #1.  I agree.  The overwhelming majority of celestial signs spoken of in the New Testament speak directly to those that will be displayed during the tribulation period as signs of Jesus' second coming.  However, that doesn't mean that every celestial sign will/must happen during the tribulation period.  As I've stated, Genesis 1:14 is clear that God uses them as signs.  Period.  Not just during the last days or the tribulation period.  Because God has used them as signs in the past, it's not unreasonable to consider that He still uses them as signs or warnings. 

 

To #2.  I agree.  But this has nothing to do with my topic.  As I've clearly stated several times, I'm not talking about the blood moon tetrad being a sign of the end times, but as a warning regarding Israel.

 

To #3, 4, and 5.  These points are in regard to the rapture and the tribulation period which, again, isn't what I'm after.  What I'm interested in from those who disagree with the blood moon tetrad meaning anything at all, is to present evidence that refutes the information (dates and events in documented history) given in the videos I've referred to. 

 

Once again, I ask this as not as a challenge, but a sincere desire to learn without being led astray.  I've done my own studies on this for a considerable period of time.  I've done this in fasting and prayer because I want truth, not hype.  It's been my practice to study, fast and pray about something I'm studying and then go to the brethren for Godly counsel to compare notes.  If people haven't studied it, then I understand.  But, if those who disagree with the study (without taking time to really look into it, or fast and pray), simply disagree out of their opinion and what "sounds right" to them, then that's useless to me.  I just don't see the wisdom in flat out rejecting something of great possible significance based on nothing but my own thoughts and feelings. 

 

EDITED TO ADD:  I've been thinking about something lately and your post reminded me of it.  Where is date setting "forbidden" in the scriptures?  I couldn't find any scripture that forbids it.  That's an example of how easily man falls into creating his own doctrines, adding to (or taking away) from the scriptures. 

 

Now, before anyone gets their fingers flying across the keyboard in response, hear me out.  I'm not a date setter and I believe that in principle, the Bible doesn't encourage or advise date setting.  Acts 1:7 says, "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by His own authority."  That's good enough for me.  I don't need any man's dissertation to understand that or obey it.  It's straight-forward and easy to understand.  There are several scriptures with similar statements.  My point is, that scripture nowhere states that it's "forbidden" to set dates.  It's just not wise, possible, or for us to know.  The rapture is an imminent event, without signs.  We, as Christians are instructed to "watch" and "be ready" at all times.  That's wisdom.

[Keith]

Sounds like Kabbalism creeping into Christianity.

 

Blood moons and darkened suns  are apocalyptic imagery of destruction. Not meant to portend of a future event. Many Christian sects misuse the imagery. It is a visual symbol of war and its consequences of death and misery. Imagine watching everything set ablaze: fields, house, towns and mountains.  The sky becomes darkened and the moon blood red. Pure foolishness to even worry about red moons. They are an environmental consequence. 

 

While I respect your right to believe what you want about it, you've given no evidence to back-up anything in your comment.  These are all your thoughts and feelings from your own point of view.  Indeed, you've even ignored scripture and documented history.  Thanks for taking the time to comment, though. 

[ThomasSGibson]

^{Call me skeptical but I don't recall ever hearing one word about tetrads, four blood moons or the Shemitah before The Harbinger came out a year or so ago.  Am I mistaken in this?}

I'm skeptical too. The problem for me is that the Bible mentions much more than just blood moons, it also mentions: the sun being darkened, a great earthquake, the start of heaven falling, etc. As far as I can see from Joel and Revelation these signs all occur at about the same time. There is so much time being devoted to one sign to the exclusion of all the others. 

 

These things have not happened yet. The blood moons are not occurring with the other signs. And btw, it is my opinion that the blood moon cannot be an eclipse. It is impossible for the moon and the sun to be darkened at the same time. A lunar and solar eclipse just cannot occur at about the same time.

 

Rev 6:12  And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 

Rev 6:13  And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 

Rev 6:14  And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 

Rev 6:15  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 

[Keith]

 

^{Call me skeptical but I don't recall ever hearing one word about tetrads, four blood moons or the Shemitah before The Harbinger came out a year or so ago.  Am I mistaken in this?}

I'm skeptical too. The problem for me is that the Bible mentions much more than just blood moons, it also mentions: the sun being darkened, a great earthquake, the start of heaven falling, etc. As far as I can see from Joel and Revelation these signs all occur at about the same time. There is so much time being devoted to one sign to the exclusion of all the others. 

 

These things have not happened yet. The blood moons are not occurring with the other signs. And btw, it is my opinion that the blood moon cannot be an eclipse. It is impossible for the moon and the sun to be darkened at the same time. A lunar and solar eclipse just cannot occur at about the same time.

 

Rev 6:12  And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 

Rev 6:13  And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 

Rev 6:14  And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 

Rev 6:15  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 

 

 

Again, to clarify, I'm not saying the blood moons are a sign of the end times.  (Although I'm not saying they aren't either.)  My focus here, if you read through the thread, is that they are warning signs to Israel and other countries who try to come against her and divide her.    What I'm looking for from skeptics is to disprove the evidence and history given in the videos I've mentioned.  If there's nothing to the blood moon tetrad, then disproving the information/history in the videos shouldn't be difficult.  Also again, I ask this sincerely, not as a hissy fit challenge.

 

I respect people's skepticism.  I truly do.  But, I would hope people are wise enough to not stop there and examine it for themselves.  Skepticism isn't facts.  Also, if the information given in the videos is true, then it most certainly warrants our time and efforts to study and pray about, especially in the days we're living in.  To ignore it shows a complete lack of discernment at the least.  A lack of wisdom at the most.

 

I took that time (over a year) to study, fast and pray about it.  I'm convinced that 2015 is going to catch the world off-guard.  And, sadly, many Christians, too.  It's also not a coincidence that the Holy Spirit has placed a sense of urgency in my spirit concerning our time left here.  I realize that means nothing to anyone here because you don't know me, and that's fine.  But, as a Christian for almost 32 years, I know how the Holy Spirit works in my life and this is unmistakable. 

[ThomasSGibson]

 

 

^{Call me skeptical but I don't recall ever hearing one word about tetrads, four blood moons or the Shemitah before The Harbinger came out a year or so ago.  Am I mistaken in this?}

I'm skeptical too. The problem for me is that the Bible mentions much more than just blood moons, it also mentions: the sun being darkened, a great earthquake, the start of heaven falling, etc. As far as I can see from Joel and Revelation these signs all occur at about the same time. There is so much time being devoted to one sign to the exclusion of all the others. 

 

These things have not happened yet. The blood moons are not occurring with the other signs. And btw, it is my opinion that the blood moon cannot be an eclipse. It is impossible for the moon and the sun to be darkened at the same time. A lunar and solar eclipse just cannot occur at about the same time.

 

Rev 6:12  And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 

Rev 6:13  And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 

Rev 6:14  And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 

Rev 6:15  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 

 

 

Again, to clarify, I'm not saying the blood moons are a sign of the end times.  (Although I'm not saying they aren't either.)  My focus here, if you read through the thread, is that they are warning signs to Israel and other countries who try to come against her and divide her.    What I'm looking for from skeptics is to disprove the evidence and history given in the videos I've mentioned.  If there's nothing to the blood moon tetrad, then disproving the information/history in the videos shouldn't be difficult.  Also again, I ask this sincerely, not as a hissy fit challenge.

 

I respect people's skepticism.  I truly do.  But, I would hope people are wise enough to not stop there and examine it for themselves.  Skepticism isn't facts.  Also, if the information given in the videos is true, then it most certainly warrants our time and efforts to study and pray about, especially in the days we're living in.  To ignore it shows a complete lack of discernment at the least.  A lack of wisdom at the most.

 

I took that time (over a year) to study, fast and pray about it.  I'm convinced that 2015 is going to catch the world off-guard.  And, sadly, many Christians, too.  It's also not a coincidence that the Holy Spirit has placed a sense of urgency in my spirit concerning our time left here.  I realize that means nothing to anyone here because you don't know me, and that's fine.  But, as a Christian for almost 32 years, I know how the Holy Spirit works in my life and this is unmistakable. 

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree. I cannot get past the grouping of the signs in the Bible. They are grouped together. One sign from the group does not mean anything. It is the whole set of signs. So I would not agree that these are signs of the end times.

 

I do realize that this was not a challenge. Just thought it should be pointed out. God bless

[Keith]

 

 

I do realize that this was not a challenge. Just thought it should be pointed out. God bless

 

 

 

 

And I appreciate that you did, Thomas.  Most of the scripture mentions of the moon and sun turning dark, it's during the tribulation period before the second coming of Jesus.  That's why I completely understand people's skepticism.  But, I think to stop there and disregard it without taking other scriptures into account that talk about the sun, moon and stars being used as signs (as well as documented history itself), isn't being thorough. 

 

I'm not out to "be right," especially at anyone's expense.  I just want the truth, no matter what it is.  If I'm wrong about this, then I'm willing to be wrong and completely embarrassed if necessary, as long as I get the truth out of it.  I'd rather be embarrassed by genuine earnestness than embarrassed because I didn't try very hard to look into it only to learn it was true after all. 

 

Thanks again for the scriptures -- always a welcomed site!

[Ezra]

 I just want the truth, no matter what it is.  If I'm wrong about this, then I'm willing to be wrong and completely embarrassed if necessary, as long as I get the truth out of it. 

The truth is that no matter what the Preterists believe, the Abomination of Desolation is yet future, therefore the Great Tribulation is also in the future, and consequently all the cataclysmic cosmic events which are IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Great Tribulation (Mt 24:29) are also in the future.

 

All this talk of "blood moons" (from John Hagee etc.) while the Lord is still building His Church is another way to deflect Christians from their primary focus -- Christ and the Gospel.

 

BTW John Hagee is not a very sound preacher, more like a false teacher.  Note his words: "If you were to go to youtube.com2 you can hear where Dr. Hagee speaks regarding his book and says his book, In Defense of Israel, will prove that "Jesus did not come to Earth to be the Messiah," (20 seconds in) and that " . . . since Jesus refused by word and deed to claim to be the Messiah how can the Jews be blamed for rejecting what was never offered?" (32 seconds in). Obviously, this is a huge problem.https://carm.org/john-hagee-denies-jesus-claimed-to-be-the-messiah.

 

What does Scripture say? (Mt 2:1-6):

¹ Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

² Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

³ When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.

⁴ And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.

⁵ And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,

⁶ And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel. [they conveniently forgot to quote the rest of this prophecy which is] whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

 

Even those Gentile wise men knew that Jesus was the Messiah.  Even Herod , the chief priests, and scribes knew this.  But John Hagee denies it.

[hmbld]

 

 

All this talk of "blood moons" (from John Hagee etc.) while the Lord is still building His Church is another way to deflect Christians from their primary focus -- Christ and the Gospel.

 

 

 

As I see it, talking about the "blood moons" is talking about signs in the heavens given to us, and while it may be a deflection, it can also instill a sense of urgency to work all the more diligently.  As for the rest of your post, that is new to me, thanks.

[pomegran]

 

 

 

All this talk of "blood moons" (from John Hagee etc.) while the Lord is still building His Church is another way to deflect Christians from their primary focus -- Christ and the Gospel.

 

 

 

As I see it, talking about the "blood moons" is talking about signs in the heavens given to us, and while it may be a deflection, it can also instill a sense of urgency to work all the more diligently. 

 

 

I have to agree that Christians are exercising freedom in looking into these things if they so desire. If a Christian is focused only on these "blood moons" at the expense of everything else, then that is not good. However I personally think a lot of us are aware that nothing is definite until God has revealed it to us, thus we keep a more balanced perspective and still pursue what the Gospel has/is teaching us, perhaps with more urgency as hmbld stated.